In Lidstrom's last Norris season, Shea Weber was undoubtedly a better defender. People often vote based on name recognition better than quality of player. Datsyuk was slightly under Malkin offensively for several years, and was defensively on another planet than him and just about every other player in the world.
Can you expand on this? What do you mean by slightly under?
didnt Lids win 4 Norris trophies from 05 to 11i've never like Datsyuk as much as others for some reason....
Thornton is ok, has the 2 monster seasons, but aside from that is seriously lacking in playoffs especially
I actually voted Kane here - and did so quite easily. The cups (and actual playoff performances) help a ton. But he also has a huge ross/hart/lindsay season.
Would Lids even count? I can't even remember what year exactly he retired. He's obviously a better player than Kane - but assuming he doesn't count (or doesn't have enough good years to edge out Kane) - it's Kane.
Obviously - all this post is strictly ignoring McDavid.
You want to go down this road again? I seem to remember a thread where you contested that Malkin was better in 07/08 and 08/09 based on awards voting. You then blew off Datsyuk's defensive ability with offensive numbers, at which point I displayed that Datsyuk was actually more offensively effective for the minutes given.
We really don't wanna go back down that road.
are people seriously forgetting lidstrom? He was a top player until he retired.
And he isnt an optionIf we look at 2000-2009 he is #1 and it’s not like he was useless 2005+
4 norris trophies is pretty solid, lol.
I really don't understand why coaches don't reduce the minutes of their whole team to pump their per 60/minutes GFs and GAs.
Which is why this isn't going to get good results. I voted "other" for this reason.And he isnt an option
Probably because their numbers would go down too. Come on daver, even you're not that dense.
Did you miss the past decade or something? 113, 109, 106, 98 point seasons, #3 in points per game among active players (behind Crosby and Mcdavid), 2 art rosses, conn smythe, hart, lindsay, 165 points in 158 playoff games, 3 cups, 3x first team all star... I mean it's very very clear he's above those two.I'm also laughing at the idea of Malkin definitively being above Datsyuk and Thornton. But hey, it's a Daver thread.
Did you miss the past decade or something? 113, 109, 106, 98 point seasons, #3 in points per game among active players (behind Crosby and Mcdavid), 2 art rosses, conn smythe, hart, lindsay, 165 points in 158 playoff games, 3 cups, 3x first team all star... I mean it's very very clear he's above those two.
Pavel Datsyuk.
Then Joe Thornton.
Then Patrick Kane.
are people seriously forgetting lidstrom? He was a top player until he retired.
Needs to be way more options. Including some defensemen and maybe a couple goalies. I don’t see what Datsyuk or Kane have done to separate themselves from other forwards in this time period
Could (or would) have been Kovalchuk, if he hadn't gone to the KHL.
-Not to mention the points per game and playoff points per game. The Former 2 arent even Top 100 players all time. The latter is a Top 30 player all time
No, because he's not better than Datsyuk or even Kane.
Right. Because this isn't subjective, or anything.