A Scandinavian hockey league, realistic?

[robwangjing]

Since, from what I have seen online, there seems to be not that much enthusiasm with playing games against other nations in Europe. And there seems to be some disagreement from hockey fans that their teams should join the KHL or even a potential big wester European league.

But, has there ever been any concideration or talks of a Scandinavian league, with teams from Sweden and Finland or with also Norway and Denmark competing together?

I think this could be an indea to look further into.

I expect that there might still be some people that would disagree with this, stating that they would rather keep their own league and only play against well known teams from their own country.

But to keep in mind is that, especially on the pre-season a lot of teams from all four Scandinavian countries play against each other. And some games are very fun to watch.

So now I will just make an example of a leage, in short, that would include all four nations in a so called Scandianvian league.

Let's say that the top 12 teams from Sweden and the top 12 teams from Finland would play in this league. This gives up 24 teams in total. And if we would look for a similar model as the NHL has, this would give us another 3 teams from Norway and 3 from Denmark, with now a total of 30 teams in this league.

And then divide this into three divisions with 10 teams each or five divisions with 6 teams each.

A western division with 3 teams from Norway and 3 from Denmark. Two divisions in Sweden with 6 teams each and the same in Finland.

How the conferences should be divided up I have no clue though.

Or as I mentioned 3 divisions, west, central and eastern with 10 teams each. Somehow.

But the absolutely easiest would be to have 5 teams from Norway and 5 from Denmark to make up one division. 10 teams from Sweden to make one and 10 from Finland to make the last.

So, has there been any talks of this before?
Do you see this as realistic?
What do you think of my idea of the Scandi league?
Which are the biggest problems to be expected?
Any upside to this?

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[Franck]

There is zero interest and absolutely no chance of a united Scandinavian hockey league.

 

[Justinov]

I agree that a nordic league doesn't look likely currently.

One thing that could be a possibility was that you created a team in Copenhagen of Danish and Scanian players that started in Allsvenskan (if that was allowed?)
I would think matches Copenhagen-Røgle and Copenhagen-Malmø would be instant classics, but it wouldn't have any interest to the rest of Sweden spectatorwise.
It is also very doubtful that it would have the financials to make a team good enough for SHL (SEL).

 

[robwangjing]

I personally don't think that money would be much of a problem, but I have noticed that this is the first thing that Europeans, and Scandinavians in particular bring up when it comes to expansion or such. Seems like you are very concerned about economy of the clubs.

All that they need is a similar deal as SHL has now with C-more Sport(?), in which deal gives each club approximately 3 or 4 million € per season to spend.

And I would suppose that the top clubs in Denmark and Norway would at least have around 1 or 2 million € to operate on today. So I can't see how it could be any problem at all to sign up the best Danes and Norwegians for the top 3 clubs in each country with a budget of 4-5 million €. And use good Swedes and AHL imports.

Would just like to note that with the best Danes and Norwegians I mean those who play in Europe of course, most already in Sweden and Finland I think, not the NHL or KHL stars.

 

[Sucro]

Estonia having a team in such Nordic league would surely gather public interest to hockey there, even with Finnish and Latvian players in its roster. VHL-MHL wouldn't be an option because now hockey in this country is considered to be pro-soviet sport, playing in one league with their beloved northern brothers would change this attitude IMO and lure not only ethnic Russians living there to play, but common Estonians. Estonia has enough money to have a basketball team in VTB United league, so it should be possible for hockey as well.
I think some Russian northwestern regions might be willing to get a team joined a Scndinavian league as well, Petrozavodsk or Murmansk for example, the flight costs should be cheaper that in the VHL.
The scenarios of the league's creation can be (ofc I'm just speculating): a) the SHL becomes a closed league with no relegation, eventually getting teams from Denmark and Norway, then Finland follows its route and the leagues merge.
b) Top clubs from Denmark and Norway decide to unite in one league, then some teams from Allsvenskan like Malmö join it, but no further expansion
c) Some clubs from Sweden and Finland decide to unite in one league, then top teams from Denmark and Norway join

 

[robwangjing]

I like your scenarios Sucrologist, and in my mind none of them should be impossible to achieve if people in that region really want this.

Especially a team in Murmansk and a team in Estonia, I had not thought of this before but it seems like a good idea.

But I think the biggest problem if this would come to life would be that Sweden and Finland together could probably make a strong enough league without the need of Norway, Denmark, Estonia and Murmansk. And I think many Swedes and Finns would look at the other teams as if they just took spots in the new league from their own teams. In my mind this could be the biggest problem.

Also a Danish-Norwegian league I think should already have been made since long ago, with more co-operations between the two countries. They are very even in their development in hockey and could just get stronger by helping each other out. And by creating a league of their own with let's say the 5 strongest teams from each country the level of play would rise a lot. Or just keep the two leagues intact with their 10 teams each and use them as two conferences, and the winner of each conference wins the Norwegiand and Danish gold. It could be made very simple. And they just play one less game against their own countries teams and one extra game against the other countries teams.

Or as you mentioned also add some teams from Allsvenskan, perhaps Malmö and Karlskoga which are both near the border.

Since you mentioned Murmansk and Estonia, the Scandinavian league could be made up of just 1 team from lets say Murmansk, Estonia, Norway and Denmark and then have 26 teams from Sweden and Finland. I think Swedes and Finns would be more pleased by this as most of their top teams would be represented in this league. But I would rather see more Danish and Norwegian teams, at least 3 each, because I know they could scramble up some really good national player and use AHL imports to make good competitive teams.

But so few Scandinavians have commented in this thread and the only two positive to this league is me and a Russian. I guess this proves this will never be a reality.

 

[Justinov]

The big problem for the Danish Hockey League are finances, especially after the 2007 economic crises.
Going around in Denmark on bus to play matches is ok, since many players on the team are actually semi professionels. Most club doesn't have more than 2000 spectators for matches and some of the Copenhagen clubs play for 500. During the lockout with NHL players coming over (Colin Greening and Zack Smith) we saw some of the leading Jutland teams play for 5000 for the top match.
Numbers for 2011-12: The average in the Danish Hockey League (all season) is 1500.

Copenhagen Hockey just went bankrupt. Rungsted that went bankrupt some years ago but tries a comeback this year.

I simply don't think the clubs could afford going to Norway to play matches, so a Danish-Norwegian League has a big problem with travelling costs.

That's why I think a stacked and backed Copenhagen (or Herning?) team in Allsvenskan would be an option. But that would make the Danish League in even more trouble financially.

I don't think any Danish team would go for KHL yet, because of the economic uncertainty. But if Denmark gets the WC in 2018 and it is a success and the world looks great financially then maybe.......

 

[QnebO]

But so few Scandinavians have commented in this thread and the only two positive to this league is me and a Russian. I guess this proves this will never be a reality.

There has been discussions about this in Sweden-board. I think it would be great to see some Finland-Sweden league, with teams from Norway and Denmark.

Sweden: ~10-13 teams
Finland: ~8-11 teams
Norway: 1-2 teams
Denmark: 1 team

Teams could be shared in two conferences (Finland and Sweden (east west) conference). They would play more inside the conference but also between conference games alot. Would be very good. Countries share pretty similiar culture so I think it would be more interesting than KHL for example is right now for most of us in Finland.
Don't see this happening though, but if it could, would love it.

 

[Bank]

Just for the quantity of voices raised: The money in Danish hockey is simply to few and I don't think anybody thinks a move into Elitserien, the KHL or a new Scandinavian league would create enough "new" interest from potential sponsors, TV viewers or fans to make up for that. Perhaps a team or two from Jutland could make it but I don't see such a project co-exist with the Danish League as competition. The appeal of Swedish/Russian/Norwegian teams simply isn't bigger than the rivalries in Denmark IMO.

Sorry to be such a downer guys

 

[bordshockeypampen]

I've been dreaming of a two-level Scandinavian league.

With the top level mainly consisting of teams from Elitserien and SM-Liiga.
And the second level with teams from Denmark, Norway, HockeyAllsvenskan and Mestis.

And promotion and relegation between the levels (and between the second level and the national systems). So that the best Norwegian and Danish teams can play at the top level when they are good enough.

Each level should be divided in geographical divisions to reduce travelling costs.

But it is not going to happen The fans, sponsors and media are too nationally interested.

 

[EvilDead]

How bad could the state of hockey in Denmark be if they are in the championship division in the IIHF World Rankings?

 

[Justinov]

How bad could the state of hockey in Denmark be if they are in the championship division in the IIHF World Rankings?

Well to have a major team up running, then you need finances and supporter numbers and Denmark is not close to have big figures yet in either.

 

[EvilDead]

Well to have a major team up running, then you need finances and supporter numbers and Denmark is not close to have big figures yet in either.

And I would assume this major team should preferably be in the capital city of Copenhagen, no?

 

[Jonimaus]

And I would assume this major team should preferably be in the capital city of Copenhagen, no?

"Capital city of Copenhagen"? It would have to be put in the capital city of Denmark, Copenhagen.

 

[EvilDead]

"Capital city of Copenhagen"? It would have to be put in the capital city of Denmark, Copenhagen.

That is what I meant.

 

[Justinov]

And I would assume this major team should preferably be in the capital city of Copenhagen, no?

Actually the marked for hockey is quite small in Copenhagen. The suburbs club usually play matches for a couple of hundreds of spectators, though some local derby's or other important matches attracts over 1000 spectators.
It is the provincial towns in Jutland (Herning, Vojens, Esbjerg, Aalborg & Frederikshavn), but not the biggest town in Jutland - Ã…rhus - where it is popular.

The NT could likely bring in some people in Copenhagen; but a new team? I wonder.....

The cost to launch a major team in Copenhagen is not something anyone have wanted to risk yet, as success is quite uncertain. A major team would probably have the best shot of succeeding as the moment in Herning - but a major club there would probably have optimistically to calculate with 5.000 spectators (?) as a maximum and that is not really enough?!

 

[Paaske]

You have more untapped potential in copenhagen than you do in jutland .
So you cant just say the market is small in Copenhagen , problem is atm that there isnt a good product anywhere in copenhagen besides in Rødovre . Bad product = no market.

 

[Justinov]

You have more untapped potential in copenhagen than you do in jutland .
So you cant just say the market is small in Copenhagen , problem is atm that there isnt a good product anywhere in copenhagen besides in Rødovre . Bad product = no market.

I meant the current marked. Off course the untapped potential is huge as 25% of the Danish population lives in the Greater Copenhagen area.

 

[Bank]

I would argue that there's at least two things wrong with the logic that people = potential interest(Not that anybody say'd it was so)

I would argue that it's not like the citizens of Copenhagen just sits at home not knowing what to do right now. They have preferences, and right now it's not hockey. Add to that: Hockey is tough game to understand for an outsider used to watching football, handball or no sport at all.

And I'd argue that the gap in interest is to far. It's not like you put a quality product on ice and 1,2,3 there people and interest for some years. Look at the handball-thingy. Had to tie it self to a solid top club in handball in the other part of the country. Look at FC Nordsjælland. Had Champions League and a championship not to many years ago. Today they have the second lowest attendance in Superligaen with about 4000. The clubs in Copenhagen drawing the kind of attention a team like this would need are institutions build over decades.

The arguments for and against have been made earlier in this thread I believe, so interested could look back