Aleksander Barkov vs Jonathan Toews

[Connor McConnor]

I think they are close but Toews was a better game breaker/clutch and that gives him a clear edge that I don’t think Barkov will ever surpass.

 

[teugen]

2 really unlikeable players but I'm going to have to give it to Barkov. Toews just did a lot of shitty things during his career. People forget about how Toews handled the Kane situation when Kane had his legal troubles. And the letter to the Blackhawks regarding the rebuild. The plant based diet stuff that Toews was on. Mysterious illness and long covid. And now when it's came out that Toews most likely had knowledge about the molestation coverup by the Blackhawks it doesn't look good. Oh and "taking time off from hockey" instead of retiring didn't look good either... At least Barkov hasn't done anything close to this... yet...

I know its been good entertainment to see you post thru all these years, but with this one you might be deserving a hardware ban for this forum.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

In those cup winning seasons it does lean towards Kane being better...or at worst for Kane pretty even.

09/10 Kane was a first team all star and top ten in scoring leading the Blackhawks in goals and points by a large amount.

Toews was 3rd in team scoring and was not quite Selke level yet and an 8th team all star, though he did miss a handful of games.

Both have great playoffs, Toews wins the Conn Smythe and they win the cup despite a poor performance by Toews in the final


2013 the lockout shortened season.

Toews is a second team all star and wins his only Selke award.

Kane finishes top 5 in scoring (in a much harder conference to score) with some very sub par linemates like Handzus and Dave Bolland.


Kane wins the Conn Smythe.

14-15.

Kane is leading the league in scoring until he unfortunately gets hurt playing with newly bought out Brad Richards and Kris Versteeg.

Despite playing 20 more games than Kane Toews only managed 1 more goal and 1 more assist and this is also playing with now Hall of Famer Marian Hossa all the time (and Saad).


Toews obviously a great player in his prime (even if overrated) but when he was winning cups he certainly wasn't the be all end all.

He really was the perfect two way player, the west conference answer to Bergeron at the time. Honestly you just reminded me why they were such a lethal team, during those years you had Kane breaking out as a top scoring talent, Toews as a perennial Selke candidate and Keith the same with the Norris.

Honestly you’re being tough on Bolland. Kane didn’t play any defense, and needed a guy like Bolland. I remember how lost they were in the first round against the Canucks in 2011, going down 0-3. It wasn’t until Bolland came back that gave them the boost they needed to eventually come back and force a game 7. He was a difference maker.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

He really was the perfect two way player, the west conference answer to Bergeron at the time. Honestly you just reminded me why they were such a lethal team, during those years you had Kane breaking out as a top scoring talent, Toews as a perennial Selke candidate and Keith the same with the Norris.

Honestly you’re being tough on Bolland. Kane didn’t play any defense, and needed a guy like Bolland. I remember how lost they were in the first round against the Canucks in 2011, going down 0-3. It wasn’t until Bolland came back that gave them the boost they needed to eventually come back and force a game 7. He was a difference maker.

Bolland was a good player, the Hawks main shutdown center for a couple years, played hard.

Injuries took their hold though and by 2013 he was just about done..on pace for 32 points that year..

Was finally bumped down and was a great 4th liner for one more run before a couple 20 gameish seasons with Toronto and Florida.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Bolland was a good player, the Hawks main shutdown center for a couple years, played hard.

Injuries took their hold though and by 2013 he was just about done..on pace for 32 points that year..

Was finally bumped down and was a great 4th liner for one more run before a couple 20 gameish seasons with Toronto and Florida.

Ahh good call out, I don’t remember Bolland falling off like a cliff that year very well.

I feel like I remember Toews being fantastic in that 2013 run, especially against Boston. I feel like I distinctly recall discussing with fans at the time how Toews should have probably won in 13 instead of 10, but curious what your thoughts are since your memory seems to be a bit more fresh and the stats don’t tell everything.

Hope it didn’t sound like I was taking anything away from Kane, guy was fantastic as well in all the runs, 13 included. I’ll never forget his hat trick that year against the kings, but my personal favorite moment of his was his game winning goal in 10 against the flyers.

 

[Felidae]

Barkov in his 28 year old season adds a selke to his trophy case

Selke: 1, 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11, 17


Toews, bolded is from start of career to Barkov's current age

Selke: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 15, 15, 16


Not sure if this makes anyone change to the "barkov now and going forward" option. But perhaps the "Toews now, Barkov going forward" option is looking more likely. Frankly, I'm surprised the option has the least amount of votes, even at the time this was made.

 

[Xspyrit]

Barkov has been much better this season and I think he'll also be better in the next few years so I voted :

Barkov now and going forward

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I think Toews gets overrated but this Toews.

Let me know when Barkov has 3 Cups and a Smythe

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Hard to argue against Barkov in the regular season now unless he funnily enough has a Toews like decline...but he seems likely to keep being elite for a while yet should pick up one or two more Selkes.

Toews will always have more playoff success but he got to play with Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith

 

[Regal]

Hard to argue against Barkov in the regular season now unless he funnily enough has a Toews like decline...but he seems likely to keep being elite for a while yet should pick up one or two more Selkes.

Toews will always have more playoff success but he got to play with Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith

Probably, but never say never. They went to the finals last year, have a shot to win this year and probably still have a 3-5 year window after this.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Hard to argue against Barkov in the regular season now unless he funnily enough has a Toews like decline...but he seems likely to keep being elite for a while yet should pick up one or two more Selkes.

Toews will always have more playoff success but he got to play with Patrick Kane and Duncan Keith

Yeah poor Barkov dragging those bums in Florida to the playoffs every year

 

[Rorschach]

Wait til Barkov gets wingers like Hossa or Kane.

 

[Nabrules]

Toews never had the skill level of Barkov. Barkov is Kane in a bigger body.

 

[Crow]

Toews never had the skill level of Barkov. Barkov is Kane in a bigger body.

Barkov isn’t close to a top 4 offensive talent in the league and he never will be. Your post is ass. Calm down with the hyperbole.

 

[Regal]

Wait til Barkov gets wingers like Hossa or Kane.

He just played with a 57 goal scorer who finished 4th in Selke voting

 

[I am not exposed]

He just played with a 57 goal scorer who finished 4th in Selke voting

Yeah lets not pretend that Barkov is playing with a bunch of nobodies.

 

[wetcoast]

Barkov in his 28 year old season adds a selke to his trophy case

Selke: 1, 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11, 17


Toews, bolded is from start of career to Barkov's current age

Selke: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 15, 15, 16


Not sure if this makes anyone change to the "barkov now and going forward" option. But perhaps the "Toews now, Barkov going forward" option is looking more likely. Frankly, I'm surprised the option has the least amount of votes, even at the time this was made.

Alot of it depends, rightly or wrongly, on how Barkov does in the playoffs in the next several years and staying healthy as he has too many seasons in his prime missing 10+ games/year on average.

In a vacuum I'd probably take Brkov for his career but Toews doe seem to have that it factor but also declined extrmelt rapidly and was done at 31.

 

[RANDOMH3RO]

I think barkov is on the same level of a player as toews easily. But Toews had that Je ne sais quoi that helped cement his name into hockey history that barkov hasn’t done in the same way. Toews had better help but he stepped up when he was needed to more than barkov has in similar situations so it’s basically a wash but I bet by the end of his career barkov will be considered ahead by most.

 

[Rorschach]

He just played with a 57 goal scorer who finished 4th in Selke voting

Right...a guy who has NEVER done that before and only started scoring ppg when playing in Florida... vs. Hossa who was in the Final four times with three separate teams or Patrick Kane, a former Hart trophy AND Conn Smythe winner. And both Hossa and Kane have been all stars many years each. How many times has Reinhart been chosen as an all star? And don't even get me started on international accomplishments.

 

[BB88]

Yeah lets not pretend that Barkov is playing with a bunch of nobodies.

On offense he has today, but still you can easily say Hossa was a superior player in comparison to Reinhart.

& what separates them is really the Dgroups both had. Chicago in their prime had basically a generational top4 led by Keith.
So comparing Cup wins really don’t tell anything about who was better

 

[x Tame Impala]

I'm really trying to not be biased here and Barkov is a great player no doubt, I just don't see "it" with Barkov in the playoffs. Toews didn't have a full career of excellence but from 09 to 15 especially he was a superstar out there on the ice. 16 & 17 he was a lesser version of himself but still a very good 1C.

I've only watched about 4 Panthers games this postseason including last night so maybe I'm missing something but I've watched a decent amount of the guy over the years and he doesn't pass the eye test as this game-breaking, dynamic, will his team to a Cup, type of player.

The league is different now with scoring so Barkov's #'s will be better than Toews which is going to muddy people's perceptions, as well as Toews' prime being 10-15 years ago.

 

[wmupreds]

I'm really trying to not be biased here and Barkov is a great player no doubt, I just don't see "it" with Barkov in the playoffs. Toews didn't have a full career of excellence but from 09 to 15 especially he was a superstar out there on the ice. 16 & 17 he was a lesser version of himself but still a very good 1C.

I've only watched about 4 Panthers games this postseason including last night so maybe I'm missing something but I've watched a decent amount of the guy over the years and he doesn't pass the eye test as this game-breaking, dynamic, will his team to a Cup, type of player.

The league is different now with scoring so Barkov's #'s will be better than Toews which is going to muddy people's perceptions, as well as Toews' prime being 10-15 years ago.

No, Toews was not a "superstar" based on on-ice play. He never finished top 10 in scoring and most years was not particularly close. His defense was very good, yes, but he simply was not a good enough offensive player to be in the elite or superstar tier.

He did, however, play in a large market during a highly successful run where the team skyrocketed in popularity. And he wore a C and the media couldn't shut up about his leadership and intangibles. He got the Jeter effect (although Jeter was probably better) where if Toews had ended up in Columbus or something nobody is posting about him in 2024.

Very good player, obviously. Not a "superstar out there on the ice", ever in his career.

 

[Regal]

Right...a guy who has NEVER done that before and only started scoring ppg when playing in Florida... vs. Hossa who was in the Final four times with three separate teams or Patrick Kane, a former Hart trophy AND Conn Smythe winner. And both Hossa and Kane have been all stars many years each. How many times has Reinhart been chosen as an all star? And don't even get me started on international accomplishments.

Reinhart isn’t the same level of player overall, but clearly had a great season so I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Kane didn’t play with Toews after he started scoring at elite levels (he had one 10th place scoring finish before 12-13 when they were already separated), and Hossa was already on the back 9 of his career offensively when he played with Toews. I’m not sure what either versions of those players when Toews played with them is really changing for Barkov as opposed to what Reinhart brought this year. And he also played with Huberdeau earlier in his career when Hubs was a 90 point player.

 

[Il Stugotz]

Similar players at their peaks

What was great about Toews was that he played such a great two way game so early his career - on his ELC and bridge deals. He didn’t need to fail and then evolve. Not saying that Barkov did either. It’s just that I watched most Hawks games 2008-2010 and got to see it. Can’t really blame us for overhyping him post 2010 - seemed like he at only 22 could maybe take one more step up offensively and rival Crosby for a minute there

 

[yeaher]

When Barkov's play is winning Cups, then he could considered but he's three short as is.