Player Discussion Adam "the Magician" Larsson

[Sweoilers]

I would love to hear the argument as to why "Adam Larsson is a legit top pairing guy".

Go ahead and show me the damn advanced stat chart. I'll go get one from Mark Fayne in the literal, exact same situation and it says the same ****.

Before Andy Greene, he was a suspect.

Before Andy Greene he was what, 20 years old. How many 20 year old d-men are there in the league that gets to play top 4 and even then top pair? Second half off last season Larsson was carrying Greene. Not the other way around. Klefbom and Larsson will be our first pair and they will be a good one.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Are we calling him the magician because he made Taylor Hall disappear?

 

[Ogopogo*]

Taylor Hall was a nice piece but, we need what Larsson and Lucic bring a lot more than we needed what Taylor Hall brought.

Glad Chia has the balls to do what MacT and Tambo were too scared to do.

 

[VainGretzky]

So we are all to get excited about a player who is a poor skater gets beaten wide this is from Devil fans has a poor shot good at defending and good outlet pass . Cost Franchise winger. Sounds like Griffin Reinhart to me.

 

[LaGu]

So we are all to get excited about a player who is a poor skater gets beaten wide this is from Devil fans has a poor shot good at defending and good outlet pass . Cost Franchise winger. Sounds like Griffin Reinhart to me.

To each his own, no one has said that you need to be excited, but then again if you go on about that Larsson is Fayne 2.0 or Reinhart then you can expect reactions.

He is not a poor skater. He is actually a good skater, very smooth and a bit Lidstromesque (without the besr backwards skating in the league as lidstrom obviously). What he is missing is a bit of accelaration.

His shot is not bad at all, just crminalltly unutilized in NJD.

He gets beaten wide sometimes in turn-overs (due to his acceleration) but normally he is smart enough positionally not to let it happen anyway.

I am guessing nothing and no one will change your mind, which is fair by the way, you won't change mine either, so there is that.

Apparently I told you so posts are not allowed but feel perfectly free to call me out if Larsson is playing like Reinhart or Fayne by the end of the season.

 

[MettleMcOiler]

To each his own, no one has said that you need to be excited, but then again if you go on about that Larsson is Fayne 2.0 or Reinhart then you can expect reactions.

He is not a poor skater. He is actually a good skater, very smooth and a bit Lidstromesque (without the besr backwards skating in the league as lidstrom obviously). What he is missing is a bit of accelaration.

His shot is not bad at all, just crminalltly unutilized in NJD.

He gets beaten wide sometimes in turn-overs (due to his acceleration) but normally he is smart enough positionally not to let it happen anyway.

I am guessing nothing and no one will change your mind, which is fair by the way, you won't change mine either, so there is that.

Apparently I told you so posts are not allowed but feel perfectly free to call me out if Larsson is playing like Reinhart or Fayne by the end of the season.

Won't change mine either and I hope other posters will be see how Beneficial Larsson will be this coming season. Hall is gone, and Larsson comes into the locker room with more positive attributes that will contribute to our team. I am glad that after a decade of grief that they're posters that didn't' succumb to the sarcastic cynicism that is becoming a black eye on oiler fans.

 

[cbzblaze]

So we are all to get excited about a player who is a poor skater gets beaten wide this is from Devil fans has a poor shot good at defending and good outlet pass . Cost Franchise winger. Sounds like Griffin Reinhart to me.

If Taylor Hall is your 'Franchise Player' , your franchise isn't very good.

I don't think Larsson is as elite of a shut down defender as his stats show. I also don't think Larsson is as poor of an offensive player as his stats show.
It's called the New Jersey Devils effect.

At the VERY WORST, Larsson will be a great second pairing RHD, capable of playing big minutes while contributing on both the pp and pk. His awesome contract also gives us the flexibility to add another good defenceman in the near future.

 

[Zguy370]

Some of the posts ridiculing Larsson, because we lost a so called " Elite " player, are just insanely ridiculous to say the least

 

[RSeen]

To each his own, no one has said that you need to be excited, but then again if you go on about that Larsson is Fayne 2.0 or Reinhart then you can expect reactions.

He is not a poor skater. He is actually a good skater, very smooth and a bit Lidstromesque (without the besr backwards skating in the league as lidstrom obviously). What he is missing is a bit of accelaration.

His shot is not bad at all, just crminalltly unutilized in NJD.

He gets beaten wide sometimes in turn-overs (due to his acceleration) but normally he is smart enough positionally not to let it happen anyway.

I am guessing nothing and no one will change your mind, which is fair by the way, you won't change mine either, so there is that.

Apparently I told you so posts are not allowed but feel perfectly free to call me out if Larsson is playing like Reinhart or Fayne by the end of the season.

Larsson's skating is fine, he does get beat to the outside sometimes but it isn't often. His positioning is very good so he makes up for his lack of speed there. His shot is pretty bad honestly. He doesn't hit the net a whole lot and his slap shot is not exactly a bomb from the point. I wouldn't expect a ton of goals, but I'm sure he will score more than he did on NJ with a better offensive team. But he is a lot better than Reinhart and Fayne. Good passer and good vision as well.

 

[Fourier]

Larsson's skating is fine, he does get beat to the outside sometimes but it isn't often. His positioning is very good so he makes up for his lack of speed there. His shot is pretty bad honestly. He doesn't hit the net a whole lot and his slap shot is not exactly a bomb from the point. I wouldn't expect a ton of goals, but I'm sure he will score more than he did on NJ with a better offensive team. But he is a lot better than Reinhart and Fayne. Good passer and good vision as well.

I would agree about his skating. He's not top tier but it is not really an issue.

I am always a little leery of the "he does not hit the net much claim" since our eyes can often deceive us if we have a predisposed idea of what a player is like. On this board it is often Yakupov who "misses the net all the time". Statistically though this is not accurate. In fact if anything Yak's issue has been that he hits the goalie's chest too often.

I looked at the ratio of shots on goal to misses. The following shows the career numbers of misses per successful SOG. (The lower the number the better):

Larsson .427
Subban .411
Keith .431
Phaneuf .491
Vlasic .599
Weber .480
Yandle .490
Byfuglien .425
Burns .473
Doughty .514

Now there are a couple of caveats to these numbers. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the count in any building but we should assume that with large sample sizes the error is relatively small. More significantly this does not differentiate between slap shots and wrist shots.

 

[Philly85*]

Some of the posts ridiculing Larsson, because we lost a so called " Elite " player, are just insanely ridiculous to say the least

To use my tired old cliche, it's embarrassing.

 

[thalegion]

Some of the posts ridiculing Larsson, because we lost a so called " Elite " player, are just insanely ridiculous to say the least

Their is a difference between ridicule and calling a spade a spade, we traded a Ferrari for a Honda Civic with the optional leather package, dependable ride but lost value

 

[nabob]

Their is a difference between ridicule and calling a spade a spade, we traded a Ferrari for a Honda Civic with the optional leather package, dependable ride but lost value

and the ridiculousness continues.

We traded a Corvette for a fully loaded Scania

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

and the ridiculousness continues.

We traded a Corvette for a fully loaded Scania

But it came with a ski rack too, and we'll totally use that.

 

[PatrikOverAuston]

Their is a difference between ridicule and calling a spade a spade, we traded a Ferrari for a Honda Civic with the optional leather package, dependable ride but lost value

A Ferrari that likes to break down at least once a year and spend 1-2 weeks in the shop, if that's how we're going to play it.

 

[MettleMcOiler]

 

[slim2001]

Defensemen ranking #35, about where I have him. He is tied for the lead, vote on poll if you want him to win:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2107299

 

[Dirk Dangler]

A Ferrari that likes to break down at least once a year and spend 1-2 weeks in the shop, if that's how we're going to play it.

Their is a difference between ridicule and calling a spade a spade, we traded a Ferrari for a Honda Civic with the optional leather package, dependable ride but lost value

Sometimes Flat out speed and power doesn't get it done.

 

[oilerbear]

Mediocre defenseman until he got paired with Andy Greene - who has made every D-partner he's played with over the last decade look better than they actually are. Deeply possible he's not a legitimate top-4 guy.

So, yay!

So that is your opinion!

Opinion; def: Point of view not based on facts or Knowledge

Fayne and Greene played under Deboer in New jersey.
11-2 to 13-14
Fayne
#1 HSCAD
#5 23.09 SA/60
2.20 EVGA/60
#9 PKGA

Greene
Top 10 HSCAD
#4 22.61 SA/60 D
2.11 EVGA/60
#16 PKGA

Greene had better shot suppression and EVGA

Fayne and Larsson
14-15 to 15-16
they ran toughest Comp/ZS situation for any d since 05 lockout
Larsson
#20 D 25.94 Sa/60
#1 D 1.52 GA/60
top 12 PKGA D


Greene
#29 D 26.33 Sa/60
#3 D 1.60 GA/60
#54 D PKGA 6.54

Larsson Has better shot suppression; HSCA suppression; EVGA; PKGA

Deboer and Tmac had similar numbers from the Same HSCAD players Vlassic and Braun.

Vlasic and Braun the top 20 HSCAD that Tmac developed in Tmac's HSCA suppression System.

 

[oilerbear]

I would agree about his skating. He's not top tier but it is not really an issue.

I am always a little leery of the "he does not hit the net much claim" since our eyes can often deceive us if we have a predisposed idea of what a player is like. On this board it is often Yakupov who "misses the net all the time". Statistically though this is not accurate. In fact if anything Yak's issue has been that he hits the goalie's chest too often.

I looked at the ratio of shots on goal to misses. The following shows the career numbers of misses per successful SOG. (The lower the number the better):

Larsson .427
Subban .411
Keith .431
Phaneuf .491
Vlasic .599
Weber .480
Yandle .490
Byfuglien .425
Burns .473
Doughty .514

Now there are a couple of caveats to these numbers. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the count in any building but we should assume that with large sample sizes the error is relatively small. More significantly this does not differentiate between slap shots and wrist shots.

Who cares about D scoring.
they are usually shooting from the 0.1 to 8.5% shooting Success area know as the Low scoring chance area.
were 2/3 the shots get 1/4 the goals.

Look at the top 271 even producing players in the game.
261 are forwards
10 are Dmen
#10 Pk subban.

Even production:
Fwd EVG/60 .65
FWD EVA1/60 .52
FWD EVA2/60 .41
Dman EVA2/60 .31
Dman EVA1/60 .25
Dman EVG/60 .17

the more directly a forward is involved in a play the more likely we see a goal.
The more directly a dman is involved in a play the less likely we see a goal.
Dman are offence killers.
including the the 271st best even production player PK subban.

How fast should we be getting the puck to a Forward.
ASAP!

So Dman EVA are very important
Klefbom .70 EVA/60 top 30 D
Larsson .67 EVA/60 top 40 D

What is Dmens Primary purpose?
Defend the net.
Specificaly the area were 1/3 shot sget 75% of goals.
high scoring chance area. wthe shot success rate is above league average 8.5 to 20.0 %

We now have 3 top 60 HSCA D
Larsson top 10
Davidson top 30
Klefbom top 60

 

[Up the Irons]

Their is a difference between ridicule and calling a spade a spade, we traded a Ferrari for a Honda Civic with the optional leather package, dependable ride but lost value

More like a Mustang for a Ford pickup, and we have a lot of junk to haul.

 

[Up the Irons]

So that is your opinion!

Opinion; def: Point of view not based on facts or Knowledge

Fayne and Greene played under Deboer in New jersey.
11-2 to 13-14
Fayne
#1 HSCAD
#5 23.09 SA/60
2.20 EVGA/60
#9 PKGA

Greene
Top 10 HSCAD
#4 22.61 SA/60 D
2.11 EVGA/60
#16 PKGA

Greene had better shot suppression and EVGA

Fayne and Larsson
14-15 to 15-16
they ran toughest Comp/ZS situation for any d since 05 lockout
Larsson
#20 D 25.94 Sa/60
#1 D 1.52 GA/60
top 12 PKGA D


Greene
#29 D 26.33 Sa/60
#3 D 1.60 GA/60
#54 D PKGA 6.54

Larsson Has better shot suppression; HSCA suppression; EVGA; PKGA

Deboer and Tmac had similar numbers from the Same HSCAD players Vlassic and Braun.

Vlasic and Braun the top 20 HSCAD that Tmac developed in Tmac's HSCA suppression System.

What the heck is HSCA?

 

[McFlyingV]

What the heck is HSCA?

High danger scoring chances against per 60.

 

[Up the Irons]

High danger scoring chances against per 60.

Tx bro

 

[Panda Bear]

I would love to see a team managed by Fourier, oilerbear and someone like dawgbone from the oilersnation/lowetide/coppernblue sphere.