Rumor: Alex Pietrangelo discussion #2- Will it happen?

[kb]

I disagree. They went the max games in their series losses the last 3 years. It's not like they've been an easy out. The difference between our losses and a deep playoff run might be as small as a single win.

I think the team can win as they are, let alone with some small improvements. Just a full year without Babcock might be the difference.

It just doesn't move the needle enough IMO. If you want to solve the D issue, there is an elite talent potentially available for nothing but money.

And the players you move out to fit in Pietrangelo will being back assets. Whereas trading for Manson - whose reputation nowadays far exceeds his actual play - will cost valuable assets and is counterproductive. Plus Anaheim is capped out and only have one other RD on their roster.

Hamonic is currently not as good as Holl even. There is a reason that Calgary - who needs RD - is moving on from him. Tanev played the full season, but has a lengthy injury history.

 

[qqaz]

It just doesn't move the needle enough IMO. If you want to solve the D issue, there is an elite talent potentially available for nothing but money.

And the players you move out to fit in Pietrangelo will being back assets. Whereas trading for Manson - whose reputation nowadays far exceeds his actual play - will cost valuable assets and is counterproductive. Plus Anaheim is capped out and only have one other RD on their roster.

Hamonic is currently not as good as Holl even. There is a reason that Calgary - who needs RD - is moving on from him. Tanev played the full season, but has a lengthy injury history.

Well I clearly like Manson more than you do. But I won't argue that here. I was just tossing some names, not suggesting these guys, and these guys only.

Pietrangelo does cost more than money, though. He would cost cap space, and he would cost depth. Both could be perilous.

I get your point about getting a return on the players we move out. And I don't think it's impossible to make it work. Just that there are definitely options.

Adding Pietrangelo while moving Andersen/Kerf/Dermott could be a serious problem.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

I'd rather spend the money on two defence-men making less than 5 Million. The team is too top-heavy as is, and we need to get meaner on the back end, skill is nice, but we have too much as is. Time to add a different element.

I.e.

Trade Nylander for Pesce & Small Add
Trade Johnsson, Liljigren & 2nd/3rd for Manson OR Sign Hamonic/Dillon (if Dillon can play RD)

Rielly - Manson/Hamonic/Dillon
Muzzin - Pesce
Lehtonen/Sandin - Holl

Build around Matthews, Marner & Tavares up front, fill the bottom 6 with sub $2 M role players like Tampa has done

I.e.

Crouse/Anderson - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Hyman
Soup/Engvall/Crouse - Larsson - Simmonds
Lemieux/Clifford/Martin/Johnston - Grant - Spezza

 

[Bluelines]

It just doesn't move the needle enough IMO. If you want to solve the D issue, there is an elite talent potentially available for nothing but money.

And the players you move out to fit in Pietrangelo will being back assets. Whereas trading for Manson - whose reputation nowadays far exceeds his actual play - will cost valuable assets and is counterproductive. Plus Anaheim is capped out and only have one other RD on their roster.

Hamonic is currently not as good as Holl even. There is a reason that Calgary - who needs RD - is moving on from him. Tanev played the full season, but has a lengthy injury history.

Right and only one guy is going to fix our defensive issues, have you ever watch hockey game? So say Pietro gets hurt next year, and he is out multiple games, how does our defence look then?

Those assets you think we will be getting back for assets we move, do they have a salary? Cause if they do, say goodbye to Rielly, Hyman and Andersen. You're inferring that that return talent would come at a cheaper price than what we are sending out, why would a team send good talent that has a low cap hit out, for good talent that has a higher cap hit, ya kinda got a big hole in your thought process.

You live in a wonderful fantasy world ... EA Sports get in the game

 

[egd27]

He is free in terms of assets necessary to acquire him. The assets necessary to acquire a player like this outside of free agency would be significant.

That is not a loss of asset. That is a transformation of that asset value into a different form.

so no assets necessary in sentence one

a transformation of assets in sentence two

ok then, good talk

 

[Bluelines]

If they don't move WN or MM it's a completely emotional, reactionary move.

It's an XBOX EA SPORTS NHL 2020 move to have that many players above 10 million. Not many teams have TWO, we could potentially have 4 players above 10 mil ... insanity...

The people who want to sign AP see it as all lolipops and gumdrops.. no negative repercussions... go to Armchair-GM - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps try to build yourself a team, with AP on it at say 9.5 mil per year. Do it honestly, like don't trade AJ for Hughes... it is next to impossible with out moving Andersen and Nylander. With the number of shots we give up a game, do you want Campbell starting 65 games? cause that is the likely hood, cause not many teams are giving up 1A starters with low cap hits... maybe we can trade Andersen for Hart straight up...

 

[Trapper]

It's an XBOX EA SPORTS NHL 2020 move to have that many players above 10 million. Not many teams have TWO, we could potentially have 4 players above 10 mil ... insanity...

The people who want to sign AP see it as all lolipops and gumdrops.. no negative repercussions... go to Armchair-GM - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps try to build yourself a team, with AP on it at say 9.5 mil per year. Do it honestly, like don't trade AJ for Hughes... it is next to impossible with out moving Andersen and Nylander. With the number of shots we give up a game, do you want Campbell starting 65 games? cause that is the likely hood, cause not many teams are giving up 1A starters with low cap hits... maybe we can trade Andersen for Hart straight up...

If you sign AP the core has to change.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

He is free in terms of assets necessary to acquire him. The assets necessary to acquire a player like this outside of free agency would be significant.

That is not a loss of asset. That is a transformation of that asset value into a different form.

Yeah well this asset will be a full no movement clause. Then its not a asset its a liability

 

[Wafflewhipper]

It's an XBOX EA SPORTS NHL 2020 move to have that many players above 10 million. Not many teams have TWO, we could potentially have 4 players above 10 mil ... insanity...

The people who want to sign AP see it as all lolipops and gumdrops.. no negative repercussions... go to Armchair-GM - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps try to build yourself a team, with AP on it at say 9.5 mil per year. Do it honestly, like don't trade AJ for Hughes... it is next to impossible with out moving Andersen and Nylander. With the number of shots we give up a game, do you want Campbell starting 65 games? cause that is the likely hood, cause not many teams are giving up 1A starters with low cap hits... maybe we can trade Andersen for Hart straight up...

Moves galore would be needed when you change your core. Andersen not being part of the core is a juggling act, center ring of the circus quality stuff. Hard to call a core a core when you ate having to swap out your #1 goalie to do it.
I could do a roster and many trades to fit him in. It would completely change the composition of the team and style of play to top 6 bottom 6. Its a big pile of complicated to do fictionally let alone realistically.

 

[stickty111]

I'd rather spend the money on two defence-men making less than 5 Million. The team is too top-heavy as is, and we need to get meaner on the back end, skill is nice, but we have too much as is. Time to add a different element.

I.e.

Trade Nylander for Pesce & Small Add
Trade Johnsson, Liljigren & 2nd/3rd for Manson OR Sign Hamonic/Dillon (if Dillon can play RD)

Rielly - Manson/Hamonic/Dillon
Muzzin - Pesce
Lehtonen/Sandin - Holl

Build around Matthews, Marner & Tavares up front, fill the bottom 6 with sub $2 M role players like Tampa has done

I.e.

Crouse/Anderson - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Hyman
Soup/Engvall/Crouse - Larsson - Simmonds
Lemieux/Clifford/Martin/Johnston - Grant - Spezza

You just added too much grit now. We aren't getting much depth scoring with that roster.
Trading Liljegren straight up is too much for Manson and you added in Johnsson and a 2nd/3rd? Thats really bad value for us. Manson also isn't great with only one good season. I'm fine with him but it needs to be a decently low price, otherwise no thanks

 

[ToneDog]

It's an XBOX EA SPORTS NHL 2020 move to have that many players above 10 million. Not many teams have TWO, we could potentially have 4 players above 10 mil ... insanity...

The people who want to sign AP see it as all lolipops and gumdrops.. no negative repercussions... go to Armchair-GM - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps try to build yourself a team, with AP on it at say 9.5 mil per year. Do it honestly, like don't trade AJ for Hughes... it is next to impossible with out moving Andersen and Nylander. With the number of shots we give up a game, do you want Campbell starting 65 games? cause that is the likely hood, cause not many teams are giving up 1A starters with low cap hits... maybe we can trade Andersen for Hart straight up...

Relax, I am sure it is all under control. Dubas has a plan and it does not involve Campbell playing 65 games. The unveiling of the plan starts soon.

 

[Warden of the North]

Yes

 

[Nylanderthal]

It's an XBOX EA SPORTS NHL 2020 move to have that many players above 10 million. Not many teams have TWO, we could potentially have 4 players above 10 mil ... insanity...

The people who want to sign AP see it as all lolipops and gumdrops.. no negative repercussions... go to Armchair-GM - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps try to build yourself a team, with AP on it at say 9.5 mil per year. Do it honestly, like don't trade AJ for Hughes... it is next to impossible with out moving Andersen and Nylander. With the number of shots we give up a game, do you want Campbell starting 65 games? cause that is the likely hood, cause not many teams are giving up 1A starters with low cap hits... maybe we can trade Andersen for Hart straight up...

FWIW Petro isn’t getting 9.5... St.L is rumoured to be in the 7x8 range so we don’t even have to pony up extra to cover the 8th year. If reports are correct we just have to be in the 7x8.5 area with a blank slate for structure for him to design how he sees fit.
You can easily fit him this year by dropping 2 of three between Andersen Kerfoot and AJ

 

[Dekes For Days]

so no assets necessary in sentence one
a transformation of assets in sentence two

Signing Pietrangelo is gaining an elite asset, and requires no loss of assets, like it normally would to acquire a player like that. Subsequent moves for existing pieces does not require losing asset value. It's not that complicated.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Signing Pietrangelo is gaining an elite asset, and requires no loss of assets/asset value, like it normally would to acquire a player like that. It's not that complicated.

Cap space use is a asset too.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah well this asset will be a full no movement clause. Then its not a asset its a liability

We don't want to move him. We want him on the team. He's an asset.

Cap space use is a asset too.

Cap space allows you to acquire or keep assets. It has the potential to create asset value, but it itself is not an asset. Pietrangelo is the biggest value asset we could get from the use of that cap space.

 

[Dekes For Days]

try to build yourself a team, with AP on it at say 9.5 mil per year.

Nobody is talking about signing Pietrangelo for 9.5m.

With the number of shots we give up a game

You mean a league average amount with a decimated defense that didn't feature Pietrangelo?

do you want Campbell starting 65 games?

We're not likely to even play 65 games next year, let alone have Campbell start that many.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The Leafs roster will not look anywhere close to the same if Pietrangelo signs with us. It will say I don’t like my team from management because it will be gutted to do this deal. It’s getting a elite RHD.
It’s unfathomable as a fan that doesn’t no insider info to even contemplate constructing a roster with him.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

We don't want to move him. We want him on the team. He's an asset.

Cap space allows you to acquire or keep assets. It has the potential to create asset value, but it itself is not an asset. Pietrangelo is the biggest value asset we could get from the use of that cap space.

Good don’t trade anyone and go get him. Can’t get him without and can’t keep everyone if you do. Its not free. Its going to cost assets being moved to do it right now

 

[Dekes For Days]

Good don’t trade anyone and go get him. Can’t get him without and can’t keep everyone if you do. Its not free

Any moves we make afterwards will return fair assets. The acquisition of Pietrangelo is free.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Any moves we make afterwards will return fair assets. The acquisition of Pietrangelo is free.

Still really gonna hogtie the balance of the salary cap structure on the rest of the roster. Robertson,Dermott,Rielly,Mikheyev etc. If Barabanov,Lehtonen play well at $925,000 how do you re-up them. Potentially having to arrange trades for Andersen,Kerfoot,Johnsson. Hyman will be needing more money etc.
It will take one year and the headaches start. Morgan Rielly’s contract in two becomes a nightmare. Might as well just trade him right away. Thats sideways. This will cause so much upheaval. That said, we don’t need a $10,000,000 third line and all go far as i view it. Still tough cap decisions are are forced. Trading Andersen being seen as a collateral to signing him and accepted is flawed unless a equal quality tender is coming back in the trade. Kuemper for example. Still that only pushes the cap problems down the road a extra year etc. This could get ugly

 

[Gabriel426]

So the anti AP is already happening. I predicted it will happen after he signed.

 

[Gabriel426]

Still really gonna hogtie the balance of the salary cap structure on the rest of the roster. Robertson,Dermott,Rielly,Mikheyev etc. If Barabanov,Lehtonen play well at $925,000 how do you re-up them. Potentially having to arrange trades for Andersen,Kerfoot,Johnsson. Hyman will be needing more money etc.
It will take one year and the headaches start

What if Barabanov and Lehtonen are really Malgin and Borgman’s level?
I think Hyman and the goalie situation will be interesting and could potentially be a concern for the Leafs but that’s a problem for 2021 off season. By then might have won the Cup with AP.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Still really gonna hogtie the balance of the salary cap structure on the rest of the roster. Robertson,Dermott,Rielly,Mikheyev etc. If Barabanov,Lehtonen play well at $925,000 how do you re-up them. Potentially having to arrange trades for Andersen,Kerfoot,Johnsson. Hyman will be needing more money etc.
It will take one year and the headaches start

It would definitely require moves next year and the year after to make work, but it's doable if Pietrangelo comes in at a reasonable cost, and it would fill our biggest weakness. All of the pieces at risk of being lost are replaceable with good team management, but you don't just go find a Pietrangelo.

 

[Gabriel426]

It just doesn't move the needle enough IMO. If you want to solve the D issue, there is an elite talent potentially available for nothing but money.

And the players you move out to fit in Pietrangelo will being back assets. Whereas trading for Manson - whose reputation nowadays far exceeds his actual play - will cost valuable assets and is counterproductive. Plus Anaheim is capped out and only have one other RD on their roster.

Hamonic is currently not as good as Holl even. There is a reason that Calgary - who needs RD - is moving on from him. Tanev played the full season, but has a lengthy injury history.

Agree with Manson part.
He is 28 yrs old the same age when Muz was traded to the Leafs. Beside being a RHD, he is not even close to Muz’s level when he got traded. I just don’t see why it will take Willie to get it done. AJ(1st rounder), Bracco(Gundstorm) and anyone of our D prospects not named Sandin and Lily should do the trick.