Accountability for Oshie but not for DA or Hitch

[carter333167]

So, apparently our bomb out in the first round of the playoffs is b/c of......TJ Oshie.

The coach was not the problem...he just got a 1 year extension.

The GM was not the problem....he is proceeding forward with the same coach and essentially the same squad as last year.

TJ Oshie questioned Hitch for delivering mixed messages (with which I actually agree--Hitch says diametrically opposite things from one presser to the next) and he gets shipped off for a bad return which sends the message that he was a problem (addition by subtraction) I was in favor of trading Oshie but only for fair value or prospects.

Nothing about DA or Hitch passes the smell test anymore (we need to play reckless, blah, blah blah) and the fact that they are not accepting any of the blame themselves will likely lead to a disenchanted locker room in the coming year.

Click to read more...

 

[STL BLUES]

Yep; and at what point do the fans get restless (Not Reckless ) and Stillman gets it? Hopefully, before more damage is done.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

So, apparently our bomb out in the first round of the playoffs is b/c of......TJ Oshie.

The coach was not the problem...he just got a 1 year extension.

The GM was not the problem....he is proceeding forward with the same coach and essentially the same squad as last year.

TJ Oshie questioned Hitch for delivering mixed messages (with which I actually agree--Hitch says diametrically opposite things from one presser to the next) and he gets shipped off for a bad return which sends the message that he was a problem (addition by subtraction) I was in favor of trading Oshie but only for fair value or prospects.

Nothing about DA or Hitch passes the smell test anymore (we need to play reckless, blah, blah blah) and the fact that they are not accepting any of the blame themselves will likely lead to a disenchanted locker room in the coming year.

There's no doubt that Hitchcock and by association Armstrong are on the hot seat this season. Fine.

But to extrapolate press conference messages into the message he is giving the team in the many coaching sessions and team meetings, and assume we have a clear idea of what Hitchcock's message to Oshie (and the team) has been....huh?

I don't see any evidence that Armstrong nor Hitchcock are not being held accountable. If the team peters out this year, I expect we'll see a new coach next season for sure, and likely a new GM.

This core has gone through a few coaches. I am not sure I agree with bringing Hitchcock back, but I can at least understand how the team could come to the conclusion that its the core that needed to change.

I'd like to see the end of the off-season changes before we start posting rants like this. Even then, I'd rather see this team's performance post-changes before passing judgement. For hell's sake, there may be another significant trade in a day for all we know.

Unless this is Oshie's mom posting (in which case I sincerely apologize), there's no way to absolve him of his share of the blame for the team's failures in the post-season. I also think that the Oshie-Hitchcock pair had to be split up, after how the post-series public messages went down. Armstrong went with Hitchcock. (Shattenkirk also voiced his support for Hitch.) Are they correct?

Armstrong is either going to look like a smart guy who was willing to make the less popular move, or like a guy whose judgement was clouded by his personal affinity for Hitchcock. If the return for Oshie were a more flashy name, I don't think this thread gets started. So then its less about feeling Oshie was unfairly a trade target, and more about being generally disgruntled.

I'm feeling about as hopeless for next season as anyone, but I'm relieved a change to a top 6 player was made.

 

[Meatwagon]

Yep; and at what point do the fans get restless (Not Reckless ) and Stillman gets it? Hopefully, before more damage is done.

I voted today with my money, which is the only thing that matters to millionaires and I urge others to do the same.

If there is a dramatic drop in attendance, maybe then Stillman will get the message.

One can only hope.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I voted today with my money, which is the only thing that matters to millionaires and I urge others to do the same.

If there is a dramatic drop in attendance, maybe then Stillman will get the message.

One can only hope.

You keep advertising the cancellation of your season tickets. Its your choice, but I think it reflects poorly on you if the reason was the Oshie trade.

 

[Chippewa]

I won't be buying tickets for the first time since I moved back to St. Louis. My mind was made up when Hitch was brought back. The moves (or more......the lack thereof) made since then have only reinforced that decision.

Hopefully the ownership group understands what they are doing, because it seems like I'm far from the only one.

 

[Meatwagon]

You keep advertising the cancellation of your season tickets. Its your choice, but I think it reflects poorly on you if the reason was the Oshie trade.

I've said it in other threads.

It's really has nothing to do with the trading of Oshie, I expected Oshie to be traded. It's the collective pile of garbage that Armstrong has spewed and his horrible decisions. I will not support this team financially with him at the helm. The Oshie trade is just a symbol of his ineptitude, and frankly I've had enough and don't want to give them any more $$

If that reflects poorly on me, that's fine. But I will not continue to throw good money after bad, if McDonalds gave you food poisoning every time you ate there, would you continue to go back? Maybe it's mental health thing for me, I'm just tired of investing so much time, emotion, money, etc just to have it wasted. Those things are important to me and I'm tired of wasting them. If that's considered a poor reflection of character, so be it, but hafter 25+ years of crushing dissappoinment and multiple years of significant monetary resources, to me at least, I'm deciding to move on for now. I don't do this lightly, I love the Blues, and hockey maybe some distance will be beneficial. I guess I'll find out soon, I will admit though, my winters will be a little more boring and I was really looking forward to taking my son to games. Maybe my opinion will change, maybe it won't. But i definitely need space from this team and this is how I'm showing my displeasure. Maybe my canceling is a small, insignificant blip on the radar of an NHL club, but after talking to my sales rep, a lot of people are having the same reaction. What "a lot" of people actually equates too? I don't know, but it was enough for him to mention it.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

I empathize with a lot of what you're saying here. Sorry if my earlier post sounded judgemental.

My own enthusiasm is tenuous, but I will probably, hopefully, have resurgence of hope and interest when the season starts.

 

[zachws6]

Today is the lowest I've felt as a Blues fan since 07ish. I feel empty. Nothing seems right at all. Our "elite" team is falling apart until proven otherwise.

 

[Borderbluesfan]

Haven't Oshie/Backes been failing in the playoffs before we had Hitch/Armstrong? Oshie while a fan favorite has always been underwhelming as a first line player getting first line minutes. Great assist guy, but doesn't put up eye-popping goals numbers. We get a 3rd line player that has put up more goals the last couple of seasons than our first line winger who only has good numbers because of his assists. Center should be putting up big assist numbers, not wing. 1st line wing should be putting up bigger goal totals. Maybe it is time for management to start saying that it is time to get rid of a lot of St. Louis fan favorites that don't produce what is expected from them.

 

[542365]

Haven't Oshie/Backes been failing in the playoffs before we had Hitch/Armstrong? Oshie while a fan favorite has always been underwhelming as a first line player getting first line minutes. Great assist guy, but doesn't put up eye-popping goals numbers. We get a 3rd line player that has put up more goals the last couple of seasons than our first line winger who only has good numbers because of his assists. Center should be putting up big assist numbers, not wing. 1st line wing should be putting up bigger goal totals. Maybe it is time for management to start saying that it is time to get rid of a lot of St. Louis fan favorites that don't produce what is expected from them.

As has been pointed out several times, he had one more goal than Patrik Berglund last season at even strength while playing 5 more games, and 3 more minutes per game. His goal totals are inflated from playing on the best PP unit in the league.

 

[EastonBlues22]

As has been pointed out several times, he had one more goal than Patrik Berglund last season at even strength while playing 5 more games, and 3 more minutes per game. His goal totals are inflated from playing on the best PP unit in the league.

Almost nailed it, but Berglund actually had one more goal than Brouwer.

 

[542365]

Almost nailed it, but Berglund actually had one more goal than Brouwer.

Ahh, I see my mistake, Brouwer had two short handed goals which screwed up my quick math from NHL.com

 

[417blues]

What we need is for Armstrong to score more playoff goals.

 

[Sutter Brother]

goaltending plain and simple - has not been good enough in the playoffs

 

[TheDizee]

goaltending plain and simple - has not been good enough in the playoffs

it was good enough for games 1-4 and the offense failed in 2 of those games.

then they both threw in the towel for games 5 and 6.

 

[Majorityof1]

The accountability for Oshie is pure and simple scapegoating. The entire team is at fault except for a few. Hitchcock has been severely outcoached in terms of changes and strategy. Armstrong has made moves that actively hurt us (Miller). Backes, Steen, and Stasny don't show up in the playoffs regularly. Berglund has one good series and is a playoff god to some on here. Yet Oshie takes the lions share of the blame.

Oshie is NOT a goal-scorer. He cannot get points if the other players don't score goals. Vids have been posted of Steen missing open shots in the playoffs that would have gotten Oshie assists. Further, Hitchcock's playoff system runs counter to his play style. He is also being put out against the top line of the top team in the west for over half his playoff games. He has been injured for several playoff games as well, including being really hurt last year.

Lets look at his games played.
'09: 4 games as a rookie. So he really should have been lighting it up his rookie year
'12: 5 games against SJ, then we got steamrolled in 4 by dominant Kings team with Quick on fire
'13: 6 games against defending Stanley cup Kings, Quick again on fire.
'14: 5 games against Chicago, missed first game due to injury and rushed back before he was ready.
'15: 6 games against the wild.

So if we take out his rookie year, games playing against one of the most dominating playoff goalies while he was on fire, and game splaying injured against Toews line, all he has are two series. That kind of track record is going to skew anyone's data down especially when coupled with the other factors. He has 5 points in the other 11 games, which isn't great but isn't terrible. Does he need to get better in the playoffs, yes. Does he need to ultimately find a way to win against the best teams, yes. But its hard to do when your linemates aren't doing anything either and your coach is hamstringing you at every turn. I totally understand why he would speak out against Hitch. It sounds really frustrating to me.

 

[Vladdy the Impaler]

Still no accountability for Army + Hitch, but everyone wants to go out and trash our best player for simply getting frustrated with a broken system that has failed 5 years running now....

 

[Note Worthy]

Still no accountability for Army + Hitch, but everyone wants to go out and trash our best player for simply getting frustrated with a broken system that has failed 5 years running now....

People "trashed" our best player because he was a no-show in the WCF. I don't recall people being upset with him about getting into it with Hitch on the bench.

 

[KingBran]

Didn't you hear? WE MADE THE PLAYOFFS! YAY!!!!


That means everything is just right and everyone deserves a 6th chance! PLAYOFFS ARE AS GOOD AS WINNING THE CUP!

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Didn't you hear? WE MADE THE PLAYOFFS! YAY!!!!


That means everything is just right and everyone deserves a 6th chance! PLAYOFFS ARE AS GOOD AS WINNING THE CUP!

Your standard seems to be the ridiculous dichotomy of 1)win the Cup vs 2) abject failure. If the Blues had lost in the SCF is that in the same bin with this postseason?

We shall see if Armstrong is vindicated in this decision. I'm a bit surprised, but that's because I thought they'd already established Hitch would retire. I guess the info leaked was exaggerated.

But you have to be pretty willfully blind to not see that the team took an important step forward this year. When they do win the Cup, it will be in large part to building on the back of this experience. Hitch is part of that, even for those who wish it were otherwise. Unless there is a better candidate available and willing, looks like one more year.

 

[KingBran]

Your standard seems to be the ridiculous dichotomy of 1)win the Cup vs 2) abject failure. If the Blues had lost in the SCF is that in the same bin with this postseason?

We shall see if Armstrong is vindicated in this decision. I'm a bit surprised, but that's because I thought they'd already established Hitch would retire. I guess the info leaked was exaggerated.

But you have to be pretty willfully blind to not see that the team took an important step forward this year. When they do win the Cup, it will be in large part to building on the back of this experience. Hitch is part of that, even for those who wish it were otherwise. Unless there is a better candidate available and willing, looks like one more year.

Yes I want a cup. Been a Blues fan for a VERY long time. This year was the best chance they have had that I have seen. 2001 it wasn't going to happen. The Blues are a better team than the Sharks, Pens and Lightning. It was their shot and they failed... again. So lets keep the coach that has failed for the previous 5 seasons.

 

[trevorftw]

I heard all of this last year. I think about 1/3 of you predicted the blues would miss the playoffs.

I'm glad still an isn't fickle or impatient enough to make the decisions some of you are suggesting. Hitch is a good coach. Armstrong is judged negatively for the Oshie trade when the majority of fans wanted him traded after the end of last season.

When this fan base has run plenty of good coaches (and goalies) out of town, I feel like most fans should focus their passion in other aspects of the team they love, rather than encourage boycotts.

The Stillman ownership group seems to have spoiled some of you. I'm very happy considering the team spends to the cap and retains who they believe gives them the best chance to win. This team has been bleeding money for as long as I can remember.

Criticism is important to maintain progress. I have no problem with any of you wanting a new g.m. or coach, but the encouragement of others to cancel their ticket packages is shameful. The blues' online community did the same thing for Andy Murray, kitchen, and even Quinneville.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. Ill leave this thread alone after this post. Just consider the implications of what you're doing. Do you really know better than the people making the tough decisions? I assure you, fans' opinions are taken into consideration without such drastic actions.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Yes I want a cup. Been a Blues fan for a VERY long time. This year was the best chance they have had that I have seen. 2001 it wasn't going to happen. The Blues are a better team than the Sharks, Pens and Lightning. It was their shot and they failed... again. So lets keep the coach that has failed for the previous 5 seasons.

We all want a Cup. Some of us have been waiting several decades, too.

But when I look around the league, I see teams having to go through a process before they learn how to win. The Kings are the exception. More often it's like the Hawks. Or the Penguins. Where they come close and then come back with something more the next time. That's what I'm looking for from the Blues. Can they build on this?

I bet Tarsenko has a better postseason next year. I bet the team shows more killer instinct when they have the chance to close out an opponent. If I knew a better candidate to coach the team, I'd complain. But I have yet to see ONE better option mentioned by the complainers.

Why not savor the positives from this postseason, rather than be so melodramatic and treat the run like excrement? It was NOT the same as a first round loss.

 

[Majorityof1]

If I knew a better candidate to coach the team, I'd complain. But I have yet to see ONE better option mentioned by the complainers.

Did you think Deboer's would be better than McLellan last year? Several people wanted McLellan, but nobody mentioned Deboers. Did you think Sullivan was going to take a team to the Stanley Cup if someone just gave him the chance? One of those is going to win a Cup, and both were available last year. But I don't recall you or anyone thinking they were a good choice. So maybe our ability, yours, mine and pretty much the whole board's ability to judge who is the right replacement is not perfect.

And the complainers have mentioned other options. There is a whole thread dedicated to it. Just because you don't find them better and thus don't want to complain, doesn't mean someone else doesn't find them better. Do you begrudge someone else their right to complain just because you don't see their choice as a better option? We have already established we are not all-seeing in knowing who is the best choice for a coach. By what standard does a coach need to be better before we can complain?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but this "no better coach" line is as much garbage as the "losing is losing no matter how far you get" line. There are dozens of potential coaches out there. You cannot possibly have enough information on all of them to form an educated opinion that none would be better than Hitchcock. I would bet an obscene amount that you couldn't, without research, describe the coaching styles, tendencies and philosophies of even 1/2 the potential coaches mentioned in the possible coaches thread. Am I wrong? And if I'm right that you don't know their style, how can you objectively make an argument that they wouldn't be better?