9 wins 9 losses

[Leaf Lander]

Don't fire anyone


Let them loose

And let's check back in 4 yrs ok

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The team is what it is, high highs that make you think it has turned the corner and finally has learned what it takes to win and low lows that remind you they've been in the same holding pattern since 2011-12, and usually they finish off with a point total between 80-85.

The fan base mimics them perfectly too ha.

 

[Rusty545]

This team lacks consistency. They have the talent to win, but just can't seem to hold it together for long. Pick a string of five games, and the team often looks different every night, win or loss.

I almost feel like this team is a group of talented players as opposed to a true "team" on the ice.

In terms of a fix, perhaps a core shifting trade (probably difficult to pull off), addition by subtraction kind of deal, or alternatively, a coaching change.

How long can this group keep playing like this until something happens?

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

You're totally correct in this approach, but its not the path that will be taken by Shanahan or whoever is pulling his strings once Lieweke bails. Seriously, this is Leaf culture. It's their M.O. Not bad enough to draft in top 5, not good enough to make playoffs or do damage once there.

Most recently JFJ wanted to blow it up post-Quinn and rebuild but was rebuffed with prejudice by his boss (so bye bye Raask, etc. to try to just make the playoffs). Same with Burke. Same with Nonis. Shanahan will continue this legacy.

Why fire Carlyle? It's the GM that brings in or dismisses players - the coach just massages what he's given. So we get a third "name" coach who was effective and respected elsewhere, but keep the player core who chew up and spit out two other bonafide NHL coaches?

Babcock is currently a cog in a fantastic hockey machine. In Toronto he will catastrophically fail under MLSE cultural pressure.

The best chance to get to the finals in 47 years was with the first overall pick riding shotgun for the Leafs - Wendel Clark. Hey, how about trying that approach just one more time?

I think Calyle is part of the problem as is the core group...The compete level is just not there game after game.

While I agree that the players are to blame more than a head coach,Carlyle still has been part of the problem.

You're right about the draft---The leafs will likely be just in or out of the playoffs and won't get one of the blue chippers...Shanahan probably doesn't believe in purposely tanking,and this market would crucify him mercilessly if he let it happen.

The problem is that the Leafs are bad but so are the majority of teams in the East...They're probably just one of the "better" bad teams.

 

[Erdinger]

This team lacks consistency. They have the talent to win, but just can't seem to hold it together for long. Pick a string of five games, and the team often looks different every night, win or loss.

I almost feel like this team is a group of talented players as opposed to a true "team" on the ice.

In terms of a fix, perhaps a core shifting trade (probably difficult to pull off), addition by subtraction kind of deal, or alternatively, a coaching change.

How long can this group keep playing like this until something happens?

Until their contracts expire unfortunately. Only players that can be moved are Kessel and the non core guys. No point moving Kessel and changing the non core guys isn't going to do much as has been demonstrated with the exception of the return of Komarov.

 

[Trapper]

This team lacks consistency. They have the talent to win, but just can't seem to hold it together for long. Pick a string of five games, and the team often looks different every night, win or loss.

I almost feel like this team is a group of talented players as opposed to a true "team" on the ice.

In terms of a fix, perhaps a core shifting trade (probably difficult to pull off), addition by subtraction kind of deal, or alternatively, a coaching change.

How long can this group keep playing like this until something happens?

Canucks have a bad year out goes the GM, the coach, Kesler, Luongo. In comes draft picks.
The Leafs have a bad 5 of 6 years, out goes draft picks everyone gets extended.
Culture.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I'd say for the most part most of our new players have come in with a work man like attitude and have been positives, but when the team falls apart it's usually to do with the old bad habits and weaknesses and lack of energy that characterizes the old core.

To use an analogy, the engine of this team only has a certain amount of horsepower on it. Really doesn't matter what the air freshener smells like.

That's the honest truth too. That should be a thought by fans here when we try to figure what is the right corrective action to raise the compete level to a consistent level.

It is pointing directly to the players that have been here for some time. That's would indicate that the evaluation time is here now or past. Making a move soon involving the core players of past and present could be involved in any moves.

A move or moves preferable should be made in this next 10 game segment with the focus on improving the team. The deadline evaluation period could focus to further improvements or draft position.

Most here would not like my thoughts on who I would move. So for that reason I would rather not suggest them and keep the peace. We need moves though.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Canucks have a bad year out goes the GM, the coach, Kesler, Luongo. In comes draft picks.
The Leafs have a bad 5 of 6 years, out goes draft picks everyone gets extended.
Culture.

Hopefully that culture is slowly changing with Shanahan running things...He's a no nonsense smart guy...Hiring men like Hunter and Dubas is just the start----

I can't wait to see what he does next off-season...There should be a lot of changes.

 

[theTTC]

The problem is that the Leafs are bad but so are the majority of teams in the East...They're probably just one of the "better" bad teams.

This probably why the coaching staff is frustrated and angry about the .500 type of hockey Leafs are playing - the East is there for the taking. Stop the Buffalo game nonsense and we'd be good to go.

 

[Trapper]

Hopefully that culture is slowly changing with Shanahan running things...He's a no nonsense smart guy...Hiring men like Hunter and Dubas is just the start----

I can't wait to see what he does next off-season...There should be a lot of changes.

Shanahan extended the coach. The easiest change to make without moving any players. No one would have batted an eye if Carlyle was let go after last year. So any negative coaching posts are on Shanny.

 

[thewave]

The problem with this frustrating organization is they are liars.

They lie to themselves they lie to the owners and they lie to the fanbase.

Where a single savvy owner is smart enough to identify problems and enact change, a team with a boardroom 7 tiers of upper management mumbles and pisses and moans and debates an does **** all.

The organization has to check themselves before they wreck themselves.

 

[Erdinger]

Shanahan extended the coach. The easiest change to make without moving any players. No one would have batted an eye if Carlyle was let go after last year. So any negative coaching posts are on Shanny.

Yet dismissed Carlyle's assistants while at the same time extending him which was a really odd thing to do.

 

[Teeder9]

Yet dismissed Carlyle's assistants while at the same time extending him which was a really odd thing to do.

I still think that was a deal made with him and Nonis. Nonis probably fought for the extension using the assistants as the fall guy, and Shanny made him change them so that could be ruled out this year should failure reoccur.

 

[WTFMAN99]

The construction of this team in not about where you draft first and foremost is it? What is the needle in the hay stack that causes such extreme shifts from game to game. Who is the cause of it to a higher percentage and how do you fix it is what's important.

To blow it up immediately for picks and sarary cap space immediately does not answer to the compete level in itself though. We might need to jump on a high impact trade to some degree quite soon.

That could set a tone for our direction at the deadline.

If I had to look at who doesn't compete, Kessel comes to mind. He's also a huge reason why we win.

When the puck gets dumped into a corner and he's the leading forechecker, he doesn't do anything, he does not want to have any physical contact. He is easy to play against.

He also does a lot of special things though.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

If I had to look at who doesn't compete, Kessel comes to mind. He's also a huge reason why we win.

When the puck gets dumped into a corner and he's the leading forechecker, he doesn't do anything, he does not want to have any physical contact. He is easy to play against.

He also does a lot of special things though.

That's is a concern and it is possible you call what he brings a wash and you keep him.

 

[Weltschmerz]

There are rumours the cap isnt going up going into next season.

Just to keep our current group together without even adding a piece in free agency, we'd need to give raises to Kadri, Bernier, Santorelli, and Franson. Even if those were only ~1M raises per player, it would still put us over the cap by 4M without adding a single piece.

Obviously we expect some young guys like Nylander, Percy, Leivo, Panik, Holland, etc to take on larger roles next season, so there's no reason to expect management to want to keep this exact roster together. But Id prefer to see us proactive and identify who we want to keep with those young guys, and who we don't, and move out some salary for some prospects, picks, etc that can give us more flexibility going forward.

Every team has that problem, so who is taking on salary without giving some back?

If you want to move out salary be prepared to get bad value in return.

 

[CalgaryLeaf*]

Shanahan extended the coach. The easiest change to make without moving any players. No one would have batted an eye if Carlyle was let go after last year. So any negative coaching posts are on Shanny.

I wouldn't exactly view the extension as a vote of confidence...The Leafs are a rich organization and the extra year is just a drop in the bucket.

Perhaps Shanahan didn't see a better head coach option available...Did you?

I don't mind the wait and observe approach he took...The players are on trial this year as is the coach...Don't you think Shanahan is watching carefully every aspect of the team?..Do you think he is an idiot?

Will waiting a year and then hiring Babcock be worth it?..Yeah he's not a sure thing but perhaps the coaching pool will have better candidates available next year.

There are a lot of things behind the scense that we are not privvy to...I'm sure that Brendan is not happy with the team and he has a plan to correct it...It's his first year running the organization and patience is the key.

We as fans have earned the right to be impatient but Shanahan hasn't been part of the problem the last decade...I urge you to resist the temptation to blame Shanny at this point in time.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

You just know we'll be batting .500 at the TD. Nonis doesn't choose to sell. Go .500 till the end. Miss playoffs. Mediocre draft pick. Just the Leafs way.

 

[thewave]

Every team has that problem, so who is taking on salary without giving some back?

If you want to move out salary be prepared to get bad value in return.

You got that right. We may even just need to buyout more players. And accept it will be hard to compete for 5 years or more. Sad what 1 knucklehead can do to a team. Thanks Nonis.

 

[Pyromaniac3]

Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke · 4h 4 hours ago
Up next for the Leafs: Nsh, TB, Det, Pitt, Wsh, Dal, NJ & Van? Good luck Randy.

This next stretch of games will show what the team is made of.

 

[Erdinger]

This next stretch of games will show what the team is made of.

To their credit the players normally give excellent post loss interviews about their crappy team performance not being acceptable. Not that they actually ever back the talk up with actions but that's nitpicking.

 

[hockeygeek]

JVR looks disinterested this year. I might be testing the trade waters if I was Nonis. Chicago might be interested

 

[Beleafer19]

I look to build around Reilly, jvr, bernier, nylander, and maybe kadri the rest can go

I totally agree with this

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Hope that teams like our expandable players:

Lupul/Winnik/Santorelli/Frattin/Polak/Franson/Reimer



I don't mind some players in there - But I'd rather be 0-82 than 41-41.

We are the most mediocre team in professional sports. I want this lineup for half the year: (Build, build build)

Leivo-Kadri-Kessel
JvR-Bozak-Brown
Komarov-Holland-Clarkson
Kozun/Broll/Devane-Carrick-Panik

Rielly-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Robidas
Percy-Holzer/Loov/Granberg

Bernier
Bibeau

 

[Shimso]

We're the definition of mediocre, not bad enough to get an elite top 5 pick but will land at 9th or 10th in the east. why not blow it up? Calgary for example has way less talent but they work their ass off. If our team ever did that they could accomplish something

Totally agree. I have no idea how some fans think this team is a "contender". They've been the worst NHL team over the last 10 years with 3 consecutive years of collapses, and they haven't had many changes and are now at .500 (albeit, a very small sample size). There isn't a light at the end of the tunnel. Either go for broke and try to win or actually do a proper rebuild. Otherwise, it'll be yet another year with half-assed effort where fans spent the year bracing for the inevitable collapse, and we spend the last 3 weeks of the season scoreboard watching for the 0.01% chance scenario of making the playoffs, followed by an off-season of trying to determine whose the best prospect we can get with the #14 pick.

It seems like theres no pride in this team. They're the polar opposite of the Raptors who are one of the most clutch teams in the league with guys like Lowry and DeRozan fighting through it all and taking any slights personally. It's not a coincidence that they won the division last year and are currently leading the Eastern Conference, 1 game back of the league lead.