Player Discussion #93 - Sam Bennett

[BLabz]

just wondering why Beautiful Bennett never gets a shot on the top line over ferland ?

 

[Flameshomer]

just wondering why Beautiful Bennett never gets a shot on the top line over ferland ?

Well, Ferland has looked pretty great on the top line RW for the last two games, I don't think it would serve us to move him off now. Meanwhile, why would we promote Bennett when he has frankly looked like garbage outside of one or two games. That sends the wrong message.
I would like to see Bennett back on Backlund's wing. Regain some confidence. Then Tkachuk plays with Janko-Jagr:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Jagr

that looks like a pretty solid lineup to me. In dream world the 4th line would only play like 6 minutes a night in this scenario, but Glen loves them and they would likely play 10, which is the main reason this won't happen. Can't reduce Tkachuk's minutes like that and expect to win.

 

[Anglesmith]

Well, Ferland has looked pretty great on the top line RW for the last two games, I don't think it would serve us to move him off now. Meanwhile, why would we promote Bennett when he has frankly looked like garbage outside of one or two games. That sends the wrong message.
I would like to see Bennett back on Backlund's wing. Regain some confidence. Then Tkachuk plays with Janko-Jagr:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Jagr

that looks like a pretty solid lineup to me. In dream world the 4th line would only play like 6 minutes a night in this scenario, but Glen loves them and they would likely play 10, which is the main reason this won't happen. Can't reduce Tkachuk's minutes like that and expect to win.

There are two sides to the coin, though. It's in the organization's best interest to pump players up with confidence by putting them in good situations, because they do better with every line going. Condensing all the hot players together and letting the others toil away in a situation that isn't working might be fair, but it doesn't necessarily make for the most effective lineup.

The goal has to be getting offence from top to bottom. Punishing players for bad play is only useful if you think the message will lead to results. Punishing for principle's sake can just end up hurting the team.

 

[Flameshomer]

There are two sides to the coin, though. It's in the organization's best interest to pump players up with confidence by putting them in good situations, because they do better with every line going. Condensing all the hot players together and letting the others toil away in a situation that isn't working might be fair, but it doesn't necessarily make for the most effective lineup.

The goal has to be getting offence from top to bottom. Punishing players for bad play is only useful if you think the message will lead to results. Punishing for principle's sake can just end up hurting the team.

I'm not advocating Punishing bennett, more advocating not removing the mojo from our most successful offensive line. If you break up any line at this point it's 3M. Getting Tkachuk his own line could create another scoring threat, and we've seen bennett succeed on that backlund line in the past. If he starts producing, then you start talking about him on the top wing. I think planting him on the top line when he's so cold could be seriously detrimental- it guarantees he's facing top D men and likely getting less space overall to regain some of that confidence.

 

[Anglesmith]

I'm not advocating Punishing bennett, more advocating not removing the mojo from our most successful offensive line. If you break up any line at this point it's 3M. Getting Tkachuk his own line could create another scoring threat, and we've seen bennett succeed on that backlund line in the past. If he starts producing, then you start talking about him on the top wing. I think planting him on the top line when he's so cold could be seriously detrimental- it guarantees he's facing top D men and likely getting less space overall to regain some of that confidence.

That's totally fair. The top line works great whenever Ferland is on his game. I don't think it's like there isn't room for improvement, though.

 

[Baxterman]

I don't see how Ferland has looked fantastic at all on that top line and there have been many moments (as usual) where his passing and positioning kill plays for Monahan and Gaudreau.

It is interesting that Ferland keeps getting chances without doing anything to deserve them while others don't.

I think in Bennetts case they were pushing so hard to make him a center that obviously held him off that line and now they are trying to see if a Jankowski-Bennett pairing can work so again he is held off the top line.

With Ferland it seems like a default move to keep putting him back on the top line but hopefully soon we can have someone there on merit rather than just because they are a warm body that very occasionally can leach a goal off of Gaudreau or Monahan's great play.

 

[Anglesmith]

I don't see how Ferland has looked fantastic at all on that top line and there have been many moments (as usual) where his passing and positioning kill plays for Monahan and Gaudreau.

It is interesting that Ferland keeps getting chances without doing anything to deserve them while others don't.

I think in Bennetts case they were pushing so hard to make him a center that obviously held him off that line and now they are trying to see if a Jankowski-Bennett pairing can work so again he is held off the top line.

With Ferland it seems like a default move to keep putting him back on the top line but hopefully soon we can have someone there on merit rather than just because they are a warm body that very occasionally can leach a goal off of Gaudreau or Monahan's great play.

I think Gulutzan really likes to lean on past history. And the history from last year was that Ferland worked when put on the top line. Even though it was a relatively short stretch when the line was really on fire, it's sticking in his mind and making it the default. They've tried Bennett - Monahan - Gaudreau about three times, and broken it up just as quickly. If a line doesn't immediately show results, Gulutzan seems to want to revert pretty quickly.

Like, Gaudreau - Bennett - Lazar looked really good against the Jets, so they were kept together for the road trip. They didn't produce in Anaheim, and that was that for that line.

 

[BLabz]

Well, Ferland has looked pretty great on the top line RW for the last two games, I don't think it would serve us to move him off now. Meanwhile, why would we promote Bennett when he has frankly looked like garbage outside of one or two games. That sends the wrong message.
I would like to see Bennett back on Backlund's wing. Regain some confidence. Then Tkachuk plays with Janko-Jagr:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Jagr

that looks like a pretty solid lineup to me. In dream world the 4th line would only play like 6 minutes a night in this scenario, but Glen loves them and they would likely play 10, which is the main reason this won't happen. Can't reduce Tkachuk's minutes like that and expect to win.

" understandable but really how can he do much stuck on the 3/4th line ? him, jan, lazar looked decent last night

 

[Skobel24]

Gaudreau - Monahan - Jagr
Bennett - Backlund - Ferland
Tkachuk - Jankowski - Frolik
Versteeg - Lazar - Brouwer

I'd like to see this for a few games. Ferland and Bennett can both shoot, having Backlund at C could definitely get them going. The Jankowski line could help do some of the heavy defensive lifting, but also contribute offensively. As for the 4th line, gotta try something different at this point. Let's see what the Flames have in Lazar for the 4C slot.

 

[DFF]

" understandable but really how can he do much stuck on the 3/4th line ?

My son told me he had a bad grade because the teacher put him in a group with bad kids

It has nothing to do with him not studying.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Honestly they should do this:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Tkachuk-Janko-Jagr

That’s the most balanced top 9 you could ask for.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

just wondering why Beautiful Bennett never gets a shot on the top line over ferland ?

I imagine it's due at least in part to GG wanting to have some kind of scoring in the bottom six. Ferland is a great complementary winger, but he's not likely to drive a ton of offence for a line; Bennett, at least in theory, has the type of skillset that should allow him to drive the offence on a line.

 

[Flameshomer]

I imagine it's due at least in part to GG wanting to have some kind of scoring in the bottom six. Ferland is a great complementary winger, but he's not likely to drive a ton of offence for a line; Bennett, at least in theory, has the type of skillset that should allow him to drive the offence on a line.

Maybe in theory, but to be honest we have never in his three seasons seen him drive an offensive line.

Honestly they should do this:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Tkachuk-Janko-Jagr

That’s the most balanced top 9 you could ask for.

Yes!! That third line could be dominant too. We're not asking Bennett to carry any offense, just to be himself and find that scoring touch from 2 seasons ago with familiar partners. Leave the top line as is to keep rolling...

 

[Tkachuky]

I would not touch the 3M line. Put Bennett on the top line and leave him there for 5 games minimum. Chemistry does not happen overnight.

I still have high hopes for Bennett.

 

[djpatm]

I imagine it's due at least in part to GG wanting to have some kind of scoring in the bottom six. Ferland is a great complementary winger, but he's not likely to drive a ton of offence for a line; Bennett, at least in theory, has the type of skillset that should allow him to drive the offence on a line.

The mythical skill set no one has seen outside of one or two games in his rookie reason.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

The mythical skill set no one has seen outside of one or two games in his rookie reason.

The tools are clearly there: he's a great skater, is an excellent stickhandler, and a good passer. The only thing wrong with him his his brain (which seems to have become better since he was moved to the wing). Ferland, much as I love him, lacks the same agility and level of offensive skill that Bennett has (not that he has none; it's just not at the same level). Ferland learned how to play to his strengths and position himself properly, and if Bennett can do the same he should be a driving offensive force to some degree.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I’m terms of pure skill, hands, size, skating, shot, there isn’t a more talented player on the Flames, other than Gaudreau, then Ferland.

He lacks consistency but when he is moving his feet he’s a great player.

He’s on pace to score 20+ goals even strength this year. Don’t really know what more people expect from him.

I guess once people treat someone like a punching bag on this site, they never stop. Because of some sort of pride which manifests itself in the form of bad narratives that people never seem to give up.

 

[Yung Rotini]

I’m terms of pure skill, hands, size, skating, shot, there isn’t a more talented player on the Flames, other than Gaudreau, then Ferland.

He lacks consistency but when he is moving his feet he’s a great player.

He’s on pace to score 20+ goals even strength this year. Don’t really know what more people expect from him.

I guess once people treat someone like a punching bag on this site, they never stop. Because of some sort of pride which manifests itself in the form of bad narratives that people never seem to give up.

What makes Ferland a “punching bag” on this site (if you can even call him that, he really isn’t) is completely outrageous statements such as this. Are we watching the same player here? I’m honestly confused. He’s a good third liner who can fill a role on the top line when necessary.

Back to Bennett, the kid has talent but he has to figure it out by the end of this contract or he’s finished with this team.

 

[Anglesmith]

Any algorithm for talent assessment that finds Ferland to be more 'talented' than Backlund, Giordano, Hamilton, Brodie and Smith is an obviously flawed method.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Does Ferland have great hockey IQ? No. And that’s the most important thing BY FAR. Look at Adam Fox. Not very skilled but thinks the game two steps faster then everyone else.

But Ferland a world class skater. Has the best wrist shot behind Monny on the team. He’s a physical specimen. He’s got good hands. And I meant forwards. I think Brodie and Hamilton are more skilled then Ferland. So is Smith.

Players like Monahan, and Backlund, are more talented, because they both possess great hockey IQ. But in terms of pure skill Ferland is special.

 

[Fig]

Ferland's skill is not special. His package combination though I wouldn't complain too much though.

Good size
Good speed
Good physicality
Great finish
Good IQ.

IMO, he's a jack of all trades, master of none sort of dude. That's pretty special as the majority of players have specific facets that stick out. Less so for Ferland.

 

[Flameshomer]

Ferland's skill is not special. His package combination though I wouldn't complain too much though.

Good size
Good speed
Good physicality
Great finish
Good IQ.

IMO, he's a jack of all trades, master of none sort of dude. That's pretty special as the majority of players have specific facets that stick out. Less so for Ferland.

Honestly I think the biggest complaint about Ferland is his consistency. If he's on, he's on, but lots of games he's just passable. Whether that's an effort thing or not is hard to say. Imo if he played in his "playoff mode" all the time he'd be a first liner. Right now I think he's comfortably a middle sixer that can play up.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Honestly I think the biggest complaint about Ferland is his consistency. If he's on, he's on, but lots of games he's just passable. Whether that's an effort thing or not is hard to say. Imo if he played in his "playoff mode" all the time he'd be a first liner. Right now I think he's comfortably a middle sixer that can play up.

If Ferland were "On" every night, he would basically be Jamie Benn. Gotta have realistic expectations. He's no less consistent than 75-85% of NHLers. It's just become a buzz word about him by people holding him to the standard of 2015 Playoffs Ferland, which no player in history could pull off for 82 games a year. He'll never shake this "inconsistent" label unless he becomes a star player who plays like he did VS Washington every night - which is a tall ask of anyone not considered a franchise player.

 

[Flameshomer]

If Ferland were "On" every night, he would basically be Jamie Benn. Gotta have realistic expectations. He's no less consistent than 75-85% of NHLers. It's just become a buzz word about him by people holding him to the standard of 2015 Playoffs Ferland, which no player in history could pull off for 82 games a year. He'll never shake this "inconsistent" label unless he becomes a star player who plays like he did VS Washington every night - which is a tall ask of anyone not considered a franchise player.

Meh to me he's in the same realm as Rene bourque and we'd be very lucky if he came close to bourque best numbers.

 

[DFF]

If Ferland were "On" every night, he would basically be Jamie Benn. .

I watch Jamie Benn a lot and Ferland has never reached half of Jamie Benn on his best day.