Player Discussion Adam "the Magician" Larsson

[belair]

The point I'm making is that it won't be ideal to have a #4 defenceman on a 5.5 mil salary. Although it may not be awful because our top pairing won't be making too much.

It will be very much like Carolina in 06 if we find any sort of success - a complete defence by committee. There's a reason that has only worked once in the past 20+ years, so I'm not very hopeful.

What is a #4 defenseman?

He's an offensive defenseman playing second pairing minutes with heavy PP time. If he can average 30 or more points a season, $5.5m is a very fair salary. He had his second best offensive output last year.

 

[duul]

What is a #4 defenseman?

He's an offensive defenseman playing second pairing minutes with heavy PP time. If he can average 30 or more points a season, $5.5m is a very fair salary. He had his second best offensive output last year.

I don't know what a number 4 defenceman is, but next season he is going to be playing less minutes than Klef, Larsson, and probably Davidson. A healthy Klefbom is going to take those PP minutes from Sekera. Larsson will take those PP minutes away from him too to some degree.

Sekera is a fine depth defenceman. He put up 30 points with prime PP time which isn't that spectacular. He fit Carolina's system well because he was paired with an offensive dynamo in Faulk and played a defensive role. I don't see him as an offensive defenceman at all. He doesn't stand out as either offensive or defensive. He eats up some minutes looking very normal. His shot is absolute trash and never gets through, his skating is at best average, he is not intimidating, and he can't make a breakout pass.

Rewatch our games from last year or wait until the preseason to see Sekera getting the puck in our end and flipping it sky high into the air over and over again. I saw Davidson make sweeter plays in our own zone as a rookie defenceman through 10 games than I saw Sekera make the entire season.

Let me be clear: Sekera in my eyes fits as a #4 defenceman. He shouldn't be carrying a line. He can't produce offence on his own. If we had an offensive dynamo like Faulk or Barrie, I would understand putting them together like how Sekera succeeded in Carolina.

In L.A. he played #4/5 minutes on that team and looked like he was struggling. Here is Edmonton he played mostly #1 minutes until Davidson took that spot from him down the stretch and he looked to struggle. I think he is a very mediocre defenceman and while he doesn't make too many mistakes like a Nurse, I don't see much difference in their value to a team.

Sekera is a very weird player. Like I said, for 5.5 mil ages 30-36, that is a contract that could become a hindrance down the road when Klef, Larsson, Davidson, Nurse, etc are all outplaying him. I was completely for the signing at the time and still understand it because we badly needed a defenceman who wasn't trash. If his contract was 3 mil a year I would be happy.

 

[Aerchon]

Every time I see someone say Sekera is anything less than a solid 2/3 level defender it reinforces the stereotype that most Oiler fans on this board don't know what good defense is. Or how valuable it is. Or that points is just a piece of the picture for what a good defender needs to be effective in the NHL.

Also Sekera's contract is from 29 to 35. The chance of that contract turning sour at age 35 is a reasonable gamble and covers the bulk of a typical defense mans prime years.

 

[Blitzago*]

I don't know what a number 4 defenceman is, but next season he is going to be playing less minutes than Klef, Larsson, and probably Davidson. A healthy Klefbom is going to take those PP minutes from Sekera. Larsson will take those PP minutes away from him too to some degree.

Sekera is a fine depth defenceman. He put up 30 points with prime PP time which isn't that spectacular. He fit Carolina's system well because he was paired with an offensive dynamo in Faulk and played a defensive role. I don't see him as an offensive defenceman at all. He doesn't stand out as either offensive or defensive. He eats up some minutes looking very normal. His shot is absolute trash and never gets through, his skating is at best average, he is not intimidating, and he can't make a breakout pass.

Rewatch our games from last year or wait until the preseason to see Sekera getting the puck in our end and flipping it sky high into the air over and over again. I saw Davidson make sweeter plays in our own zone as a rookie defenceman through 10 games than I saw Sekera make the entire season.

Let me be clear: Sekera in my eyes fits as a #4 defenceman. He shouldn't be carrying a line. He can't produce offence on his own. If we had an offensive dynamo like Faulk or Barrie, I would understand putting them together like how Sekera succeeded in Carolina.

In L.A. he played #4/5 minutes on that team and looked like he was struggling. Here is Edmonton he played mostly #1 minutes until Davidson took that spot from him down the stretch and he looked to struggle. I think he is a very mediocre defenceman and while he doesn't make too many mistakes like a Nurse, I don't see much difference in their value to a team.

Sekera is a very weird player. Like I said, for 5.5 mil ages 30-36, that is a contract that could become a hindrance down the road when Klef, Larsson, Davidson, Nurse, etc are all outplaying him. I was completely for the signing at the time and still understand it because we badly needed a defenceman who wasn't trash. If his contract was 3 mil a year I would be happy.

And if that was what the oilers would of offered, he wouldn't be anywhere near this team.

And you can say that about almost any player on the oilers.

I'd be happy if Eberle was making 3m aswell, oh wait it's not realistic at all.

 

[duul]

Every time I see someone say Sekera is anything less than a solid 2/3 level defender it reinforces the stereotype that most Oiler fans on this board don't know what good defense is. Or how valuable it is. Or that points is just a piece of the picture for what a good defender needs to be effective in the NHL.

Also Sekera's contract is from 29 to 35. The chance of that contract turning sour at age 35 is a reasonable gamble and covers the bulk of a typical defense mans prime years.

He has seemingly soured already. He was propped up in Carolina by a stud offensive defenceman whose numbers didn't really change after the departure of Sekera. You'd think if Sekera was playing so great with him that Faulk would stumble in some regard.

He was the best free agent defenceman available in a terrible free agent period, and I am glad we got him because we truly needed him. What I'm trying to say is that he is not a #3 defenceman on a playoff team. Hell, he ain't a #3 defenceman on the Oilers if we are healthy.

 

[duul]

And if that was what the oilers would of offered, he wouldn't be anywhere near this team.

And you can say that about almost any player on the oilers.

I'd be happy if Eberle was making 3m aswell, oh wait it's not realistic at all.

This has nothing to do with anything else I said. I understand we had to pay for Sekera to come here.

 

[MessierII]

Not surprised by the discussion here. Classic 2010's oiler fan mentality. Apparently Davidson after 20 some games of good play has usurped a guy who's been a consistent top 4 D for many years in this league. Seen this before many times. Young player comes in and plays well for a small fraction of the season and he instantly makes all vets expendable. The exact mentality that has made us the worst run franchise in the NHL.

 

[duul]

Not surprised by the discussion here. Classic 2010's oiler fan mentality. Apparently Davidson after 20 some games of good play has usurped a guy who's been a consistent top 4 D for many years in this league. Seen this before many times. Young player comes in and plays well for a small fraction of the season and he instantly makes all vets expendable. The exact mentality that has made us the worst run franchise in the NHL.

Can you give some examples? I tried thinking about defenceman who have come into the team and shown great promise for 20-30+ games in the NHL and suddenly fell off the face of the earth. Schultz looked a bit decent for a while until he got overwhelmed. He also never had any concept of defensive play.

Davidson seems like a safe bet to trend upward, not downward.

 

[bobbythebrain]

He has seemingly soured already. He was propped up in Carolina by a stud offensive defenceman whose numbers didn't really change after the departure of Sekera. You'd think if Sekera was playing so great with him that Faulk would stumble in some regard.

He was the best free agent defenceman available in a terrible free agent period, and I am glad we got him because we truly needed him. What I'm trying to say is that he is not a #3 defenceman on a playoff team. Hell, he ain't a #3 defenceman on the Oilers if we are healthy.

This is a ridiculous argument. Faulk racks up points on the pp. What does his d partner have to do with that? He did have a slightly inflated year with Faulk but 40 points is not his standard. 25-30 are.

Sekera just put up 30 points in Edm. Who was the last dman to that here? So how exactly did he sour? He was also paired with Nurse and Fayne dragging them around the ice and still scored 30. He more than exceeded expectations I'd say.

 

[booyakasha]

This is a ridiculous argument. Faulk racks up points on the pp. What does his d partner have to do with that? He did have a slightly inflated year with Faulk but 40 points is not his standard. 25-30 are.

Sekera just put up 30 points in Edm. Who was the last dman to that here? So how exactly did he sour? He was also paired with Nurse and Fayne dragging them around the ice and still scored 30. He more than exceeded expectations I'd say.

dragging them around?....Nurse needs a legit D to apprentice under and pairing him with Suckera isn't doing him any benefit...
Suckera is slow in decision making, can't shoot. and brutal at break out...stellar at stay at home and shot blocking...fine.

Nurse needs better and isn't getting it from the players in front of him..
Playing Nurse with Sekera is more detrimental to Nurse than Sekara..

 

[bobbythebrain]

dragging them around?....Nurse needs a legit D to apprentice under and pairing him with Suckera isn't doing him any benefit...
Suckera is slow in decision making, can't shoot. and brutal at break out...stellar at stay at home and shot blocking...fine.

Nurse needs better and isn't getting it from the players in front of him..
Playing Nurse with Sekera is more detrimental to Nurse than Sekara..

Like he was detrimental to a young Justin Faulk? Or Tyler Myers?

 

[booyakasha]

Like he was detrimental to a young Justin Faulk? Or Tyler Myers?

did wonders n Edmonton ya?...sure made a "faulk, or Myers: out of the young D here.... I'm sure those guys made him more than he helped them....

 

[Blitzago*]

did wonders n Edmonton ya?...sure made a "faulk, or Myers: out of the young D here.... I'm sure those guys made him more than he helped them....

You were probably in the boat that thought petry was a #5.

 

[Philly85*]

I see some of us are already resorting to calling quality players and prize free agent signings mean names, and trying to run them outta town

**** outta here with that ****

 

[booyakasha]

I see some of us are already resorting to calling quality players and prize free agent signings mean names, and trying to run them outta town

**** outta here with that ****

call a spade a spade....**** ya wit dat ****

 

[booyakasha]

You were probably in the boat that thought petry was a #5.

nope....

 

[PaPaDee]

Can you give some examples? I tried thinking about defenceman who have come into the team and shown great promise for 20-30+ games in the NHL and suddenly fell off the face of the earth. Schultz looked a bit decent for a while until he got overwhelmed. He also never had any concept of defensive play.

Davidson seems like a safe bet to trend upward, not downward.

Gilbert.

 

[Panda Bear]

Hell, we thought Corey Potter was great for two months.

Then the scout report got out on him, and he never had the tools to overcome it. (Plus the injury, iirc, didn't help.)

 

[Panda Bear]

When it comes to players who perform well for 20-30 games then never look the same again, it goes one of two ways: either they don't have the tools to adapt after other teams have scouted them properly, or they have trouble handling pressure and building consistency.

 

[McFlyingV]

I don't know what a number 4 defenceman is, but next season he is going to be playing less minutes than Klef, Larsson, and probably Davidson. A healthy Klefbom is going to take those PP minutes from Sekera. Larsson will take those PP minutes away from him too to some degree.

Sekera is a fine depth defenceman. He put up 30 points with prime PP time which isn't that spectacular. He fit Carolina's system well because he was paired with an offensive dynamo in Faulk and played a defensive role. I don't see him as an offensive defenceman at all. He doesn't stand out as either offensive or defensive. He eats up some minutes looking very normal. His shot is absolute trash and never gets through, his skating is at best average, he is not intimidating, and he can't make a breakout pass.

Rewatch our games from last year or wait until the preseason to see Sekera getting the puck in our end and flipping it sky high into the air over and over again. I saw Davidson make sweeter plays in our own zone as a rookie defenceman through 10 games than I saw Sekera make the entire season.

Let me be clear: Sekera in my eyes fits as a #4 defenceman. He shouldn't be carrying a line. He can't produce offence on his own. If we had an offensive dynamo like Faulk or Barrie, I would understand putting them together like how Sekera succeeded in Carolina.

In L.A. he played #4/5 minutes on that team and looked like he was struggling. Here is Edmonton he played mostly #1 minutes until Davidson took that spot from him down the stretch and he looked to struggle. I think he is a very mediocre defenceman and while he doesn't make too many mistakes like a Nurse, I don't see much difference in their value to a team.

Sekera is a very weird player. Like I said, for 5.5 mil ages 30-36, that is a contract that could become a hindrance down the road when Klef, Larsson, Davidson, Nurse, etc are all outplaying him. I was completely for the signing at the time and still understand it because we badly needed a defenceman who wasn't trash. If his contract was 3 mil a year I would be happy.

Couple things. Sekera outscored Faulk by a fair margin in his 44 point season so I really don't think it was Faulk that made that happen. I think he had a lucky season and is more of a 25-30 type guy, but definitely a good #3.

As for your concerns about his contract, I guess its a good thing that he will never be even 35 at any point of that contract unless the Oilers are in the SCF in the last year of it.

 

[Fourier]

He has seemingly soured already. He was propped up in Carolina by a stud offensive defenceman whose numbers didn't really change after the departure of Sekera. You'd think if Sekera was playing so great with him that Faulk would stumble in some regard.

He was the best free agent defenceman available in a terrible free agent period, and I am glad we got him because we truly needed him. What I'm trying to say is that he is not a #3 defenceman on a playoff team. Hell, he ain't a #3 defenceman on the Oilers if we are healthy.

If Sekera was simply propped up by a stud offensive defenseman would you not expect that the stud would have had more points. Sekera had 44 points in 2013-2014 to 32 for Faulk with Faulk playing two more games. At ES Sekera actually outscored Faulk 28 to 23. Certainly playing with Faulk helped but you can't argue that Sekera did not carry his own weight. That said 2013-2104 was clearly a career year for Sekera.

Last year only 85 defenseman had 20 or more points and in 2014-2105 there were 95. If you set the bar at 25 points these numbers would be 65 and 62 players respectively. Given that Sekera has averaged 26.5 pts per season over the last two years and 32.3 pt per season over the last 3, it's hard to argue that the way he has produced over the last 3 years he is not at least a #3 defenseman offensively. As a two way defenseman I think he is certainly a solid #3.

 

[LTIR]

Couple things. Sekera outscored Faulk by a fair margin in his 44 point season so I really don't think it was Faulk that made that happen. I think he had a lucky season and is more of a 25-30 type guy, but definitely a good #3.

As for your concerns about his contract, I guess its a good thing that he will never be even 35 at any point of that contract unless the Oilers are in the SCF in the last year of it.

cant possibly be serious here.

Faulk is a 25-30 pt player if he plays 50-55 games every season.

Calling him a 25pt player when he just came off a 37pt in 64game season.. 12PPG second highest in the league for Dmen despite missing 18 games.

Sekera cant hold Faulk's jockstrap offensively or physically.

Faulk is also on a much better contract and is just entering his prime (24yo) while Sekera is about to leave the prime years.

edit: read the post I quoted again... if that 25-30 was meant for Sekera and not Faulk then disregard my post.

 

[Aerchon]

Can you give some examples? I tried thinking about defenceman who have come into the team and shown great promise for 20-30+ games in the NHL and suddenly fell off the face of the earth. Schultz looked a bit decent for a while until he got overwhelmed. He also never had any concept of defensive play.

Davidson seems like a safe bet to trend upward, not downward.

Gilbert is a perfect example.

As is Petry. Who showed extremely well his rookie year and didn't get that back imo for years later on his last contract year.

Peckam is another great example.

Schultz obviously.

Nurse.

Even Reinhart clearly won his spot last year before tailing off.

Damn near every young defender the Oilers have had in the last ten years showed great promise/play before tailing off and then being overused.

Consistency against top quality of competition is practically the definition of what makes a effective top 4 nhl defender.

A single mistake is what typically makes the difference between winning and losing.

 

[JordanGalhanth]

And on that note, let's remember that a bunch of us here for calling for Davidson to hit waiver wires before he suddenly exploded onto the scene.

 

[McJadeddog]

And on that note, let's remember that a bunch of us here for calling for Davidson to hit waiver wires before he suddenly exploded onto the scene.

yup, the thing that scares me almost the most about next year (not having scoring due to the ridiculous hall-failure-of-a-trade is what worries me the most), is how inflated davidson's worth seems to be by the fans, media, and management.... he played like an adequate top-4 guy for about 20 games, and now he's somehow a lock for 2nd pairing work all year? if there is one thing we should have all learned a long, long time ago is that dmen don't evolve in a straight line