Post-Game Talk (GBU): #21 The Good, the Bad, and the Snakebitten

[Heraldic]

After the conversation regarding Larsson's defensive strengths and weaknesses considering our system, I decided to take notes on Larsson's play. from this game

On first period I didn't notice any clear situations where Larsson was on the ice while Blues got pressure on our end.

During the second period there were two pretty indicative examples. Around the clock 17.30 Blues got Sabres stuck on their own end. Larsson as a center most of the time just stood center of our unit - he wasn't close to the puck at all or was giving any pressure. His positioning and play looked a lot like the team last year. No surprise we got a bit stuck there. Not that the defenders were giving lot pressure either, but Larsson wasn't positioned as he could have supported quickly if the defenders were engaged. Really similar situation happened around 4.00 mark. Blues got pressure and Larsson was pretty much positioning himself center of the unit opposed to being close to the puck carrier. The difference for example how ROR played was really evident.

On the 3rd period Larsson becama a lot more active (I'm pretty sure he was guided by the couching staff). On the 17.30 mark Larsson did engage on the board with McCabe. Larsson couldn't get the puck out of the carrier, and he was blocked/pushed by the other Blues player and the puck carrier got space to move towards blueline. Larsson pressured the puck carrier with his stick and the puck carrier passed the puck down through the drill, and McCabe broke the possession. McCabe couldn't get it controlled out and the puck ended up being close to the border. McCabe and Larsson couldn't get the puck, so it was dumped again by Blues player. Bogo broke the possesion by passing it behind him to McCabe and McCabe consecutively to Larsson. Larsson got the puck without having any opponents on him and was able to pass the puck to Ennis.

Around 9.55 mark Larsson engaged against Blues player with McCabe on the right corner on d-zone, but couldn't break the possession. The possession was broke by Foligno and Ennis, who intercepted a pass. Around 6.44 mark Larsson had a puck battle close to the goal, lost it, and the puck was played to the blueline and shot to the goal where it eventually ended up being the game winning goal for Blues.

Larsson didn't make bad reads or positioned himself badly. But at least for me it was pretty obvious that he wasn't good at puck battles or was doing a too good job at engaging or being active before the third period. He didn't break up himself any possessions, but he was able to maintain and transition the puck when the puck was played to him after breaking the possession.

He didn't have a bad game, but this game pointed out pretty well the weaknessess Larsson's defensive game has regarding our system. Him losing a puck battle was bg part of the GWG (sure it wasn't the only part). But he did many times do a good job by transitioning the puck when it was played to him after a possession break up.

I would really appreciate if for example Jame could point out some examples where Larsson did a good job from that perspective, if I did miss something.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

All I'll say is I think Babcock is on to something with this larger net idea...

 

[jrb2590]

you got the feeling after the 1st period of not burying their several chances that the Blues were gonna just score one or two goals and win the game after getting outplayed. Sure enough thats what happened. 1st loss after leading after two and 1st win for the blues when winning after two.

Team is incredibly frustrating because not only is it clear they are 10x the team they were last year, but they have outplayed several top teams in the league this year with nothing to show for it. The lack of finishing, puck luck, whatever the hell it is is getting annoying really quickly. Could have 5 more wins on the year with a couple more bounces/calls/finishes

 

[stokes84]

All I'll say is I think Babcock is on to something with this larger net idea...

Team shooting % is less than 7%. And we aren't even last in the league. Of course, that doesn't include posts, blocked shots, etc. Add in those numbers, what is the shooting % then? Bottom line, it's too hard to score in the NHL these days. It's not a good product.

 

[StlSwedes]

Darren Pang on the Blues broadcast literally said, "Jake Allen and the Blues have been bailed out by the post in this one. It should be 4-0 nothing right now. If the Blues win those missed chances will be the difference" and 15 seconds later the Blues scored their first.



Very frustrating.

 

[Wisent42]

Frustrating is the keyword here. The team played good and should have won. I still think that as long as they're playing good, good things will start to happen. These bad bounces just can't keep happening.

What I found especially good last night was that all four lines played well and that no unit was overwhelmed. While no player stood out as very good, no one stood out as bad either. That's a good thing.

A couple of players worth mentioning:
Gionta had a pretty good game. Not great by any means but he's been bashed a lot (and deserved much of it) so to be fair I think it should be acknowledged that he did well.
Foligno was noticable. Really liked his game. Hitting, fighting, winning battles, overall good. The bad part is that now we probably won't see it again for a couple of weeks.

Are they too ok with losing? Maybe. But a smile on the bench shouldn't be taken as "oh, it's fun to lose!" It could just mean that the spirit is still high. That's a good thing.

 

[BloFan4Life]

I hope Eichel enjoyed his open skate because thats how he looked out there. I have never seen a player take so many shifts off. To me thats on coaching. He needs to see the pressbox a couple games. This shift after shift of just skating is circles out there needs stop before it becomes a habit.

 

[Samsonite23]

Yeah, Byslma has to get something more out of Eichel. It's been too many games recently where he's floating way too much. Make him aware that he needs to pick it up. If he doesn't respond, give him a game in the pressbox. Maybe he's tired or beat up and just needs a rest.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

I hope Eichel enjoyed his open skate because thats how he looked out there. I have never seen a player take so many shifts off. To me thats on coaching. He needs to see the pressbox a couple games. This shift after shift of just skating is circles out there needs stop before it becomes a habit.

And yet, if you go to Blues' game thread, they will tell you how good Eichel looked.

He played pretty well in his own end, and even saved a probable goal with an excellent back check. He was also dangerous on multiple occasions in the offensive zone.

 

[Samsonite23]

And yet, if you go to Blues' game thread, they will tell you how good Eichel looked.

He played pretty well in his own end, and even saved a probable goal with an excellent back check. He was also dangerous on multiple occasions in the offensive zone.

I just don't like how often he floats through shifts. At the beginning of the season, you didn't see that. It's not about him not performing well enough to earn a spot in the lineup, I just don't want it to be a habit of his. You have to get it out of his game early on.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

I just don't like how often he floats through shifts. At the beginning of the season, you didn't see that. It's not about him not performing well enough to earn a spot in the lineup, I just don't want it to be a habit of his. You have to get it out of his game early on.

The Blues game was a marked improvement over the previous week of stinkers

 

[Samsonite23]

The Blues game was a marked improvement over the previous week of stinkers

I think it was definitely than other previously super duper floater games, but he still floated some shifts.

I guess it was a weird time to make the statement. I mean in general over the last bunch of games.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

I think it was definitely than other previously super duper floater games, but he still floated some shifts.

I guess it was a weird time to make the statement. I mean in general over the last bunch of games.

He did have a bad couple of games last week. 2 of the last three games have been pretty good for him. I just did not see the floating you saw in last night's game. In particular, I liked his play in his own zone.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I'm curious as to the advance stats of Eichel compared to Patrick Kane (rookie season only). Eichel is good but that Generational aspect I feel robbed of.

 

[stokes84]

HFBoards: Where 19 year old Jack Eichel is a whipping boy, and Johan Larsson is a hero. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

I'm curious as to the advance stats of Eichel compared to Patrick Kane (rookie season only). Eichel is good but that Generational aspect I feel robbed of.

Bit early to be making that decision isn't it?

 

[Sabre the Win]

Bit early to be making that decision isn't it?

From what I remember Kane looked better at this point and he wasn't tagged Generational but it could be smoke a mirrors; thats why Im curious to advance stats. Kane also had 70 something points in his rookie year. Even Forsberg last year had 60 something so anyone about to use "different era" can keep that argument closed.

 

[OkimLom]

From what I remember Kane looked better at this point and he wasn't tagged Generational but it could be smoke a mirrors; thats why Im curious to advance stats. Kane also had 70 something points in his rookie year. Even Forsberg last year had 60 something so anyone about to use "different era" can keep that argument closed.

And what good with that do having all that information? And who honestly cares if a player is tagged generational or not? It's all media talk so that fans and media have something to talk about and to "label" players.

If you're going to label guys "generational" or elite, you should be doing so at the end of their careers when discussing their careers.

 

[BishesLoveHossa]

G: Many many chances
Ullmark played pretty well
Liked Reinhart's play overall
Outplayed them until the 3rd it seemed. 1st period was ours no doubt

B:Not finishing on said chances
Eichel had a couple plays in the 3rd where he was doing what he does, but other than that it was a quiet night
Des played very physical, but I didn't think he played well outside of that
Kane has to do what we are paying him to do... He had a chance early in the 2nd from what I remember where he tapped it wide.
Ennis I saw standing still a couple of plays where he could have been in a better position

U:The posts
Gionta... Play seemed to die or end up a dump n chase whenever he got it.
Not getting the coaches challenge

 

[Moskau]

HFBoards: Where 19 year old Jack Eichel is a whipping boy, and Johan Larsson is a hero. You can't make this stuff up.

The only thing you can make up is acting like Larsson is treated like a hero.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

And what good with that do having all that information? And who honestly cares if a player is tagged generational or not? It's all media talk so that fans and media have something to talk about and to "label" players.

If you're going to label guys "generational" or elite, you should be doing so at the end of their careers when discussing their careers.

Pretty much this. It's way too early in his career to be deciding if Eichel is going to be "generational" or not, and what other players did in their rookie year is pretty irrelevant to the subject, and to Eichel.

Let the kid play, learn, and grow, and be glad he's a Sabre.

 

[FamilyGuy716]

I'm curious as to the advance stats of Eichel compared to Patrick Kane (rookie season only). Eichel is good but that Generational aspect I feel robbed of.

You're looking at it wrong. Who cares if McDavid is better and Eichel is not generational. I only care if he can help lead us to a Stanley Cup. Just image how good he'll be in 3 years. IMO, he's going to be a great player who leads us to the promised land along with ROR, Reinhart, Risto etc.

 

[Aapo]

After the conversation regarding Larsson's defensive strengths and weaknesses considering our system, I decided to take notes on Larsson's play. from this game

He didn't have a bad game, but this game pointed out pretty well the weaknessess Larsson's defensive game has regarding our system.

Interesting and all, but are you seriously suggesting that any meaningful conclusions regarding general strengths and/or weaknesses (for any hockey player) can be drawn from watching one game? To me, your observations only reflects the strengths and weakness for this particular game...

 

[haseoke39]

Interesting and all, but are you seriously suggesting that any meaningful conclusions regarding general strengths and/or weaknesses (for any hockey player) can be drawn from watching one game? To me, this only reflects the strengths and weakness for this particular game...

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say of course not.

 

[Jame]

Heraldic,

I will have a rebuttal for you soon. There are some points of agreement and disagreement. I do see the attempt to fit certain plays into the "break possession" narrative. And some plays I recall being left out.

I won't get to it today though.