Rumor: 2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Thread: Post Deadline

Pierce Hawthorne

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If the Avs trade Lehky that will close our window.

I'd literally rather play Lehky at 3C than Ross Colton if it came down to losing one of them. They are in different leagues.
That certainly isn't even remotely true :laugh:


People are way too obsessed with him. It would be one thing if the Avs didn't have anybody else on the team that played like him, but they do. They have like 2, maybe 3 other guys on the team that play the same way and at least 1 of them are actually better at it then him. And thats not even counting Landy.


He's like our 7th or 8th most important player. And if Landy can come back at even just 80% of the player he used to be, he replaces Lehky entirely.
 

Bill Peckerskull

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It’s almost like people are willfully ignoring the math, as if math itself doesn’t exist. Even when shown again and again and again.

“Oh, a $91M cap number? OK, I’ll just pretend that the Avs didn’t resign Landeskog a few years ago. Voila!”

Bottom line: If Landeskog is on the roster, a current $4M salary needs to be shed. Pick your $4M poison.
If they move no one, and include Wags, Koval, Behrens, Malinski, and Annunen on the roster, they have $7,260,417 in cap space to resign Mitts, maybe one of Duhaime/Trenin, or go find a 4W/add Ritchie on his ELC, and maybe go find a bottom pairing D. Keep Wags in Loveland, and that adds another $775k.

Nuke/Mack/Mikko
Landy/Mitts/Lehky
Wood/Rosco/Koval
??/Wags/LOC

Toews/Makar
G/Manz
Behrens/Malinski

George
Cheeks
 

LOFIN

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Sep 16, 2011
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I would say decently high. Toews didn't re-sign until just after the start of the season and that was a bit simpler of a deal with a player that doesn't have a history of being difficult in this respect. The last thorny UFAs were all done near the wire (Nuke and Landy). I don't expect a deal for Rants prior to next training camp. Now training camp to early season I could see it. Then the chances are there would be a pause until Feb/March.
The fact that the Avs and Rants have a history when it comes to difficult contract negotiations gives me hope that they'll do the same thing that they did with Tyson Barrie and ROR and trade his ass before they have to deal with this shit again.
It's pretty f***ing unfair to paint Rantanen as this difficult person to negotiate with, when it really was a bunch of these big-name RFAs (Tkachuck, Laine, Point, Rantanen, Marner) who were all up during that offseason, and ALL OF THEM took until just the training camp to sign. Marner signed first, and the rest followed within a week. It was a waiting game to see who sets the market. And Rantanen wasn't even the last person to sign, and he signed for less than Marner, while having a better case than him.

MacKinnon wasn't signed July 1st either, so I hope the lot of you aren't going through "Mikko is this greedy bastard" when the ink isn't drying on the first day of free agency. If he's going to make more than MacKinnon with the Avs, then we can have that discussion.
 
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Avs9296

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That certainly isn't even remotely true :laugh:


People are way too obsessed with him. It would be one thing if the Avs didn't have anybody else on the team that played like him, but they do. They have like 2, maybe 3 other guys on the team that play the same way and at least 1 of them are actually better at it then him. And thats not even counting Landy.


He's like our 7th or 8th most important player. And if Landy can come back at even just 80% of the player he used to be, he replaces Lehky entirely.
3 other guys that play the same way not including Landy? Hahaha do you even watch him play?

Who are they? There's Nuke, then what?
 

henchman21

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It's pretty f***ing unfair to paint Rantanen as this difficult person to negotiate with, when it really was a bunch of these big-name RFAs (Tkachuck, Laine, Point, Rantanen, Marner) who were all up during that offseason, and ALL OF THEM took until just the training camp to sign. Marner signed first, and the rest followed within a week. It was a waiting game to see who sets the market. And Rantanen wasn't even the last person to sign, and he signed for less than Marner, while having a better case than him.

MacKinnon wasn't signed July 1st either, so I hope the lot of you aren't going through "Mikko is this greedy bastard" when the ink isn't drying on the first day of free agency. If he's going to make more than MacKinnon with the Avs, then we can have that discussion.
I would say that all of those players were difficult to negotiate with. Laine and Cheese ended up forcing their way out. Marner has always gotten top dollar. Point waited until the last minute to sign and then got a pretty high dollar deal after. I think it is perfectly okay that Rants negotiates for what he can. Just doesn't change that he has been difficult.

What’s lehky value, 2 firsts out of the question?
1st and B-/C+ prospect for a later first team... so yeah 2 1sts is out of the question. mid to high teens 1st is probably straight up value.

I have been saying this for awhile, but did anything change for you? I thought you were in the camp that didn't expect the Avs to dismantle their newly found center depth.
I'm saying Colton is surely not being moved.
 

EdAVSfan

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I understand the logic, but I’ll definitely be pretty pissed if they move Lehkonen before Colton. (If it’s a forward they end up moving)
 
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RoyIsALegend

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True, but because they're at the point where ELC are going to be the norm cap wise, I'd rather give those two a shot than a league minimum, journeyman retread who hasn't proven they can stick with anyone.

I'm less concerned about the ELCs and unproven dudes, I'm more concerned because I don't think they're compatible. Both high risk, high reward guys. It's not like pairing a PMD with a DFD or TWD. It's two north-south, high risk guys. Given they're both rookies, that's a recipe for disaster.
 

LOFIN

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I would say that all of those players were difficult to negotiate with. Laine and Cheese ended up forcing their way out. Marner has always gotten top dollar. Point waited until the last minute to sign and then got a pretty high dollar deal after. I think it is perfectly okay that Rants negotiates for what he can. Just doesn't change that he has been difficult.
Oh please, you know damn well that the agents are the ones doing the negotiation, and they reflect on the market at hand. The last time they negotiated, it was a special class of RFAs. The players themselves don't really get involved, especially at that age.

In the end, Rantanen was/is still paid below market value (or at least not over market value when you compare him to Marner). So as much as he was "difficult to negotiate with", he signed a pretty good contract for the Avs in retrospect.

I really don't understand why you are trying to use this absolutely BS narrative of "difficult negotiator" to claim that Mikko is somehow going to end up getting paid more than MacKinnon, he arguably took a discount the last time. Marner was his closest comparable, and he signed for almost 2m less after Marner got his deal done. The last time there wasn't an internal cap because MacKinnon was underpaid for what he did during the latter parts of his contract.
 
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henchman21

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I'm less concerned about the ELCs and unproven dudes, I'm more concerned because I don't think they're compatible. Both high risk, high reward guys. It's not like pairing a PMD with a DFD or TWD. It's two north-south, high risk guys. Given they're both rookies, that's a recipe for disaster.
Behrens doesn't play a risky game. He's actually pretty steady and good as a defensive guy if you have him play that role. He's just not nearly as experienced enough to be the guy to babysit Malinski.
 

henchman21

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Feb 24, 2012
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Oh please, you know damn well that the agents are the ones doing the negotiation, and they reflect on the market at hand. The last time they negotiated, it was a special class of RFAs.

In the end, Rantanen was/is still paid below market value (or at least not over market value when you compare him to Marner). So as much as he was "difficult to negotiate with", he signed a pretty good contract for the Avs in retrospect.

I really don't understand why you are trying to use this absolutely BS narrative to claim that Mikko is somehow going to end up getting paid more than MacKinnon, he arguably took a discount the last time. Marner was his closest comparable, and he signed for almost 2m less after Marner got his deal done.
Rantanen held out from training camp. That has not been a common occurrence for the Avs. To spin that and say well Rants was easy once everything else got done is where the narrative is being turned.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

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3 other guys that play the same way not including Landy? Hahaha do you even watch him play?

Who are they? There's Nuke, then what?
Do you watch our team play?

Literally like 3/4s of our forward group play the same style as Lehky. Ferocious on the forecheck, busting their tails off every shift, driving the front of the net... They're all grinders. Trenin, Wood, LOC, and Parise in particular play this style almost exactly like Lehky. Now Lehky is better than them as he's particularly better defensively(And Nuke is even better than Lehky), but they're still all the same version of player, just at different skill levels.

Nuke is the 1st line version, Lehky is the 2nd line version, Wood and LOC are the 4th liner version. Trenin is probably the 3rd line version(Though not quite).


I also think Mittelstadt is quickly establishing himself as being fairly similar as well. Probably not quite as ferocious on the forecheck but just as strong as Lehky defensively and with a tonne more skill and creativity.


If Landy comes back at a legit Top 6 level, between he and Nuke in the Top 6 the Avs simply would not miss Lehky nearly as much as you think they would.
 

RoyIsALegend

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Behrens doesn't play a risky game. He's actually pretty steady and good as a defensive guy if you have him play that role. He's just not nearly as experienced enough to be the guy to babysit Malinski.

That's the concern with almost any rookie.

A contending team won't put two rookies together on their own D pairing, especially when one is like Malinski. Not setting either guy up for success like that.
 

henchman21

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Feb 24, 2012
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That's the concern with almost any rookie.

A contending team won't put two rookies together on their own D pairing, especially when one is like Malinski. Not setting either guy up for success like that.
Yup totally agree… it’ll be one or the other most likely. IMO the Avs would be best off to get a rugged RD bottom pairing guy to pair with Behrens over Malinski. But JMFJ is easier to keep around for a minimum paycheck.
 
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John Mandalorian

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Oh please, you know damn well that the agents are the ones doing the negotiation, and they reflect on the market at hand. The last time they negotiated, it was a special class of RFAs. The players themselves don't really get involved, especially at that age.

In the end, Rantanen was/is still paid below market value (or at least not over market value when you compare him to Marner). So as much as he was "difficult to negotiate with", he signed a pretty good contract for the Avs in retrospect.

I really don't understand why you are trying to use this absolutely BS narrative of "difficult negotiator" to claim that Mikko is somehow going to end up getting paid more than MacKinnon, he arguably took a discount the last time. Marner was his closest comparable, and he signed for almost 2m less after Marner got his deal done. The last time there wasn't an internal cap because MacKinnon was underpaid for what he did during the latter parts of his contract.

In support of this sentiment, Rantanen literally said in an interview that he intends to re-sign with the Avs. Maybe it becomes a difficult negotiation but that could be on the Avs for asking him to take too much of a haircut. Either way, if Rantanen was playing hardball or posturing, telling the media he intends to re-sign with the Avs isn’t exactly something you’d expect.
 

Avs9296

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Do you watch our team play?

Literally like 3/4s of our forward group play the same style as Lehky. Ferocious on the forecheck, busting their tails off every shift, driving the front of the net... They're all grinders. Trenin, Wood, LOC, and Parise in particular play this style almost exactly like Lehky. Now Lehky is better than them as he's particularly better defensively(And Nuke is even better than Lehky), but they're still all the same version of player, just at different skill levels.

Nuke is the 1st line version, Lehky is the 2nd line version, Wood and LOC are the 4th liner version. Trenin is probably the 3rd line version(Though not quite).


I also think Mittelstadt is quickly establishing himself as being fairly similar as well. Probably not quite as ferocious on the forecheck but just as strong as Lehky defensively and with a tonne more skill and creativity.


If Landy comes back at a legit Top 6 level, between he and Nuke in the Top 6 the Avs simply would not miss Lehky nearly as much as you think they would.
Miles "donkey" Wood plays like Arturri Lehkonen?

Ok now I've heard it all. That's enough internet for me for one day.

Of all those guys you mentioned, only Nuke plays a comparable game. LOC as a watered down version can do it in spurts, but he hasn't shown he can do it for an 82 game season (even at his 3rd or 4th line level). The rest? Not even f***ing close.
 

LOFIN

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Rantanen held out from training camp. That has not been a common occurrence for the Avs.
Why do you ignore the circumstances of that being a special summer for RFAs, and why do you keep projecting that the same thing will happen this time around? Point signed 5 days earlier than Rantanen, he signed his third deal at the end of July. Tkachuk signed 3 days before Rantanen, he signed his third deal during the third week of July (in conjunction with the trade to Florida). Laine signed one day before Rantanen, he signed his third deal the same day Tkachuck did (third week of July).

Just because all of these players dragged it onto the training camp the last time, didn't mean they dragged on with their second negotiation. Or, on the other hand, MacKinnon signed his first RFA deal in July. And his latest extension was announced few days before training camp. Is MacKinnon a hard negotiator now?

Maybe Rantanen signs July 1st after winning a cup. Or maybe he's traded after we lose out in the 2nd round. Or maybe his contract negotiation drags on until the next summer, because like with Landeskog, they would rather keep him as an own rental than trade him for assets?

Who knows. What I do know, is that you can't say with this absolute conviction that Rantanen is a hard negotiatior, and because of this false premise of yours, he's determined to get more than MacKinnon.
 

EdAVSfan

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Do you watch our team play?

Literally like 3/4s of our forward group play the same style as Lehky. Ferocious on the forecheck, busting their tails off every shift, driving the front of the net... They're all grinders. Trenin, Wood, LOC, and Parise in particular play this style almost exactly like Lehky. Now Lehky is better than them as he's particularly better defensively(And Nuke is even better than Lehky), but they're still all the same version of player, just at different skill levels.

Nuke is the 1st line version, Lehky is the 2nd line version, Wood and LOC are the 4th liner version. Trenin is probably the 3rd line version(Though not quite).


I also think Mittelstadt is quickly establishing himself as being fairly similar as well. Probably not quite as ferocious on the forecheck but just as strong as Lehky defensively and with a tonne more skill and creativity.


If Landy comes back at a legit Top 6 level, between he and Nuke in the Top 6 the Avs simply would not miss Lehky nearly as much as you think they would.
That’s the rub though.

IF Landy comes back at a legit top 6 level.

What if he doesn’t? You’ve already traded Lehkonen away at that point and the season has started.
 
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ABasin

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If they move no one, and include Wags, Koval, Behrens, Malinski, and Annunen on the roster, they have $7,260,417 in cap space to resign Mitts, maybe one of Duhaime/Trenin, or go find a 4W/add Ritchie on his ELC, and maybe go find a bottom pairing D. Keep Wags in Loveland, and that adds another $775k.

Nuke/Mack/Mikko
Landy/Mitts/Lehky
Wood/Rosco/Koval
??/Wags/LOC

Toews/Makar
G/Manz
Behrens/Malinski

George
Cheeks

Your problem here, is that you have $7M in cap space (assuming no rollover bonuses) and only 18 players signed. You need to sign 4 more players at a minimum, If not 5 (22 man roster vs. 23 man roster), one of whom is Mittelstadt, who is going to cost $6M. So, after they sign Mittelstadt, they have a bit over $1M left to fill out the roster.

Given league minimums, the remaining 3 roster players (or even 4) are going to cost $750K each, at a minimum. Hence, the Avs will need another $2.25M-$3M to sign the 3 or 4 players to fill out the roster. In reality, reasonable depth players often cost $800K-900K, so those numbers quite easily go to $3M-$4M. In your scenario, they only have $1M left in cap space. They need $4M+.

In conlusion:

THIS CANNOT BE DONE. THEY NEED TO TRADE A CURRENT 2024/25 $4M CONTRACT.

Pick your $4M poison.
 
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henchman21

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Feb 24, 2012
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Why do you ignore the circumstances of that being a special summer for RFAs, and why do you keep projecting that the same thing will happen this time around? Point signed 5 days earlier than Rantanen, he signed his third deal at the end of July. Tkachuk signed 3 days before Rantanen, he signed his third deal during the third week of July (in conjunction with the trade to Florida). Laine signed one day before Rantanen, he signed his third deal the same day Tkachuck did (third week of July).

Just because all of these players dragged it onto the training camp the last time, didn't mean they dragged on with their second negotiation. Or, on the other hand, MacKinnon signed his first RFA deal in July. And his latest extension was announced few days before training camp. Is MacKinnon a hard negotiator now?

Maybe Rantanen signs July 1st after winning a cup. Or maybe he's traded after we lose out in the 2nd round. Or maybe his contract negotiation drags on until the next summer, because like with Landeskog, they would rather keep him as an own rental than trade him for assets?

Who knows. What I do know, is that you can't say with this absolute conviction that Rantanen is a hard negotiatior, and because of this false premise of yours, he's determined to get more than MacKinnon.
I’m not saying he’s going to take until he’s a UFA to sign. I’m saying he’s going to want to get paid. He’s proven he’s willing to push it to get paid more. This time the Avs just know they can’t wait forever for him to come down. Just like those names. Teams know they have to pay up, so they do.

Not sure why you think this is such a slight on Rants… it is simply business.

MacK negotiated much harder than people thought (remember all the discount talk? FTR I think he did give a slight discount). Many here expected him below 11m and closer to 10. Yet he wanted to be the highest paid player, for however short of time that ends up being. I have zero issue with that, but it wasn’t as simple of negotiation as people thought it would be.
 

ABasin

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That’s the rub though.

IF Landy comes back at a legit top 6 level.

What if he doesn’t? You’ve already traded Lehkonen away at that point and the season has started.
This is the situation that has me concerned also. They really need some insight into Landeskog's health/prognosis in July, not in October.
 

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