Prospect Info: #46 Givani Smith, LW, Guelph (OHL)

[newfy]

Givani doesn't know about a Gordie Howe Hattrick. This was 2019.

He put up a solid amount of points in the OHL, was a fairly high pick and led the OHL in pims in back to back years. Theres no way he didnt know what that is lol he was just being a smart ass for the reporters

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

More points than half the roster in about half as many games? Congratulations, you're going to the minors.

Makes sense. I guess Givani is redundant considering our roster is overflowing with grit and offensive production.

 

[Gniwder]

More points than half the roster in about half as many games? Congratulations, you're going to the minors.

Makes sense. I guess Givani is redundant considering our roster is overflowing with grit and offensive production.

Appears they're going to give Svech a chance. I'm not too worried about SMith, he's waivers eligible next season so the Wings won't have any choice. He'll get claimed, there are only a couple of teams that deliberately want to be soft like the Wings.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

More points than half the roster in about half as many games? Congratulations, you're going to the minors.

Makes sense. I guess Givani is redundant considering our roster is overflowing with grit and offensive production.

Like others I want to see Givani Smith up and playing full time, but for the love of god, please slow down the hype train. I will spare you future disappointment and tell you right now that he is not a first line player and he won't be able to replicate that production over any meaningful period of time. He is a bottom six player. Four good periods on the top line does not make you a first line player. You are only setting yourself up to be disappointed by expecting otherwise.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Like others I want to see Givani Smith up and playing full time, but for the love of god, please slow down the hype train. I will spare you future disappointment and tell you right now that he is not a first line player and he won't be able to replicate that production over any meaningful period of time. He is a bottom six player. Four good periods on the top line does not make you a first line player. You are only setting yourself up to be disappointed by expecting otherwise.

At no point did I argue he projects as anything more than a bottom six player.

I'm simply saying it's dumb for a rebuilding team to send down a hard-working young player who has been producing points this year while we continue to ice several benders night in and night out.

I just don't get the development strategy here. It's not like Rasmussen where you can understand why another year of 1C minutes in GR might better his development. We more or less know what we've got with Givani at this point, and in my opinion it's better than at least a few other players in our lineup have to offer.

Edit: the "young guys have to earn their place by outplaying vets" philosophy loses credibility when a young player pretty clearly outplays several vets and still gets sent down. Obviously I don't know what's going on internally, but to me it feels like the Wings constantly move the goalposts regarding what a young player has to do to stay in the lineup.

 

[Kronwalled55]

At no point did I argue he projects as anything more than a bottom six player.

I'm simply saying it's dumb for a rebuilding team to send down a hard-working young player who has been producing points this year while we continue to ice several benders night in and night out.

I just don't get the development strategy here. It's not like Rasmussen where you can understand why another year of 1C minutes in GR might better his development. We more or less know what we've got with Givani at this point, and in my opinion it's better than at least a few other players in our lineup have to offer.

Edit: the "young guys have to earn their place by outplaying vets" philosophy loses credibility when a young player pretty clearly outplays several vets and still gets sent down. Obviously I don't know what's going on internally, but to me it feels like the Wings constantly move the goalposts regarding what a young player has to do to stay in the lineup.

100% agree.

Meanwhile Brome is recently getting top line minutes and PP time and literally has zero points this season. Zero.

 

[raymond23]

At no point did I argue he projects as anything more than a bottom six player.

I'm simply saying it's dumb for a rebuilding team to send down a hard-working young player who has been producing points this year while we continue to ice several benders night in and night out.

I just don't get the development strategy here. It's not like Rasmussen where you can understand why another year of 1C minutes in GR might better his development. We more or less know what we've got with Givani at this point, and in my opinion it's better than at least a few other players in our lineup have to offer.

Edit: the "young guys have to earn their place by outplaying vets" philosophy loses credibility when a young player pretty clearly outplays several vets and still gets sent down. Obviously I don't know what's going on internally, but to me it feels like the Wings constantly move the goalposts regarding what a young player has to do to stay in the lineup.

100% agree.

Meanwhile Brome is recently getting top line minutes and PP time and literally has zero points this season. Zero.

Makes no sense whatsoever. I have no idea what our organizational philosophy is this year besides to get a high pick.

Stevie is lucky he has a long leash... if this were Kenny I would be in f***ing fumes lol.

 

[Winger98]

Like others I want to see Givani Smith up and playing full time, but for the love of god, please slow down the hype train. I will spare you future disappointment and tell you right now that he is not a first line player and he won't be able to replicate that production over any meaningful period of time. He is a bottom six player. Four good periods on the top line does not make you a first line player. You are only setting yourself up to be disappointed by expecting otherwise.

Curious, what do you see Smith producing in the NHL? While I don't think he is a straight up "first line" player, I see him as a guy who could slide in to a bunch of different lines and provide a physical element while not looking out of place in a way the Wings 97-99 had a bunch of guys who could be moved up and down the lineup. Or he could end up being a bottom6 plug, but still a useful bottom6 plug.

 

[ridilon]

Makes no sense whatsoever. I have no idea what our organizational philosophy is this year besides to get a high pick.

Stevie is lucky he has a long leash... if this were Kenny I would be in f***ing fumes lol.

Won't take too long before that leash is shortened to nothing. Dumars was just about laughed out of the Pistons organization and he actually brought in a title.

There are plenty of knowledgeable hockey fans on this forum who've watched the games with a more discerning eye than they every day fanatic. I've yet to hear solid reasons why people like Nielsen or Brome get to suit up every night over someone like Smith. At worst it's a wash and that is the main reason that this makes no sense. Nielsen/Filppula/Brome/Erne are not the future of anything. Perhaps neither are Smith/Rasmussen/Cholo or Svech, but I'd like to know that for sure.

 

[Henkka]

Makes no sense whatsoever. I have no idea what our organizational philosophy is this year besides to get a high pick.

Stevie is lucky he has a long leash... if this were Kenny I would be in f***ing fumes lol.

Yzerman is doing exactly same as Holland.

- Nyquist send down for Tatar, or Tatar send down for Nyquist. Not both up at same time.

Now this Svechnikov vs. Smith.

And roster filled with vets. Same GM book.

Exactly same.

 

[19 for president]

I thought Smith looked legit last year, so this is a bit disappointing. With that said I think this is a bit of asset management during a shortened season. He is going to play guys he is hoping to deal (Gagner, Ryan, Flip, Glenny, Erne, Helm, Staal, Nemeth, Merril, etc. Then you have the Brome, Svech, Smith, Hirose group that are all RFAs and need to be evaluated. I don't expect them all to be qualified. I think Smith is the biggest guarantee as he is a solid 4th liner at worst. With basically 1.5 months until the deadline, and with the expansion draft coming up Stevie needs to know what's what about the current players. He may also be low key trying to keep a guy like Smith on the DL so he doesn't have to protect him but also doesn't lose him in the expansion draft or keep him under a threshold if that applies (I think Smith would need be protected...?). I very much think he could be the Wings pick ala Nosek and Vegas.

 

[GMR]

Smith should be dressed every game the rest of the season. He plays hard on every shift and he beat up Ekblad. What else do you want in a player?

 

[Henkka]

with the expansion draft coming up Stevie needs to know what's what about the current players. He may also be low key trying to keep a guy like Smith on the DL so he doesn't have to protect him but also doesn't lose him in the expansion draft or keep him under a threshold if that applies (I think Smith would need be protected...?). I very much think he could be the Wings pick ala Nosek and Vegas.

Smells a bit that he tries the same than Holland with Nosek, keep him down there out of shadows, and try to avoid the expansion claim. And fate is same as Nosek's.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Curious, what do you see Smith producing in the NHL? While I don't think he is a straight up "first line" player, I see him as a guy who could slide in to a bunch of different lines and provide a physical element while not looking out of place in a way the Wings 97-99 had a bunch of guys who could be moved up and down the lineup. Or he could end up being a bottom6 plug, but still a useful bottom6 plug.

I think you might be able to get 20-25 points out of him in the right situation. His feet are still awfully heavy and it impacts his game. In his last game he was swallowed whole trying to transport the puck in transition by back pressure after taking the puck in space. He isn't going to help you in transition too much but he does add real value once possession is established in the offensive zone, especially in the low slot and along the boards. On his own I see him as a bottom six player, but I too could see situations where he gets moved up the lineup a tad depending on who he is with and what sort of chemistry they have together. Very rarely does a staff simply put the six most skilled forwards together on the top two lines. That is a classic HFboards myth and does not reflect how chemistry actually works. We joke about piano pullers, but I think that really has more to do with who was actually pulling the Steinway than how lines are constructed.

Anyways, I think he still checks the new and shiny box, which is why people aren't being critical (or really honest) about him. Personally I would not have sent him to GR, but he probably would not be making it too far off of the fourth line. But who knows, maybe they think there is still a lot of capacity for improvement with large amounts of playing time.

 

[MBH]

I think you might be able to get 20-25 points out of him in the right situation. His feet are still awfully heavy and it impacts his game. In his last game he was swallowed whole trying to transport the puck in transition by back pressure after taking the puck in space. He isn't going to help you in transition too much but he does add real value once possession is established in the offensive zone, especially in the low slot and along the boards. On his own I see him as a bottom six player, but I too could see situations where he gets moved up the lineup a tad depending on who he is with and what sort of chemistry they have together. Very rarely does a staff simply put the six most skilled forwards together on the top two lines. That is a classic HFboards myth and does not reflect how chemistry actually works. We joke about piano pullers, but I think that really has more to do with who was actually pulling the Steinway than how lines are constructed.

Anyways, I think he still checks the new and shiny box, which is why people aren't being critical (or really honest) about him. Personally I would not have sent him to GR, but he probably would not be making it too far off of the fourth line. But who knows, maybe they think there is still a lot of capacity for improvement with large amounts of playing time.

The problem he's gonna have as a bottom sixer is, can he PK?
Unless he becomes a true heavy weight, does he keep an NHL job in the bottom six with the PK element?

Couldn't you play him with Larkin-Mantha and watch him score 10-15 goals and provide some toughness?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Smith should be dressed every game the rest of the season. He plays hard on every shift and he beat up Ekblad. What else do you want in a player?

The handling of him and Svech are among the more confusing moves with prospects. Smith seems like he's earned a place in the lineup, at least until his play says otherwise. And I feel like Svech never got much a shot in spite of looking pretty good in the few minutes he played.

 

[newfy]

Curious, what do you see Smith producing in the NHL? While I don't think he is a straight up "first line" player, I see him as a guy who could slide in to a bunch of different lines and provide a physical element while not looking out of place in a way the Wings 97-99 had a bunch of guys who could be moved up and down the lineup. Or he could end up being a bottom6 plug, but still a useful bottom6 plug.

I dont think theres a reason he couldnt be a Dan Cleary type. Physical presence on a higher line in a pinch but better off as a third liner. Plays net front on the powerplay. I dont think he'll ever score 26 goals in 68 games but on a good line he could hang well enough offensively to play.

 

[MBH]

I dont think theres a reason he couldnt be a Dan Cleary type. Physical presence on a higher line in a pinch but better off as a third liner. Plays net front on the powerplay. I dont think he'll ever score 26 goals in 68 games but on a good line he could hang well enough offensively to play.

Before Cleary broke down he skated well and could PK.

 

[newfy]

The problem he's gonna have as a bottom sixer is, can he PK?
Unless he becomes a true heavy weight, does he keep an NHL job in the bottom six with the PK element?

Couldn't you play him with Larkin-Mantha and watch him score 10-15 goals and provide some toughness?

Doesnt have to become a true heavyweight in todays NHL. Theres like 5 of those left total. The rest of the guys in the league for the most part he could hold his own against already.

I think hes got value on special teams too, he could play a second PP not PK though

 

[MBH]

The handling of him and Svech are among the more confusing moves with prospects. Smith seems like he's earned a place in the lineup, at least until his play says otherwise. And I feel like Svech never got much a shot in spite of looking pretty good in the few minutes he played.

Add in the amazing loyalty Blash has had to Brome, Perlini and a few others...
I think Blashill's trying to be loyal to the Yzerman acquisitions.
If he doesn't sense Yzerman has belief in a Holland pick, he doesn't give them much rope.
Total speculation - but that's where I'm leaning.

 

[MBH]

Doesnt have to become a true heavyweight in todays NHL. Theres like 5 of those left total. The rest of the guys in the league for the most part he could hold his own against already.

I think hes got value on special teams too, he could play a second PP not PK though

Yeah. I wonder about the 2nd Unit PK.
Hard to say. Would seem like a netfront guy, potentially.
Rasmussen would seem like one of the guys he'd have to beat. Maybe Soderblom down the road.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Before Cleary broke down he skated well and could PK.

Because the broke-down version is more recent in our minds it's easy to forget that Cleary was drafted 13th overall, put up 74 points in 58 games in the AHL, and had 35 points in his first full NHL season.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

The problem he's gonna have as a bottom sixer is, can he PK?
Unless he becomes a true heavy weight, does he keep an NHL job in the bottom six with the PK element?

Couldn't you play him with Larkin-Mantha and watch him score 10-15 goals and provide some toughness?

No, I don't think he can keep up mentally or physically with those two over long periods of time. I fully appreciate that this is a very unpopular opinion, but I am not sure he projects to be a better player than prime Abby was (to give some context). He may be better down low and a bit harder on the puck, but he has real issues with his game that no one wants to talk about as limiting factors that definitely offset the pluses.

If he was a really high IQ player with plus vision and puck skills who had mobility issues, you would have an argument, but that isn't Smith.

 

[Henkka]

Add in the amazing loyalty Blash has had to Brome, Perlini and a few others...
I think Blashill's trying to be loyal to the Yzerman acquisitions.
If he doesn't sense Yzerman has belief in a Holland pick, he doesn't give them much rope.
Total speculation - but that's where I'm leaning.

Yzerman gets the players and Blashill tries to make them work. That's pretty simple how it goes.

Brome got his shot, but I think 20 games should be enough of proving that he is nothing. Try the next in line. Move on.

 

[RedWingzz]

At no point did I argue he projects as anything more than a bottom six player.

I'm simply saying it's dumb for a rebuilding team to send down a hard-working young player who has been producing points this year while we continue to ice several benders night in and night out.

I just don't get the development strategy here. It's not like Rasmussen where you can understand why another year of 1C minutes in GR might better his development. We more or less know what we've got with Givani at this point, and in my opinion it's better than at least a few other players in our lineup have to offer.

Edit: the "young guys have to earn their place by outplaying vets" philosophy loses credibility when a young player pretty clearly outplays several vets and still gets sent down. Obviously I don't know what's going on internally, but to me it feels like the Wings constantly move the goalposts regarding what a young player has to do to stay in the lineup.

I agree with all your points. Unfortunately, I think Smith being in GR has something to do with the expansion draft. I believe they are trying to limit the number of games he plays in order for him to be exempt from the expansion draft.

I could be wrong, but to me that's one plausible reason for him being in GR. Otherwise, he should 100% be on the roster. He'll be up full time after the deadline. I think Yzerman knows exactly what he's doing here.