Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap Part XLI *(Poll added 2/12)*

[Langway]

Is that really the case. I was going off of numbers and reviews without really seeing him. How about Panarin? I am guessing its about the same.

Both are probably bottom six depth types. They do have decent work rates IINM. If their winger depth takes a hit both are worth considering if the price is right.

It sounds like I missed the stuff about Caps' interest in Kane.. was there interest?

Reportedly they were interested before and after the recent controversy.

The bigger concern when it comes to development is skill development. Wilson's skills have not progressed at all and he's the big project of the lot. Maybe some of that's just on the player...Beagle did a lot of puck work in the summer and it's paying off. But the staff needs to push their pace and crispness rather than bark about work ethic and grinding. Wilson getting scratched is to me a good start at least in recognizing he needs to bring a lot more.

Is Barber that valuable to the team as a RW considering Vrana is tearing up the SHL right now? And Galiev is finally showing he has NHL potential?

Barber likely has a shorter ETA than Vrana due to style of play and who knows whether Trotz will ever give Galiev a serious chance. Galiev is more likely trade bait, although that would impact Hershey's competitiveness. Along with Brown, they probably don't need all of them. I just think Barber is the most versatile of that group.

I'd really rather not trade the ~20th overall pick for a rental. They could survive without it but if used wisely it would provide further depth and trade flexibility in the near future. Lots of potential value.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Look at our mid/late 1st round picks:

Carlson, Green, Bura, Varlamov, Forsberg, MJ, Kuz, Wilson etc

Would you trade a player like that along with a player like Eakin for a rental?

The guys in charge need to be able to determine which players will pan out and which won't. Then they need to hold on to the good ones. If they aren't good enough at their jobs to make that determination then they should lose their jobs.

I'd rather McLellan show us his ability now then hide it for the next 14 years.

 

[BobRouse]

I am strongly coming around to Vermette.

1) He can play 2C if Kuznetsov slows down/isn't as effective in the postseason. If not, he slides over to wing no problem.

2) Faceoffs. Big weakness. Remember Game 6 against the Rangers in the ECSF a few years ago?

3) Vermette re-signs for a 4 year, maybe even 3 year, deal. I like that a lot better than committing to projects like ROR or Kadri for 8 years.

4) Vermette gives us a lot of lineup flexibility as he can play in any spot on the 2nd or 3rd lines.

5) He's a finished product who has played 3 years under Tippett and a couple under Hitch. He likely steps in without missing a beat.

Vermette wants 4+ years at $6 mil. He's 32 and is seeing more and more of his production come on the PP.

He will cost a 1st and a good prospect.

The guys in charge need to be able to determine which players will pan out and which won't. Then they need to hold on to the good ones. If they aren't good enough at their jobs to make that determination then they should lose their jobs.

I'd rather McLellan show us his ability now then hide it for the next 14 years.

So basically you want BMac to make a trade now so you can evaluate how good of a GM he is and how he evaluates guys we have already drafted?

I'm not really understanding this.

 

[txpd]

has fehr failed at his current role and need replaced? I don't see it. don't fix it.
is kuz showing he is center? seems to be looking pretty good right now.
is kuz ready to carry that center role in a competitive playoffs? probably not.

vermette as a rental makes perfect sense.

vermette as a long term center piece isn't necessary.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Vermette wants 4+ years at $6 mil. He's 32 and is seeing more and more of his production come on the PP.

He will cost a 1st and a good prospect.

His PP production is up this year on a garbage team sitting 29th in the league at even strength production. I can hardly blame him.

Your contract assumptions are speculation that don't bother me with Ward and Green out. The return is to be determined.

 

[hb12xchamps]

Vermette wants 4+ years at $6 mil. He's 32 and is seeing more and more of his production come on the PP.

He will cost a 1st and a good prospect.

He is going to nothing but regress and not be worth that 6 mil. Please don't blow the farm for this guy, let some other team do it

 

[BobRouse]

His PP production is up this year on a garbage team sitting 29th in the league at even strength production. I can hardly blame him.

Your contract assumptions are speculation that doesn't bother me with Ward and Green out. The return is to be determined.

Well thats what his agent or McKenzie reported.

He's 32 years old. His production is on the decline already.

Racking up PP points on a garbage team isn't something to be proud of. He's not going to get those opportunities here.

You think Brouwer sucks in the playoffs right? If you think Brouwer sucks then you better think Vermette sucks there too since they have similar production.

Vermette's best days are behind him.

He is going to nothing but regress and not be worth that 6 mil. Please don't blow the farm for this guy, let some other team do it

I agree. $6 mil for a 32 year old forward for multiple years is not a wise decision.

We may as well hold onto that money and wait for a younger player like ROR to hit UFA and give that money to him.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Well thats what his agent or McKenzie reported.

Do you have a link for that? or more detail as to when McKenzie commented on it?

 

[hb12xchamps]

Hopefully they are entertaining the idea of trading Mojo for an upgrade. I'm sure there are teams out there who see his potential and would be willing to start a deal around him. Guy just isn't working out. He was god awful in the game on Sunday.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

No way to trading for Vermette if he doesn't agree to a contract in advance. Total garbage to throw away top assets for a guy on the wrong side of 30 and looking for one final payday.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

So basically you want BMac to make a trade now so you can evaluate how good of a GM he is and how he evaluates guys we have already drafted?

I'm not really understanding this.

The team should have no fear trading prospects because they should have a good idea of what their future development looks like. They will obviously restrict themselves to the ones that aren't good fits/bets. Unless they're incompetent.

 

[txpd]

No way to trading for Vermette if he doesn't agree to a contract in advance. Total garbage to throw away top assets for a guy on the wrong side of 30 and looking for one final payday.

explain. Kuznetsov is still growing into his center role but he is growing into it. Fehr is having a career year at his position. Neither of these players need to be moved for the long term.

you are against a quality short term fix for kuznetsov and would prefer to replace him entirely at that spot?

 

[txpd]

The team should have no fear trading prospects because they should have a good idea of what their future development looks like. They will obviously restrict themselves to the ones that aren't good fits/bets. Unless they're incompetent.

logic then says that if trade partners are asking for the prospects that BMac judges as keepers there will be no trade.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

logic then says that if trade partners are asking for the prospects that BMac judges as keepers there will be no trade.

His job is to make the determination which is more valuable to the team in the near and long term.

This isn't difficult.

 

[BobRouse]

Do you have a link for that? or more detail as to when McKenzie commented on it?

"This looking ahead means being open to trades for a player such as Vermette since he is to be an unrestricted free agent July 1, and contract talks seem to be at a standstill with Vermette's demands of around $6 million per year."This looking ahead means being open to trades for a player such as Vermette since he is to be an unrestricted free agent July 1, and contract talks seem to be at a standstill with Vermette's demands of around $6 million per year.

http://matchupmarty.sportsblog.com/posts/1541890/with_the_perron_deal_done__is_antoine_vermette_next_.html


8. This may not, however, affect Maloney’s immediate decision-making. The organization is realistic about where this season is going, so it doesn’t make a ton of sense to spend extra now.

Other clubs believe the decision is already made to trade Antoine Vermette, as the team is unwilling to meet his asking price (in the $6-million range). There’s a lot of interest, obviously, with several of the usual suspects already mentioned, such as Boston, Detroit and St. Louis. Saw New Jersey mentioned, but does it really make sense for the Devils to give up the young assets/draft picks Arizona would want?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-coyotes-vermette-a-wanted-man/

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

explain. Kuznetsov is still growing into his center role but he is growing into it. Fehr is having a career year at his position. Neither of these players need to be moved for the long term.

you are against a quality short term fix for kuznetsov and would prefer to replace him entirely at that spot?

I am against a quality short term fix for Kuznetsov. I think Vermette would be too expensive, and we'd have the same holes next year if he walks with fewer assets to try and fill those holes. If we do decide to do upgrade Kuz at 2C, do it long term.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

"This looking ahead means being open to trades for a player such as Vermette since he is to be an unrestricted free agent July 1, and contract talks seem to be at a standstill with Vermette's demands of around $6 million per year."This looking ahead means being open to trades for a player such as Vermette since he is to be an unrestricted free agent July 1, and contract talks seem to be at a standstill with Vermette's demands of around $6 million per year.

http://matchupmarty.sportsblog.com/posts/1541890/with_the_perron_deal_done__is_antoine_vermette_next_.html


8. This may not, however, affect Maloney’s immediate decision-making. The organization is realistic about where this season is going, so it doesn’t make a ton of sense to spend extra now.

Other clubs believe the decision is already made to trade Antoine Vermette, as the team is unwilling to meet his asking price (in the $6-million range). There’s a lot of interest, obviously, with several of the usual suspects already mentioned, such as Boston, Detroit and St. Louis. Saw New Jersey mentioned, but does it really make sense for the Devils to give up the young assets/draft picks Arizona would want?

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-coyotes-vermette-a-wanted-man/

Still doesn't touch on term. $6 million for a 2nd liner is fine with me. He'll be 33 this offseason with one major injury 7 years behind him and steady production. I'm fine with it.

Especially as I don't see any other alternatives out there that are good system fits with 2nd line talent now or this offseason.

 

[txpd]

His job is to make the determination which is more valuable to the team in the near and long term.

This isn't difficult.

thats his job. you were suggesting getting vermette and extending him. that was your suggestion and it was that which I questioned.

 

[BobRouse]

Still doesn't touch on term. $6 million for a 2nd liner is fine with me. He'll be 33 this offseason with one major injury 7 years behind him and steady production. I'm fine with it.

Everything I have heard was 4+ years at around $6 million.

Production will dive considerably when we are talking forwards and that historically has been the case. Vermette is not above Father Time.

We sign him to that deal you suggest and within a year you and everyone else on here will try to find creative ways to dump his contract.

 

[HunterSThompson]

Brouwer has one more year left on his contract. Ward will likely be gone.

We traded away a similar player in Eakin.

Not to mention a 1st round pick in a deep draft (especially with the success rate of our 1st round picks over the last 10 years) is going to be a good player.

So we'd be giving up 2 good young cost controlled NHL players for a couple months of a good, not great, player.

Look at our mid/late 1st round picks:

Carlson, Green, Bura, Varlamov, Forsberg, MJ, Kuz, Wilson etc

Would you trade a player like that along with a player like Eakin for a rental?

To be fair, you can do that exercise the other way as well.

Look at our mid/late 1st round picks:

Gustafsson, Pokuluk, Finley, Schultz

Would you trade a player like that along with Theo Ruth for a rental

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Everything I have heard was 4+ years at around $6 million.

Production will dive considerably when we are talking forwards and that historically has been the case. Vermette is not above Father Time.

We sign him to that deal you suggest and within a year you and everyone else on here will try to find creative ways to dump his contract.

I'm dreading Ovechkin's preciptous decline in 2 years.

 

[Langway]

To be fair, you can do that exercise the other way as well.

Look at our mid/late 1st round picks:

Gustafsson, Pokuluk, Finley, Schultz

Would you trade a player like that along with Theo Ruth for a rental

The most recent of those picks is 2008...seven drafts ago. They tend to know what they're doing in the first round these days. After that maybe not so much.

 

[BobRouse]

To be fair, you can do that exercise the other way as well.

Look at our mid/late 1st round picks:

Gustafsson, Pokuluk, Finley, Schultz

Would you trade a player like that along with Theo Ruth for a rental

True but you have to admit our success rates have been tremendous.

But I'm not even sure I'd call a guy who's played 400+ NHL games a bust if he was a very late 1st rounder like Schultz.

The most recent of those picks is 2008...seven drafts ago. They tend to know what they're doing in the first round these days. After that maybe not so much.

Well how many teams really crush it past the 1st?

I mean we got MP, Holtby, Eakin, Orlov, Neuvirth, Grubauer, Barber, Carrick etc We have CLEARLY improved there.

Remember before the lockout McPhee basically hit on 1 non 1st rounder in the prior 7 or 8 years (Pettinger).

In the last 10 years we have been a very good drafting team period.


When was the last time we crapped out on a 1st? Gustafsson? Bura, Kuz and Wilson look to be NHL players for sure. We will see about Vrana.

Carlson and Green are/were/could be norris contenders.

Varlamov almost won a vezina and was very good for us.

Forsberg...

MJ is certainly an NHL player. I'm mean we're batting .700 at least right?

I'm dreading Ovechkin's preciptous decline in 2 years.

Ovie will decline as even he cant stop time.

But I'm fairly sure I'd take a 33 year old Ovechkin over a peak Vermette.

 

[HunterSThompson]

The most recent of those picks is 2008...seven drafts ago. They tend to know what they're doing in the first round these days. After that maybe not so much.

I know but expecting a hit every time is a bit foolhardy.

 

[HunterSThompson]

True but you have to admit our success rates have been tremendous.

But I'm not even sure I'd call a guy who's played 400+ NHL games a bust if he was a very late 1st rounder like Schultz.

When was the last time we crapped out on a 1st? Gustafsson? Bura, Kuz and Wilson look to be NHL players for sure. We will see about Vrana.

Carlson and Green are/were/could be norris contenders.

Varlamov almost won a vezina and was very good for us.

Forsberg...

MJ is certainly an NHL player. I'm mean we're batting .700 at least right?

I agree, but is it unsustainable small sample size, or are they actually that good? You still have to treat picks as maybes. They end up having a lot of value in trades despite the roll of the dice.