Prospect Info: 23-24 Prospect Poll #5 OA

[AhosDatsyukian]

sure but ceilings are different. Pono's ceiling isnt that high.

It's not as low as you think though. He'll never be a game breaking 1C but there's no reason if he hit his ceiling he couldn't have a David Krejci like long term 2C impact. That's very unlikely but I don't know how you can essentially rule it out this early in his career.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

It's not as low as you think though. He'll never be a game breaking 1C but there's no reason if he hit his ceiling he couldn't have a David Krejci like long term 2C impact. That's very unlikely but I don't know how you can essentially rule it out this early in his career.

based on what exactly? he doesnt have a consistent offensive game to suggest he could be a Krejci like center. He sure doesnt have the size, yet, to handle that either.

his 2 game show was good and all but its very hard to say he would have that level at game 30, 50 or 80 of a season.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

based on what exactly? he doesnt have a consistent offensive game to suggest he could be a Krejci like center. He sure doesnt have the size, yet, to handle that either.

his 2 game show was good and all but its very hard to say he would have that level at game 30, 50 or 80 of a season.

Krejci didn't have any tools that Pono doesn't have. Krejci was a very smart hockey player and worked on his handling and shot and skating to become what he became without any trait that really stood out as being great, just an overall solid, smart hockey player. There is no reason Pono is incapable of being able to do the same thing if things click for him and he works towards hitting his "ceiling."

And frankly, this idea of any player having a "ceiling" is just completely absurd. Every player can continually get better throughout their career. Sure there are certain physical traits that players will never get, but those can be overcome in other areas of the game. The mental aspect can get you very very far in this league. Probably not to McDavid heights but certainly a Krejci level.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Krejci didn't have any tools that Pono doesn't have. Krejci was a very smart hockey player and worked on his handling and shot and skating to become what he became without any trait that really stood out as being great, just an overall solid, smart hockey player. There is no reason Pono is incapable of being able to do the same thing if things click for him and he works towards hitting his "ceiling."

And frankly, this idea of any player having a "ceiling" is just completely absurd. Every player can continually get better throughout their career. Sure there are certain physical traits that players will never get, but those can be overcome in other areas of the game. The mental aspect can get you very very far in this league. Probably not to McDavid heights but certainly a Krejci level.

"ceilings" are glass and can be busted. but players have ceilings none the less

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

"ceilings" are glass and can be busted. but players have ceilings none the less

The ceilings in my house are drywall and framing lumber.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The ceilings in my house are drywall and framing lumber.

you know mine too but my name isnt up here for discussion on playing potential

since i dont live in a glass house, i get to cast stones. weeeee

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

you know mine too but my name isnt up here for discussion on playing potential

since i dont live in a glass house, i get to cast stones. weeeee

I don't believe you.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don't believe you.

i dont believe me either usually

 

[WreckingCrew]

The ceilings in my house are drywall and framing lumber.

 

[bleedgreen]

We will be a lot of things if Heimosalmi ends up a 4C, but I'm not sure "lucky" is one of them.

I made the poor assumption that we all were talking about the forward cluster of Blake/Pono/Koivunen etc….

So I deserved that comment.

I’ve always seen a bit of Vlad Namenstikov in Pono, though that guy put up some decent numbers a few times. Maybe a lower case version of that.

 

[Luigi#17]

without any trait that really stood out as being great, just an overall solid, smart hockey player.

Lol, did you see him play? Krejc was a phenomenal passer.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Lol, did you see him play? Krejc was a phenomenal passer.

Sorry for not being clear but I lump that in with being smart, seeing the ice well, etc. which is what I was giving Krejci the most credit for his success, rather than certain physical traits.

 

[Luigi#17]

Sorry for not being clear but I lump that in with being smart, seeing the ice well, etc. which is what I was giving Krejci the most credit for his success, rather than certain physical traits.

OK

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Where are all the mail-in ballots for Koivunen? C'mon folks.

 

[Stickpucker]

"ceilings" are glass and can be busted. but players have ceilings none the less

Can you name some examples of players who busted their ceiling and ended up a lot better than expected?

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Can you name some examples of players who busted their ceiling and ended up a lot better than expected?

Brad Marchand, Brandon Hagel, Mark Giordano, Jaccob Slavin, Jonathan Marchessault, Carter Verhaeghe, Gustav Forsling, etc etc. That’s just off the top of my head. A combo of late bloomers and guys that just vastly outplayed their draft status.

Not to mention, Ponomarev was a 2nd round pick. Assigning a ceiling of 4th liner to him is entirely and completely arbitrary and based on nothing but vibes. Yes, his style of play suggests a grindier, bottom 6 style. But his production and progression thus far suggests something more. This is a guy who’s been a 1C on most teams he’s ever been on. It’s one thing to guess that that’s where he’ll end up, but saying his ceiling is 4C is ridiculous. We’re not talking about Nick Dodge here.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Brad Marchand, Brandon Hagel, Mark Giordano, Jaccob Slavin, Jonathan Marchessault, Carter Verhaeghe, Gustav Forsling, etc etc. That’s just off the top of my head. A combo of late bloomers and guys that just vastly outplayed their draft status.

Not to mention, Ponomarev was a 2nd round pick. Assigning a ceiling of 4th liner to him is entirely and completely arbitrary and based on nothing but vibes. Yes, his style of play suggests a grindier, bottom 6 style. But his production and progression thus far suggests something more. This is a guy who’s been a 1C on most teams he’s ever been on. It’s one thing to guess that that’s where he’ll end up, but saying his ceiling is 4C is ridiculous. We’re not talking about Nick Dodge here.

IIRC before Slavin and Pesce made the show very suddenly their first professional year, we were ranking them as about our 10th best prospect at that time.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Brad Marchand, Brandon Hagel, Mark Giordano, Jaccob Slavin, Jonathan Marchessault, Carter Verhaeghe, Gustav Forsling, etc etc. That’s just off the top of my head. A combo of late bloomers and guys that just vastly outplayed their draft status.

Not to mention, Ponomarev was a 2nd round pick. Assigning a ceiling of 4th liner to him is entirely and completely arbitrary and based on nothing but vibes. Yes, his style of play suggests a grindier, bottom 6 style. But his production and progression thus far suggests something more. This is a guy who’s been a 1C on most teams he’s ever been on. It’s one thing to guess that that’s where he’ll end up, but saying his ceiling is 4C is ridiculous. We’re not talking about Nick Dodge here.

Yes this is what I was getting at as well.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

IIRC before Slavin and Pesce made the show very suddenly their first professional year, we were ranking them as about our 10th best prospect at that time.

Best Prospects in Canes System - #10

Goes to... wait for it, Jake Slavin. 1. Hanifin 2. Fleury 3. Nedeljkovic 4. Tolchinsky 5 Aho 6. Pesce 7. McKeown 8. Carrick 9. McGinn

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Best Prospects in Canes System - #10

Goes to... wait for it, Jake Slavin. 1. Hanifin 2. Fleury 3. Nedeljkovic 4. Tolchinsky 5 Aho 6. Pesce 7. McKeown 8. Carrick 9. McGinn

forums.hfboards.com

Always fun to see how pointless these ranking exercises are…

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Always fun to see how pointless these ranking exercises are…

My god. Not only did we have Jaccob Slavin at #10 behind Trevor Carrick, but we also had I-did-one-cool-breakaway-at-a-practice Sergei Tolchinsky at #4 above Sebastian Aho.

1. Hanifin​

2. Fleury​

3. Nedeljkovic​

4. Tolchinsky​

5. Aho​

6. Pesce​

7. McKeown​

8. Carrick​

9. McGinn​

10. Slavin​

​

For the record, Aho was JUST drafted and he broke out afterwards. Also, it's pretty sick that of that group, you have 7 NHL regulars (I count Fleury as like a #6/#7).

Apparently we also had Nicolas Roy not get in the top 10, so that's 8 regulars. I'd be surprised if our current farm system gets 8 regulars in the show 9 years from now.

 

[chaz4hockey]

My god. Not only did we have Jaccob Slavin at #10 behind Trevor Carrick, but we also had I-did-one-cool-breakaway-at-a-practice Sergei Tolchinsky at #4 above Sebastian Aho.

1. Hanifin​

2. Fleury​

3. Nedeljkovic​

4. Tolchinsky​

5. Aho​

6. Pesce​

7. McKeown​

8. Carrick​

9. McGinn​

10. Slavin​

​

For the record, Aho was JUST drafted and he broke out afterwards. Also, it's pretty sick that of that group, you have 7 NHL regulars (I count Fleury as like a #6/#7).

Apparently we also had Nicolas Roy not get in the top 10, so that's 8 regulars. I'd be surprised if our current farm system gets 8 regulars in the show 9 years from now.

"I'd be surprised if our current farm system gets 8 regulars in the show 9 years from now."

Actually, I'm thinking it will be higher, 9 or more--Pono, Nikishin, Nadeau, Morrow, FUS are 5 locks.

I'd add Koivunen & probably at least one of our goaltenders and perhaps a couple of defensemen (Nystrom, Heimosalmi). I'd also think that there would be another Ru player hit out of the 12 playing there right now.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

"I'd be surprised if our current farm system gets 8 regulars in the show 9 years from now."

Actually, I'm thinking it will be higher, 9 or more--Pono, Nikishin, Nadeau, Morrow, FUS are 5 locks.

I'd add Koivunen & probably at least one of our goaltenders and perhaps a couple of defensemen (Nystrom, Heimosalmi). I'd also think that there would be another Ru player hit out of the 12 playing there right now.

you have quite the different meaning of lock than I do

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

My god. Not only did we have Jaccob Slavin at #10 behind Trevor Carrick, but we also had I-did-one-cool-breakaway-at-a-practice Sergei Tolchinsky at #4 above Sebastian Aho.

1. Hanifin​

2. Fleury​

3. Nedeljkovic​

4. Tolchinsky​

5. Aho​

6. Pesce​

7. McKeown​

8. Carrick​

9. McGinn​

10. Slavin​

​

For the record, Aho was JUST drafted and he broke out afterwards. Also, it's pretty sick that of that group, you have 7 NHL regulars (I count Fleury as like a #6/#7).

Apparently we also had Nicolas Roy not get in the top 10, so that's 8 regulars. I'd be surprised if our current farm system gets 8 regulars in the show 9 years from now.

And Foegele, and PDG, and Lorentz and even Wallmark

 

[cptjeff]

My god. Not only did we have Jaccob Slavin at #10 behind Trevor Carrick, but we also had I-did-one-cool-breakaway-at-a-practice Sergei Tolchinsky at #4 above Sebastian Aho.

Above Aho was quite stupid, but Tolchinsky was always a boom or bust guy with an extremely high ceiling but no possibility of making the NHL if he couldn't play in the top 6.

And honestly? I still think he could have been that guy in another system that wasn't as obsessed with anti-creative possession system hockey. He's one of the top scorers in the KHL these days, tied for 11th in the league.