GDT: 4/25/24 - 7:00PM EDT - #1 Florida vs #1 WC Tampa Bay [ECQF GAME 3]

[Tampa22]

Cernak - 11
Cirelli - 9
Jeannot - 7
Chaffee - 7
Stamkos - 6

I don't know who is the one who count the hits but that it's a joke lol, any baby bump is not a hit.

 

[Headman]

Oh well

We got goaltending, we got special teams, we got high-powered offense...we even got eight players who have won the Cup with our team. Would things have been different with Sergachev? Mildly, maybe. If they're getting swept out of the Conference Quarterfinals again, it isn't because of being without one top Dman.

It's because they don't play 60 minutes. We've seen them play maybe two or three 60-minute games this entire season. They were able to win most of their games on raw talent, skill, and luck.

It the playoffs, you have to bring 60 minutes PLUS.

That ability, this squad does not possess.

 

[The Gongshow]

Vasy
Kuch
Point
Hedman
Stammer
Hagel

Everyone else is expendable. Everyone.

 

[OffBy1]

No, it's not rebuild time. The core talent is still there, and adding a better dman and some better value guys in the bottom 6 will help considerably. If Stamkos walks, then theyll.have space to add better ufa's as well. None of the main 8 or 9 guys are going anywhere soon(unless Stamkos walks), so there's no real re-build coming anytime soon.

As long as JBB gets rid of Jeannot, Sheary, and Perbix, adds a better RD(plus Serg will be back), adas a better bottom 6 F than Sheary, re-signs Stamkos and Duclair(or another F in the 3.5-4 range), and a Crunch player get a shot, the depth should be better. Vasy being healthy for the whole season, and hopefully a better defensive system will also help. The core is set for the next 3-5 years, so there's no point of.blowing it up. Some of the main guys had a bad series; it's unfortunate, but it happens. Better depth is what is needed, not some major rebuild, and that is what Tampa can(and likely will do).

I'd like to believe you're right. We did have a good run after the Columbus sweep. But the core was in its prime and/or on its way up then. Our core now has their big reward contracts, their two cups and are older, some on the back side of their careers.

If this is the ceiling of the current core there's no point in keeping it intact. The reason to expect that is as I said - the key players are not on their way up, do not still have as of yet unrealized potential. And with their current contracts we also can't afford to give it the level of support it had during its cup years because the core is making more than it was back then. There's not much cheap help with high ceilings to expect from the farm either.

We have a lot of ground to make up to get us from a first round sweep to an actual cup contender again. Which members of this core are going to improve enough to bridge that distance and offset further possible regression from Hedman and Stamkos? Vasy already got back to peak form and we obviously need a lot more. Sergachev finally realizing his potential is the best we can expect. Cirelli needs to remember how to play like a pseudo Selke candidate - he's currently a team worst +/- along with Stamkos who's continued to hold that honor in the postseason now as well. We need JBB to hit on a multiple new support players and be very efficient with the cap and I still doubt that would be enough with this core as it is now.

If we hold on Stamkos and Hedman for the rest of their careers, we're likely just making our eventual rebuild harder without anything to show for it Cup wise. We should have traded Stamkos at the trade deadline - look at what keeping him is getting us this year. Pittsburgh resigned two of their old core guys, they missed the playoffs.

To be clear I'm specifically talking about not keeping Stamkos and Hedman because their contracts are up and they are declining. Resign Stamkos to a good deal and trade him at the deadline next year, trade Hedman next year as well while contenders will still give us returns that could actually replenish what JBB shot out of a firehouse these last couple years.

 

[Rschmitz]

I don't know who is the one who count the hits but that it's a joke lol, any baby bump is not a hit.

Hits are so overrated. Barkov was a rock out there, Bolts were bouncing off of him all night, but he wasn't given credit for a "hit"

 

[LightningStrikes]

Also, the team without the puck is the one putting up the hits. Doesn’t say a lot.

 

[Stammertime91]

dumba is useless.
Lilligren is young, so hard to blame him.
Perbix has disappointed me.
Duclair showing why he's been on so many teams over the years, vanishes when it's important.
Stammer is doing great.
Vasy is doing everything he can.
Jeannot had a screen last night, but other than that hasn't impressed me for shit in the playoffs.

Idk what to think, it's a team game and this team just doesn't have the pieces like previous years where they were nearly unstoppable.

I hate the salary cap, but it is what it is. The team couldn't remain at the level they were. To think a decade run involving 2 cup wins and 4 cup appearances would happen was a dream and I think most teams would take that. There has to be a time when the decline happens, and this might be the start. With some of the core I'd like to think it's not totally over yet, but some retooling will need to happen.

If the ride is over, I've enjoyed the hell out of the sustained success the team has had.

This.

Also, the blueprint this year to beat us was easy. Stop the powerplay and you likely win. Florida is playing incredibly disciplined yet still getting penalized. They read all our entries and movement on the powerplay. No doubt they turned into monks and devoted time to study our PP. It shows.

The lack of 5v5 threats is showing. It needs to be addressed either through coaching or in roster turnover. Sadly, using a lot of cap space for Stamkos doesn't help that.

Florida is beatable and I'm surprised these games were even close. They look good, but not like last year. I think Boston or New York takes them.

 

[Major4Boarding]

@Major4Boarding we gotta break out the good shit man

Sorry. I tried to change the vibe by going but... All I took back from Amalie (besides the L) was the sledgehammer jolt that this club needs an enema

 

[FinnLightning26]

Outmatched, outplayed, outcoached and even outgoalied even though Vasy has been great. The PP has gone completely AWOL at the worst possible time and this team isn't good enough to beat the Panthers 5 on 5.

Jokes on me. I actually believed for a second after our second goal and how good we looked. Then we were completely shut down and that was that.

Couldn't care less if we get swept or not. We're just not good enough to hang with the Panthers and this series hasn't even been fun to watch because at the back of your head you just know we have zero chance pretty much all series.

 

[Stammertime91]

Outmatched, outplayed, outcoached and even outgoalied even though Vasy has been great. The PP has gone completely AWOL at the worst possible time and this team isn't good enough to beat the Panthers 5 on 5.

Jokes on me. I actually believed for a second after our second goal and how good we looked. Then we were completely shut down and that was that.

Couldn't care less if we get swept or not. We're just not good enough to hang with the Panthers and this series hasn't even been fun to watch because at the back of your head you just know we have zero chance pretty much all series.

The effort level has 0 intensity. I'm genuinely surprised we lose so many races to the puck and when we win them, we lose the battle. It doesn't matter who the Lightning player is. Can be any of them, same result. It's like they didn't give a shit coming into the series and thought they'd get by on Kucherov points or something. They started yesterday by giving up the puck and letting Barkov walk out in front within 15 seconds of game 3. They played like they just got back from a team funeral.

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

+4 power play opportunities to Florida, and still lost. Florida didn't even get a power play last night, still scored four 5v5 goals.

Better team is winning, that's all there is to it. Our current situation is a reflection on BriseBois more than it is on any player or coach. Even the best coaches in the world can only help bridge a talent gap against a better opponent so much. Florida is better than us in every aspect of the game.

 

[CupsOverCash]

It's been closer than 3-0 I think bobs kept it from being maybe 2-1 either way in same respect vasis kept it from getting out of hand too. Maybe we get some luck and turn it around. I think luck and a heck of an effort is what we will need but I believe in them tho go bolts!

 

[Antiramie]

Cirelli, Cernak, Duclair, Dumba, Sheary, Jeannot, and Perbix account for ~30% of our cap hit right now and they're all f***ing useless or playing above where they should be in the lineup.

And when Serg comes off LTIR next season we're gonna be paying him and Hedman over $16M and you can make the argument neither is playing like a first pairing D-man these days. Hedman's contract isn't a big deal cause he was a stud when he signed it and it's almost through, but Serg was a bad overpay.

JBB put together a hell of a 3rd line to push us over the edge, but everything else has been pretty putrid.

 

[JTBF81]

I'd like to believe you're right. We did have a good run after the Columbus sweep. But the core was in its prime and/or on its way up then. Our core now has their big reward contracts, their two cups and are older, some on the back side of their careers.

If this is the ceiling of the current core there's no point in keeping it intact. The reason to expect that is as I said - the key players are not on their way up, do not still have as of yet unrealized potential. And with their current contracts we also can't afford to give it the level of support it had during its cup years because the core is making more than it was back then. There's not much cheap help with high ceilings to expect from the farm either.

We have a lot of ground to make up to get us from a first round sweep to an actual cup contender again. Which members of this core are going to improve enough to bridge that distance and offset further possible regression from Hedman and Stamkos? Vasy already got back to peak form and we obviously need a lot more. Sergachev finally realizing his potential is the best we can expect. Cirelli needs to remember how to play like a pseudo Selke candidate - he's currently a team worst +/- along with Stamkos who's continued to hold that honor in the postseason now as well. We need JBB to hit on a multiple new support players and be very efficient with the cap and I still doubt that would be enough with this core as it is now.

If we hold on Stamkos and Hedman for the rest of their careers, we're likely just making our eventual rebuild harder without anything to show for it Cup wise. We should have traded Stamkos at the trade deadline - look at what keeping him is getting us this year. Pittsburgh resigned two of their old core guys, they missed the playoffs.

To be clear I'm specifically talking about not keeping Stamkos and Hedman because their contracts are up and they are declining. Resign Stamkos to a good deal and trade him at the deadline next year, trade Hedman next year as well while contenders will still give us returns that could actually replenish what JBB shot out of a firehouse these last couple years.

If ppg and 40 goals is declining, Tampa isn't in bad shape with Stamkos. Yes, he has his deficiencies, but these playoffs alone show he's still worth keeping imo. Hedman has regressed some, so we'll see what next year brings. If he declines another step next year, I could see Tampa and him parting ways unfortunately. As long as Stamkos is willing to take in the 5.5-6.5 range, I think he stays; anymore than that and he's likely gone.

 

[Crunchrulz]

Hard for some to accept the reality that it was AWESOME while it lasted but every good thing comes to an end sooner or later.
There will be some difficult decisions for the fanbase to accept this off season regarding the roster, but if the team is going to once again move forward in the post season rather than one and done, they have to be made.
The organization and the fan base readily accepted going all in now at the cost of the future, which worked in a way that NO organization or fan base would not have repeated given the same opportunity. Three finals and two Cups in three years is the kind of results hockey fans and organizations dream about.
Now it is time to face the consequences of building those results and move from the current to the future. I am hearing many of the same arguments from two years ago and last year regarding who to keep and who to let go.
It did not work then so how can anyone with an ounce of common sense expect it to work with the same core players that much older while much of the rest of the league gets that much younger and experienced

 

[The Gongshow]

Cirelli, Cernak, Duclair, Dumba, Sheary, Jeannot, and Perbix account for ~30% of our cap hit right now and they're all f***ing useless or playing above where they should be in the lineup.

And when Serg comes off LTIR next season we're gonna be paying him and Hedman over $16M and you can make the argument neither is playing like a first pairing D-man these days. Hedman's contract isn't a big deal cause he was a stud when he signed it and it's almost through, but Serg was a bad overpay.

JBB put together a hell of a 3rd line to push us over the edge, but everything else has been pretty putrid.

Coleman and Goodrow were good pickups, could still be argued as oberpays but they won two cups. But let's not act like God mode vasy, kuch + Point unreal offense leading the playoff scoring. McD(2021) + Hedman(2020) and Palat weren't our main reasons for the cups. JBB took a strong team, pushed them over the edge with 2 depth peices and reaped the rewards.

He gets all that credit for the Yzerplan, he deserves front of the blame for this roster. The bad contracts we complain about are his own doing. He's stuck with having to sign ahl level talent to fill gaps by his own doing.

We lost one player to an expansion draft. That's fine.
Cap not rising also hurts. But JBB has proven he's been letting the wrong players go or mismanaged assets instead of keeping other pieces.

Hagel is the only thing he's done right since 2021

 

[LTIR Trickery]

No chance they part ways with Hedman. What?! Zero.

 

[Peacefool]

I wonder how many minutes Hedman played at third I just saw some defensman and Hedman all the way at 3rd period.

This game showed us trhat we can play, we can hit,we can score,we can push...but we cant clear the puck from the D zone when puck is on our stick, who would think NHL players will have such a problems

 

[Antiramie]

Coleman and Goodrow were good pickups, could still be argued as oberpays but they won two cups. But let's not act like God mode vasy, kuch + Point unreal offense leading the playoff scoring. McD(2021) + Hedman(2020) and Palat weren't our main reasons for the cups. JBB took a strong team, pushed them over the edge with 2 depth peices and reaped the rewards.

He gets all that credit for the Yzerplan, he deserves front of the blame for this roster. The bad contracts we complain about are his own doing. He's stuck with having to sign ahl level talent to fill gaps by his own doing.

We lost one player to an expansion draft. That's fine.
Cap not rising also hurts. But JBB has proven he's been letting the wrong players go or mismanaged assets instead of keeping other pieces.

Hagel is the only thing he's done right since 2021

Yea I’m not giving JBB the majority of the credit for those Cup runs, but he took chances on guys to fill in the necessary gaps and it worked out perfectly. But it’s starting to look like those are the outliers and not the norm.

Like you said at some point you have to realize that hes just not that good at building a more comprehensive lineup. The Jeannot deal alone should have put him on the hot seat. Everything else this year has just solidified that he’s lost/desperate.

 

[Antiramie]

And I’m not taking away from our Cup wins…at all.

But at some point you have to acknowledge that a GM/fanbase is resting on its laurels. And I think we’re there or almost there.

 

[DMB06]

If ppg and 40 goals is declining, Tampa isn't in bad shape with Stamkos. Yes, he has his deficiencies, but these playoffs alone show he's still worth keeping imo. Hedman has regressed some, so we'll see what next year brings. If he declines another step next year, I could see Tampa and him parting ways unfortunately. As long as Stamkos is willing to take in the 5.5-6.5 range, I think he stays; anymore than that and he's likely gone.

I can see a team offering him something like 3x8 or maybe even 9 and I really hope we don't match that. I don't think we will, for two reasons:

1. JBB approaching Stammer several years ago to see if he would waive his no trade indicates JBB believes this team can win without him

2. Our stars usually get a new deal done before the final year of the current deal, and Stammer didn't.

I think it will be a Palat situation where JBB will make the best offer from the teams perspective, knowing Stammer is probably heading elsewhere. It's the right thing to do, in the end the team is what matters most. Your job as a GM is to build for the future when it's clear you aren't a legit contender. Offer Stammer 3x5.5, if he takes it cool, if not...it was fun.

It's why I'm also okay with exploring a Hedman trade. If a team on the cusp believes Hedman could help put them over the top, and they throw 1-2 elite prospects our way with a bunch of picks on top, we have to do it. Five years from now Hedman will either be out of the league or playing 12 mins per game. Those prospects (and possibly picks) might be our new stars. It's all about using assets as efficiently as possible, it sounds cruel but you get out of a player what they have to offer, and then get assets in return when that becomes their greatest contribution to a team. I get loyalty and all of that, but primarily their loyalty is to the fan base considering we're the people who pay all of their bills.

 

[FinnLightning26]

It's been closer than 3-0 I think bobs kept it from being maybe 2-1 either way in same respect vasis kept it from getting out of hand too. Maybe we get some luck and turn it around. I think luck and a heck of an effort is what we will need but I believe in them tho go bolts!

Eh.. the score has really flattered us. We've been completely outplayed 5 on 5 and have led, what, 7 minutes out of 180. That absolutely awful no matter how you look at it.

 

[JTBF81]

I can see a team offering him something like 3x8 or maybe even 9 and I really hope we don't match that. I don't think we will, for two reasons:

1. JBB approaching Stammer several years ago to see if he would waive his no trade indicates JBB believes this team can win without him

2. Our stars usually get a new deal done before the final year of the current deal, and Stammer didn't.

I think it will be a Palat situation where JBB will make the best offer from the teams perspective, knowing Stammer is probably heading elsewhere. It's the right thing to do, in the end the team is what matters most. Your job as a GM is to build for the future when it's clear you aren't a legit contender. Offer Stammer 3x5.5, if he takes it cool, if not...it was fun.

It's why I'm also okay with exploring a Hedman trade. If a team on the cusp believes Hedman could help put them over the top, and they throw 1-2 elite prospects our way with a bunch of picks on top, we have to do it. Five years from now Hedman will either be out of the league or playing 12 mins per game. Those prospects (and possibly picks) might be our new stars. It's all about using assets as efficiently as possible, it sounds cruel but you get out of a player what they have to offer, and then get assets in return when that becomes their greatest contribution to a team. I get loyalty and all of that, but primarily their loyalty is to the fan base considering we're the people who pay all of their bills.

Yeah, if Stamkos won't take 3 or 4 years at 5.5-6 5 max, then he can go. He's still a very good player, but anymore than that and Tampa won't be able at least semi-effectively improve the roster elsewhere(which they definitely must do).

 

[Flat Ronnie]

Yeah, if Stamkos won't take 3 or 4 years at 5.5-6 5 max, then he can go. He's still a very good player, but anymore than that and Tampa won't be able at least semi-effectively improve the roster elsewhere(which they definitely must do).

No offense, but this is kind of insane lol

First, the idea that he should settle (or the team should offer) 5.5-6.5 max is insulting. If you must shed salary you do it with Cirelli and/or Cernak. Much less consequential that way.

Second, thinking you are going to subtract Stamkos and replace him with a couple 3M forwards is going to improve the team is pie in the sky. A couple Anthony Duclairs aren't going to fix anything if you remove Stamkos.

 

[Stammertime91]

didnt realize tomorrow's game was an afternoon one. Yeah, thats a sweep lol