Agents and advisors

[MiamiHockeyII]

If the CHL and NCAA come to an agreement, it will destroy U-sport in Canada and likely AJHL, BCHL and other leagues. I also feel it is unlikely to happen, as the powerful schools in the NCAA are happy being the big dogs. It's the smaller schools that want it. That's said, the hockey landscape in Canada is all over the place these day's so who knows?

No, no it won't destroy anything if it happens. That's an opinion completely unsupported by anything other than the American ego.

Let's imagine you're a 20 year old graduating from the CHL. By this point you already have a sense of your pro hockey prospects / aspirations, as do hockey coaches. Unless you're already drafted, you know your chances are slim to none, and you're going to university for an education first.

Top NCAA Div I programs only get 18 full scholarships to hand out, and that number will not change. Some programs will offer a few full rides to 20 year olds, but that just means that other players who WOULD have received those full rides will become available to play USports. Shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic, so to speak.

Remember, Div III programs get ZERO full rides, and the cost of US Tuition is prohibitive for Canadians, so the idea that CHL players will, en masse, choose Div II/III hockey over USports is fanciful. Most Canadians in the CHL come from modest financial means, and part of the CHL's allure is that you don't have to pay to play.

If you want to compare large comprehensive universities, Michigan tuition is $58,000 USD (~$80,000 Cdn) for International Students. Alberta Tuition for Canadians is $6,500 Cdn. For those non-full ride players, unless your family is made of money, as a Canadian you're choosing Alberta over Michigan all day.

If you want to compare smaller universities, Bentley University tuition is $56,500 USD (~$80,000 Cdn) for International Students. UNB is $11,000 for Canadians. Not in the same arena. Oh, and (rumour has it) UNB can offer athletic scholarships to reduce that to zero or less. Bentley has financial aid that may cut it down to $30,000 USD (~40,000 Cdn), but that's still $160,000 more than UNB.

If you want to argue that NIL changes things, it doesn't. International students on student visas are prohibited from earning NIL income in the US.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

I almost got in a fight with a USA Hockey recruiter this past weekend at a U16AAA Tournament here in town.

He was talking about the coming partnership between the CHL and NCAA, saying how it was the best thing since sliced bread. How graduating CHL players could go play D2 hockey, get a great education and it wouldn't cost them much. Apparently my arguement that any of our teams would wipe a D2 team, the education was just as good and kids would likely walk away with money in their pockets versus having to pay crazy tuitions wasn't good enough. Besides, some degrees from the states don't even translate well to Canada anyways, though this may be more of an issue for the francophones.

If anyone is stupid enough to believe a USA Hockey recruiter's tale that they'd getting a better education at a DII/DIII NCAA school (hello, SUNY Geneseo) than any Canadian university (hello, St FX), then that's probably the education they deserve.

 

[timbitca]

If anyone is stupid enough to believe a USA Hockey recruiter's tale that they'd getting a better education at a DII/DIII NCAA school (hello, SUNY Geneseo) than any Canadian university (hello, St FX), then that's probably the education they deserve.

Obviously, but some people will get taken in with the sales pitch of the NCAA dream.

 

[Banffboy70]

Interesting stuff.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

As has been discussed on other threads, if, and that is a big IF, the NCAA allowed in Major Junior (CHL) players it would probably cause the most damage to Junior A leagues - why would you restrict yourself to Junior A if you didn't have too? It is considered a Tier II league for a reason.

More likely you would see the stud recruits choose the CHL to start their pro path. Why be a one-and-done draft pick at an NCAA school when you can get the same (or probably better) development in the CHL, and not have to go to school full-time. If you don't get drafted in the first two rounds, maybe an NCAA school will offer you a package, or you can stick it out in the CHL until your over-age year, and then go to USports and get your full degree.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

As has been discussed on other threads, if, and that is a big IF, the NCAA allowed in Major Junior (CHL) players it would probably cause the most damage to Junior A leagues - why would you restrict yourself to Junior A if you didn't have too? It is considered a Tier II league for a reason.

More likely you would see the stud recruits choose the CHL to start their pro path. Why be a one-and-done draft pick at an NCAA school when you can get the same (or probably better) development in the CHL, and not have to go to school full-time. If you don't get drafted in the first two rounds, maybe an NCAA school will offer you a package, or you can stick it out in the CHL until your over-age year, and then go to USports and get your full degree.

IF the NCAA/CHL eligibility change happens, I think Jr A leagues will serve more of a feeder role for the CHL than they do currently. This will take some time, but smart CHL teams will figure it out.

What we currently see is 15-16 year olds being drafted into the CHL and being forced to choose immediately, signing CHL deals as 15 (WHL) / 16 (OHL/QMJHL) year olds. Outside of top prospects, most 17 year old players would be better off playing Jr A - and playing in more situations - than struggling through the CHL grind.

Should things change, I can see smart CHL teams buying / affiliating with local Jr teams they can use as a farm team, much like NHL teams have bought up the AHL. A CHL team can then sign their drafted player at 15/16, and instead of leaving them to develop with their home association, the HCL team can billet them with the affiliated Jr A team and have them develop under their watchful eye.

Such a scenario would actually be a boost to Jr A leagues, not mark their demise.

 

[Banffboy70]

The thing is, the leagues and affiliations with other leagues and teams are becoming so fragmented. For example, teams leaving the AJHL for BCHL, CSSHL teams affiliating with CHL teams like SAHA in Medicine Hat are now feeding players to the WHL Tigers. I hear rumblings that the NAX out of Devon is now getting an AJHL team that they will affiliate with. It's getting hard to A) afford the best development for your kid if things go in this direction and B) navigating the ever-changing landscape.

All this is why I am considering send my kid to the US for development in the USHL or NAHL. At least there seems to be a proper system of progression.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

The thing is, the leagues and affiliations with other leagues and teams are becoming so fragmented. For example, teams leaving the AJHL for BCHL, CSSHL teams affiliating with CHL teams like SAHA in Medicine Hat are now feeding players to the WHL Tigers. I hear rumblings that the NAX out of Devon is now getting an AJHL team that they will affiliate with. It's getting hard to A) afford the best development for your kid if things go in this direction and B) navigating the ever-changing landscape.

All this is why I am considering send my kid to the US for development in the USHL or NAHL. At least there seems to be a proper system of progression.

I hate to break it to you, but you don't just "send" your kid to the NAHL or USHL.

Hockey Canada actually has a much clearer (and better) development system than USA Hockey. USA Hockey is a free-for-all at the AAA level, so while their top few programs are better than Canada's (e.g., SSM, Little Caesars), after that it drops off precipitously. The main challenge with Hockey Canada is that many associations don't read / follow / understand the development model. This has led to the numerous (too many) CSSHL "programs" fleecing parents whose kids get cut from their AAA program.

The reality is that if your child has a legitimate future in hockey, they will get selected and develop. If your child is getting cut from their AAA program, spending $40k a year on development is not going to change their career trajectory. Nor is shipping them to the US to pay that amount in $USD.

 

[AUS Fan]

I hate to break it to you, but you don't just "send" your kid to the NAHL or USHL.

Hockey Canada actually has a much clearer (and better) development system than USA Hockey. USA Hockey is a free-for-all at the AAA level, so while their top few programs are better than Canada's (e.g., SSM, Little Caesars), after that it drops off precipitously. The main challenge with Hockey Canada is that many associations don't read / follow / understand the development model. This has led to the numerous (too many) CSSHL "programs" fleecing parents whose kids get cut from their AAA program.

The reality is that if your child has a legitimate future in hockey, they will get selected and develop. If your child is getting cut from their AAA program, spending $40k a year on development is not going to change their career trajectory. Nor is shipping them to the US to pay that amount in $USD.

The voice of reason speaks out.

 

[Hollywood3]

IF the NCAA/CHL eligibility change happens, I think Jr A leagues will serve more of a feeder role for the CHL than they do currently. This will take some time, but smart CHL teams will figure it out.

What we currently see is 15-16 year olds being drafted into the CHL and being forced to choose immediately, signing CHL deals as 15 (WHL) / 16 (OHL/QMJHL) year olds. Outside of top prospects, most 17 year old players would be better off playing Jr A - and playing in more situations - than struggling through the CHL grind.

Should things change, I can see smart CHL teams buying / affiliating with local Jr teams they can use as a farm team, much like NHL teams have bought up the AHL. A CHL team can then sign their drafted player at 15/16, and instead of leaving them to develop with their home association, the HCL team can billet them with the affiliated Jr A team and have them develop under their watchful eye.

Such a scenario would actually be a boost to Jr A leagues, not mark their demise.

That was exactly the case years ago. Players seldom went to the WCHL (as it then was) until a year or 2 of Junior A.

 

[Hollywood3]

Easy there, Eddie. What you write above is patently false.

1) The CHL education package is part of a legally binding contract that is administered centrally by the league. You just have to fill out a few forms to get the funds.

2) The idea that a hockey player should go the NCAA route to "get a good education" is not just ridiculous, for Canadians the opposite is actually a more accurate statement. If a Canadian really wants a good education, they should stay in Canada. Yes, the NCAA has Harvard, Yale, and Princeton (none of which offer full scholarships, BTW), but it also has St Lawrence, MSU-Mankato and AIC (among other low-ranking schools). A CHL scholarship that covers five years at UBC, Alberta, McGill, or Dalhousie, is worth more than any NCAA full ride.

3) This board is frequented by academics, college and athletics administrators, coaches, and scouts. Please don't think you can spout falsehoods about either the CHL or NCAA without being called out.

Don't forget trade schools. Two years of major junior and you could be an electrician when you're 23.

 

[Hollywood3]

True. like Hockey Canada spending 3 million on hush money payouts for sexual abuse. Could have used that money towards the development program!

It probably happens south of the border too, I guess.

This was a gross misrepresentation by media big mouths. It's called settling out of court. This is done not only by sports teams but by arts groups, companies, government departments, etc. Ask CBC, Bell and Rogers to disclose their "hush money" budgets.

 

[Hollywood3]

As has been discussed on other threads, if, and that is a big IF, the NCAA allowed in Major Junior (CHL) players it would probably cause the most damage to Junior A leagues - why would you restrict yourself to Junior A if you didn't have too? It is considered a Tier II league for a reason.

More likely you would see the stud recruits choose the CHL to start their pro path. Why be a one-and-done draft pick at an NCAA school when you can get the same (or probably better) development in the CHL, and not have to go to school full-time. If you don't get drafted in the first two rounds, maybe an NCAA school will offer you a package, or you can stick it out in the CHL until your over-age year, and then go to USports and get your full degree.

I could see some NCAA teams offering a full scholarship for just one year to even an already drafted player. Can they bring in guys at Christmas?