About Hakstol

[Ghosts Beer]

I hate Hak's deference to veterans. I hate Hextall's deference to vets even more.

There's a lot to dislike about Hakstol, but he's the fall guy here for a shitty roster. Amazing how much people shift roster decisions on Hak when Hextall is the one who is in charge.

 

[deadhead]

It also works the other way around as well.with young players. Hakjob took a risk benching because he could have easily shattered his confidence and wrecked him.

Would you still be defending this buffoon had he destroyed Ghost?

And he does play favorites. He didn't bench Provorov at all despite a horrific first couple months before he started adjusting.

If benching Ghost for a couple games destroyed his confidence, bye bye. He'd never make it in the NHL if he's that weak willed.

Provorov didn't get benched because he had the mental toughness to bounce back and the focus to quickly learn from his mistakes and improve.
Most of his mistakes were physical, getting used to NHL speed, otherwise Provocop has a hockey IQ that's off the charts, even when he was struggling, he was fundamentally sound with his positioning, body use and angles.

Ghost has never been fundamentally sound like Provocop, he's overly reliant on his speed to cover for his mistakes, he would stick check instead of taking the body and riding the opposing player past the net and preventing him from getting a shot off. Later last year, Ghost did start playing better defensively, taking better angles and playing his man, not the puck. He's going to be limited by his size, but his quickness and agility allow him to be effective in "open" ice when he plays responsibly. However, you don't want him on the PK or at the end of games when opponents gamble and throw an extra man into the O-zone.

 

[VoiceOfTheFlyers]

If benching Ghost for a couple games destroyed his confidence, bye bye. He'd never make it in the NHL if he's that weak willed.

Provorov didn't get benched because he had the mental toughness to bounce back and the focus to quickly learn from his mistakes and improve.
Most of his mistakes were physical, getting used to NHL speed, otherwise Provocop has a hockey IQ that's off the charts, even when he was struggling, he was fundamentally sound with his positioning, body use and angles.

Ghost has never been fundamentally sound like Provocop, he's overly reliant on his speed to cover for his mistakes, he would stick check instead of taking the body and riding the opposing player past the net and preventing him from getting a shot off. Later last year, Ghost did start playing better defensively, taking better angles and playing his man, not the puck. He's going to be limited by his size, but his quickness and agility allow him to be effective in "open" ice when he plays responsibly. However, you don't want him on the PK or at the end of games when opponents gamble and throw an extra man into the O-zone.

I agree you don't want Ghost on the PK but Provorov was nothing short of horrible for the first two months. His positioning and angles were glaringly bad. He was atrocious with traffic in front of the net. Probably because he couldn't handle the physicality. He still has trouble there.

Whatever the reasons for it, Ghost was never that bad at any point. Yet he got benched. Multiple times. For Brandon Manning. By Dave Hakjob.

 

[VoiceOfTheFlyers]

I wanted to believe in him. He has let us all down.

Multiple times in multiple ways.

 

[Magua]

Provorov was nothing short of horrible for the first two months. His positioning and angles were glaringly bad. He was atrocious with traffic in front of the net. Probably because he couldn't handle the physicality. He still has trouble there.

say what

 

[VoiceOfTheFlyers]

say what

What?

 

[Magua]

What?

You're saying Provorov has trouble with the physicality of the NHL?

 

[VoiceOfTheFlyers]

You're saying Provorov has trouble with the physicality of the NHL?

With traffic in front of the net, he absolutely does. It was a problem for him right up until the end of the season.

Edit: To add to this, I can't recall a single instance where he was able to successfully clear the porch. I watched all 82 games too.

 

[deadhead]

Provorov is not a bruiser like Gudas, he seals players off using a great anchor, he does it riding guys past the net, cutting them off from the puck in the corner, and freezing them in front of the net and not allowing them to move. He's not going to send guys flying, but he's certainly very strong.

Ghost had a bad year until about his last month, don't believe me, just check his 5x5 GF and GA statistics, among the worst in the league in both areas. He had good possession numbers, but got stripped too much, made bad defensive plays, and wasn't the same guy he was his rookie season until the end of the year.

 

[VoiceOfTheFlyers]

Provorov is not a bruiser like Gudas, he seals players off using a great anchor, he does it riding guys past the net, cutting them off from the puck in the corner, and freezing them in front of the net and not allowing them to move. He's not going to send guys flying, but he's certainly very strong.

Ghost had a bad year until about his last month, don't believe me, just check his 5x5 GF and GA statistics, among the worst in the league in both areas. He had good possession numbers, but got stripped too much, made bad defensive plays, and wasn't the same guy he was his rookie season until the end of the year.

I think you're missing the point. No one is arguing Ghost didn't have a down year. What is being argued is that he wasn't ever as bad as Provorov was during the beginning of the year and he got benched but Provorov never did.

 

[Striiker]

Deadhead you're killing me.

I'm trying to be Striiker 2.0 who doesn't argue all the time but these posts man.

 

[deadhead]

I think you're missing the point. No one is arguing Ghost didn't have a down year. What is being argued is that he wasn't ever as bad as Provorov was during the beginning of the year and he got benched but Provorov never did.

Provorov had one nightmare game in the beginning of the year, but his problem was adjusting to NHL speed, not making fundamental mistakes. And it took him one month to make the adjustment. Even that first month, he was fundamentally sound, he just struggled with the pace of the NHL game. He had much tougher matchups, he played the most minutes, ES and PK, and he held his own. By December he was our best defenseman (Gudas was more productive, but Provorov got the tougher assignments).

Provorov wasn't even an offensive linchpin yet he still managed to put up 25 ES points.
Ghost only had 16 ES points.

 

[VoiceOfTheFlyers]

Provorov had one nightmare game in the beginning of the year, but his problem was adjusting to NHL speed, not making fundamental mistakes. And it took him one month to make the adjustment. Even that first month, he was fundamentally sound, he just struggled with the pace of the NHL game. He had much tougher matchups, he played the most minutes, ES and PK, and he held his own. By December he was our best defenseman (Gudas was more productive, but Provorov got the tougher assignments).

Provorov wasn't even an offensive linchpin yet he still managed to put up 25 ES points.
Ghost only had 16 ES points.

He had the nightmare game in the season opener vs. Chicago then went on to have a string of bad games after and was subpar for the first two months of the season.

Saying he eventually became our best defenseman sounds a little deceiving to me. Maybe he was but the fact is this defense was terrible so saying he was the best out of a terrible bunch really isn't much.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Pretty worried TK will have the offense coached outta him with Haks

 

[Striiker]

I don't think that's a realistic thing to worry about.

 

[bobbythebrain]

I don't think that's a realistic thing to worry about.

So last season and this pre-season has made optimistic? Don't see alot of top 6 minutes heading his way..especially if he makes a mistake or 2.

I could see TK being sacrificed for depth very easily

 

[Striiker]

So last season and this pre-season has made optimistic? Don't see alot of top 6 minutes heading his way..especially if he makes a mistake or 2.

I could see TK being sacrificed for depth very easily

Yeah, it has made me optimistic. Konecny showed a ton of potential last year and has been fantastic this preseason. I see no reason to worry about him.

 

[bobbythebrain]

All that potential from the 3rd line? I never questioned his potential as player. Only his usage. Thus far he has been bogged down on a terrible 3rd line. Thankfully he has a 2nd line pp to rely on

So again, care to explain why you're not worried? As somebody stated already. The team regressed in scoring with Haks. Last year dropping players like TK to the 4th line probably had a little to do with that...no?

He has the potential to be a 60 point player in the NHL. Hard to do that from the 3rd line usually

 

[kudymen]

Can anyone who remembers tell me what was Claude Giroux's line and linemates his first year? I honestly forgot.. thanks

 

[VoiceOfTheFlyers]

All that potential from the 3rd line? I never questioned his potential as player. Only his usage. Thus far he has been bogged down on a terrible 3rd line. Thankfully he has a 2nd line pp to rely on

So again, care to explain why you're not worried? As somebody stated already. The team regressed in scoring with Haks. Last year dropping players like TK to the 4th line probably had a little to do with that...no?

He has the potential to be a 60 point player in the NHL. Hard to do that from the 3rd line usually

I'm far less worried about any of the young guys than I am about the vets like G and V being able to bounce back.

 

[Magua]

Teek will overcome Weise and Flip.

Teek will overcome.

 

[VoiceOfTheFlyers]

Teek will overcome Weise and Flip.

Teek will overcome.

Travis Konecny. Defier of Odds.

 

[Striiker]

All that potential from the 3rd line? I never questioned his potential as player. Only his usage. Thus far he has been bogged down on a terrible 3rd line. Thankfully he has a 2nd line pp to rely on

So again, care to explain why you're not worried? As somebody stated already. The team regressed in scoring with Haks. Last year dropping players like TK to the 4th line probably had a little to do with that...no?

He has the potential to be a 60 point player in the NHL. Hard to do that from the 3rd line usually

I'm not worried because the title "3rd line" is meaningless these days. It's not like he's going to struggle to get minutes or exclusively play with grinders for the next few years.

Even if he remains on the "3rd line", which obviously isn't a sure thing since lineups change daily, sooner than later that's going to have some really good players on it.

 

[Appleyard]

Can anyone who remembers tell me what was Claude Giroux's line and linemates his first year? I honestly forgot.. thanks

2008-09?

Powe and Upshall to start (first ~20 games, first ~10 at wing, next ~10 at center)

Asham and Carcillo for a bit (next ~15 games, all at center)

To end the season he was with Briere and either Asham or Powe. Briere generally was at wing.

 

[Tripod]

He had the nightmare game in the season opener vs. Chicago then went on to have a string of bad games after and was subpar for the first two months of the season.

Saying he eventually became our best defenseman sounds a little deceiving to me. Maybe he was but the fact is this defense was terrible so saying he was the best out of a terrible bunch really isn't much.

You said you watched all 82 games, right? Well then shouldn't you know that Provy's game against Chicago was not the season opener, it was game 3. And in game 5, Provy had 2 assists and was 2nd star. So no, did not have a string of bad games afterwards. You are only remembering the bad games, not the good.

In November, Provy was playing way more good games vs poor. The fact that he was facing top lines with AMac all season and they were holding their own is a feat in itself.