Rumor: 2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Thread: Post Deadline

[GoNordiquesGo]

Don't feed trolls

Good point.
I remember the "you can't win a cup with a guy like Kadri as 2C" and "you can't win a cup with a guy like Compher at 3C", and the...

The being said, there's a good dozen teams with reasonable cup expectations, so our odds can't be much higher than 10ish %...

 

[Iceberg]

It's much safer to take the literally last 2 seasons of play that Byram had stalled on with us than a few playoff series back in 22 as the more likely scenario. Also, the whole Jones/Malinski in the lineup scenario if Walker goes down due to injury would have existed if we had just kept Byram as well. We now have a more balanced top 4 with 2 lefty LD and 2 right RD. Not even counting the bottom pair here since that's not the issue. We now also have the added benefit of a MacK-MittelJost center combo in the top 6. Surely, you understand that the nature of this trade was to give up on Byram's future "potential" in exchange for a supreme area of weakness in 2C and a guy that's literally been markedly better this season in Walker no? That's not even mentioning that we somehow also got rid of RyJo during this whole ordeal.

I only mentioned Byram because YOU keep mentioning him. And i still don't understand why.

Back at trade deadline day i said we needed to add another D, but managed didn't think so... An to me that will eventually bit us in the ass.

Again, I don't believe we have enough to go all the way.

Good point.
I remember the "you can't win a cup with a guy like Kadri as 2C" and "you can't win a cup with a guy like Compher at 3C", and the...

The being said, there's a good dozen teams with reasonable cup expectations, so our odds can't be much higher than 10ish %...

You don't remember when Pierce called Barrie a 1st pairing D and wanted to sign him to a long term extension at 8-9M???

 

[Foppa2118]

Byram wasn't part of my initial post...

I only mentioned Byram because YOU keep mentioning him. And i still don't understand why.

Funny how you and nobody else was even talking about Byram, but his detractors found a way to bring him up again, even though he's not even on the team anymore.

I like the part about knowing the actuality of a 22 year old defenseman that's played less than 2 regular seasons's worth of games

It's also just not supported by the facts whatsover that Bo doesn't care about defense, and only selfishly cares about offense.

This is a guy who focused on defense at the expense of offense his entire last year in junior.

This is a guy who focused on defense in a top pairing role at the WJC and then even though he dominated the last game with the puck, he literally cried on the ice when the team didn't win Gold.

This is a guy who shook his head and laughed when Cale said he'd break Avs records like him one day.

This is a guy who focused on defense the entire Stanley Cup run, helped shut down McDavid, Draisailt, Stamkos, and Kucherov and many believed was the best defenseman in the finals because of his defense.

This is a guy who was visibly upset with himself when he’d make a defensive mistake or turnover that lead to a goal this year.

There’s literally nothing to support that he doesn’t care about defense, excpet a false narrative, and certainly not less than Girard or Makar, who have their own troubles defensively, are just as aggressive and risky with their game, and might have been even more so than Byram this year.

 

[Hasbro]

For folks wanting/clamoring to win now, there sure is a lot of consternation over the Avs choosing the player who was performing better now.

Not like he got traded for a rental either.

 

[Iceberg]

For folks wanting/clamoring to win now, there sure is a lot of consternation over the Avs choosing the player who was performing better now.

Byram wasn't in the conversation until someone mentioned him for no reason.

My original point was/is, you can't win with Girard playing top 4 minutes in the playoffs, and we lack depth to replace him (or any other D).

 

[Foppa2118]

I never said he was good in that series, he obviously wasn’t—merely that some players were worse and that he was a lot more hurt than the Avs would ever admit. But yet some on this forum are so fixated on his one performance in that series to the point of ridiculousness.

And I’d blame bad goaltending for a least a few of those goals against.

Do you happen to remember what G's injury was during the Vegas series? I don't recall and wasn't able to find it.

Did you mean the Avs didn't admit he was hurt, or they admitted it, but didn't say how bad? Doesn't sound like we know much either way.

 

[Pokecheque]

Do you happen to remember what G's injury was during the Vegas series? I don't recall and wasn't able to find it.

Did you mean the Avs didn't admit he was hurt, or they admitted it, but didn't say how bad? Doesn't sound like we know much either way.

No they never said he was hurt but he had been playing great down the stretch that season...at least he was IMHO.

Then this happened.



Forgot this was a totally blown icing call so f*** that idiot linesman in addition to that has-been Labanc.

I don't know what the hell it was with the irrelevant Sharks hurting key Avs players in a nothing game late in the season but that happened two years in a row, lest we forget that dumbf*** Hertl injuring Nazem Kadri before the Cup run.

That happened on April 30, 2021. G didn't play again until May 12, two games before the playoffs started. He just wasn't the same.

And just for context, this was one of the goals that counted minus-4 against Sammy. I hope no one is actually blame him for it.

 

[Foppa2118]

And just for context, this was one of the goals that counted minus-4 against Sammy. I hope no one is actually blame him for it.

No that one definitely wasn't his fault. Would be surprised if anyone thought that.

He didn't tie up the stick in front of the net, but it wasn't deflected, so it wasn't the cause for the goal. Grubauer was just looking in the corner when the shot was taken.

 

[Pokecheque]

No that one definitely wasn't his fault. Would be surprised if anyone thought that.

Just the point that everyone slagging Sammy's playoff performances just throw context completely out the window.

And to be clear I'm not here saying he should be considered for the Conn Smythe, just that he's only had one bad playoff performance, and there are several reasons it looked as bad as it did that were not the fault of the guy wearing #49.

I mean, apart from one run that got everyone's hopes up, Jost was abhorrent in the postseason, and Graves continually got his arse handed to him once the forechecking and physicality got ramped up. People just assume because he's a big guy he can handle a heavy forecheck but the exact opposite is true.

 

[Richard88]

I just can't see Mitts signing for 5M. He is going to be turning 26. He will want to get paid. IMO he doesn't sign for anything less than 6.5M unless he has a very average rest of the season, and I doubt that happens on this team.

At $6.5m the Avs would probably be looking for more term which may not be what Mittelstadt wants. He may be better served long term by signing a cheaper short deal now to set himself up for a big payday after 2-3 years of being the Avs 2C, instead of going long term at $6.5m.

Essentially it would be setting like:

$6.5m X 6

Vs

$5m X 2 + $8m X ___ years

 

[Foppa2118]

Then this happened.



That happened on April 30, 2021. G didn't play again until May 12, two games before the playoffs started. He just wasn't the same.

Didn't he play ok in the Blues series in round 1 though? He was +2, had 2 assists in 4 games, and averaged 22-23 minutes a game.

Again, I want to preface this by saying, that none of this should define Sammy as a player yet. he can still be a big positive contributor in the playoffs.

But if he was hurt on that play, that would also increase the concern over his ability to withstand the physicality of the playoffs. Even though that was a dirty play, another player might not have been hurt.

Also even though +/- is a very flawed stat, he's been a minus player in 4 of his 6 playoff seasons, including each of his last 3. It's not really just one year.

By contrast, it's telling that none of the other D men (Makar, Toews, Byram, JJ) have been minus players in the playoffs for the Avs, except Manson once last year, when he was obviously playing badly hurt himself. Bo was +15 in 20 games during the Cup run.

 

[CobraAcesS]

At $6.5m the Avs would probably be looking for more term which may not be what Mittelstadt wants. He may be better served long term by signing a cheaper short deal now to set himself up for a big payday after 2-3 years of being the Avs 2C, instead of going long term at $6.5m.

Essentially it would be setting like:

$6.5m X 6

Vs

$5m X 2 + $8m X ___ years

If you can get him long term you do it IMO. The only way we're going to be relevant years in the future is if we can get some of these contracts to look amazing based on cap inflation. You can't do that if you let core players keep signing short deals.

Casey is a core player, assuming he's open to a long term contract.

Not knocking exploring the perspective, but "future" and "2C" are trigger words.

 

[Pokecheque]

Didn't he play ok in the Blues series in round 1 though? He was +2, had 2 assists in 4 games, and averaged 22-23 minutes a game.

Again, I want to preface this by saying, that none of this should define Sammy as a player yet. he can still be a big positive contributor in the playoffs.

But if he was hurt on that play, that would also increase the concern over his ability to withstand the physicality of the playoffs. Even though that was a dirty play, another player might not have been hurt.

Also even though +/- is a very flawed stat, he's been a minus player in 4 of his 6 playoff seasons, including each of his last 3. It's not really just one year.

By contrast, it's telling that none of the other D men (Makar, Toews, Byram, JJ) have been minus players in the playoffs for the Avs, except Manson once last year, when he was obviously playing badly hurt himself. Bo was +15 in 20 games during the Cup run.

The Blues weren't much in that series, they hardly posed a threat. Even going in most of us would have been somewhat surprised if St. Louis won even one game in that series. So the depth just wasn't taxed all that much. The next round it was taxed heavily and IMO that's when it got exposed.

As for durability, he's been hampered or flat-out taken out of the playoffs in 2021 and 2022 because of a dirty hit behind the net (I don't what anyone, even AJ Haefele says, that hit by Barbashev was dirty AF). That's just more bad luck than anything else. I don't see why his ability to play through/avoid injury is under more scrutiny than Makar's or Manson's.

 

[Richard88]

If you can get him long term you do it IMO. The only way we're going to be relevant years in the future is if we can get some of these contracts to look amazing based on cap inflation. You can't do that if you let core players keep signing short deals.

Casey is a core player, assuming he's open to a long term contract.

Not knocking exploring the perspective, but "future" and "2C" are trigger words.

Chances are in 3-4 years this teams window is already closed so it won't really matter if Mittelstadt prices himself out or gets a bigger contract AAV than he would if you sign him long term now. Either way it just depends how long one thinks the window is.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Further to my post above, here's an AGM roster for 2025/26 with Mittelstadt signed at $5m X 2-3 years and Rantanen at $12.5m.

2025 - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Create your own team. Trade, sign, recall, reassign, and buyout players as though you were your favourite teams general manager.

www.capfriendly.com

Clearly the cap situation is workable without having to trade anyone, so long as one is comfortable going short term with Mittelstadt to keep his AAV down. If the aim is to maximize the teams chances of a cup the next two years (which would involve not losing any key/core pieces via trades) then biting the bullet and going short term on Mittelstadt would be a decent move.

Fwiw a 2 year deal for Mittelstadt would line up with Manson's $4.5m coming off the books. A 3 year deal would line up with the expiring of Lehkonen and Coltons deals. So plenty of flexibility there if and when the time would come to re-sign Casey as an UFA.

Behrens - Malinski on the bottom pair is an interesting play, both smaller guys but skilled in differing ways.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Chances are in 3-4 years this teams window is already closed so it won't really matter if Mittelstadt prices himself out or gets a bigger contract AAV than he would if you sign him long term now. Either way it just depends how long one thinks the window is.

Casey is good enough, and young enough he could be a 2C for 8 or more years. If you have a few guys that stick around in core slots, retooling should be easier.

 

[missionAvs]

I only mentioned Byram because YOU keep mentioning him. And i still don't understand why.

Back at trade deadline day i said we needed to add another D, but managed didn't think so... An to me that will eventually bit us in the ass.

Again, I don't believe we have enough to go all the way.



You don't remember when Pierce called Barrie a 1st pairing D and wanted to sign him to a long term extension at 8-9M???

I keep bringing up Byram because he was the asset used to correct our biggest weakness. He also would have been our #3 guy going into the playoffs even though he really would have been our 4-5 given that Little G has outperformed him mostly this season. We can't ice a top 6 D comprising of all top 4 guys whilst simultaneously running RyJo/Colton as our 2C and expect to get anywhere. The fact remain that right now, we have a top 4 D that's easily in debate for being the strongest of playoff teams and at worst top 3. Better yet, our center rotation is actually a strength now irregardless of your wanting to add an additional D before all this movement really went down. As it stands, the Avs have 4 top 4 D playing in the lineup. That's a mighty fine rotation to have IMO.

My last point is that any team that loses their #3D in the playoffs is going to hurt and have to play someone up the lineup that shouldn't be there. That's not exclusive to us.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't see why his ability to play through/avoid injury is under more scrutiny than Makar's or Manson's.

This part is a fair point. Both have injury issues themselves. I'd argue they both have been bigger playoff contributors, and haven't had the same kind of negative ones though.

Good discussion.

 

[Iceberg]

I keep bringing up Byram because he was the asset used to correct our biggest weakness. He also would have been our #3 guy going into the playoffs even though he really would have been our 4-5 given that Little G has outperformed him mostly this season. We can't ice a top 6 D comprising of all top 4 guys whilst simultaneously running RyJo/Colton as our 2C and expect to get anywhere. The fact remain that right now, we have a top 4 D that's easily in debate for being the strongest of playoff teams and at worst top 3. Better yet, our center rotation is actually a strength now irregardless of your wanting to add an additional D before all this movement really went down. As it stands, the Avs have 4 top 4 D playing in the lineup. That's a mighty fine rotation to have IMO.

My last point is that any team that loses their #3D in the playoffs is going to hurt and have to play someone up the lineup that shouldn't be there. That's not exclusive to us.

Problem #1 (please focus on this one) - Sammy G is a 5’10” D that gets pushed around during playoff hockey. He will play almost 20 minutes per game.

This shouldn't be the case, because it's not new information. We know that for what? Three years now? His lack of size will hurt us down the stretch.

Problem #2 - IMO, we could've added a veteran, bottom pairing D, as insurance policy (especially knowing how frail G is).

I have no problem with the Byram trade, it was a fair hockey trade. Also, getting Walker to replace him in the lineup while dumping RyJo was a great move.

But they could/should have done a little more to help our chances of going deeper in the playoffs.

 

[missionAvs]

Problem #1 (please focus on this one) - Sammy G is a 5’10” D that gets pushed around during playoff hockey. He will play almost 20 minutes per game.

This shouldn't be the case, because it's not new information. We know that for what? Three years now? His lack of size will hurt us down the stretch.

Problem #2 - IMO, we could've added a veteran, bottom pairing D, as insurance policy (especially knowing how frail G is).

I have no problem with the Byram trade, it was a fair hockey trade. Also, getting Walker to replace him in the lineup while dumping RyJo was a great move.

But they could/should have done a little more to help our chances of going deeper in the playoffs.

Again though, what does that have to do with Little G? Your original post stated that we are going into the playoffs with Little G as our #3 and yet in this post you're talking about adding a bottom pairing veteran? If the argument is that we should have added the bottom pairing depth defender, then I'm all for it. Little G/Walker would still be our #3 in that scenario.

 

[Iceberg]

Again though, what does that have to do with Little G? Your original post stated that we are going into the playoffs with Little G as our #3 and yet in this post you're talking about adding a bottom pairing veteran? If the argument is that we should have added the bottom pairing depth defender, then I'm all for it. Little G/Walker would still be our #3 in that scenario.

Problem #1 (FOCUS ON THIS ONE) should've been corrected two or three years ago. And that is why i have very little confidence this year's team can win a Cup.

But maybe, if we had addressed Problem #2 this past TDL, we would at least have a better option to enter the lineup when G goes down (we know it's gonna happen eventually).

I love G, but he shouldn't be playing for a Cup contender, he should be playing for a team with lesser expectations, helping a younger team.

 

[missionAvs]

Problem #1 (FOCUS ON THIS ONE) should've been corrected two or three years ago. And that is why i have very little confidence this year's team can win a Cup.

But maybe, if we had addressed Problem #2 this past TDL, we would at least have a better option to enter the lineup when G goes down (we know it's gonna happen eventually).

I love G, but he shouldn't be playing for a Cup contender, he should be playing for a team with lesser expectations, helping a younger team.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. No team is completely ironclad going into the playoffs but regardless of Little G's stature, he's still a top 4 D on a cup contender. I would also argue that Little G would be deployed in a top 4 spot on plenty of playoff teams and not just those with lesser expectations. This team already has a solid top 4 and Manson who is a 4-5 most nights but can have bouts of winding back the clock and playing like a top 4 guy. This team won't win/lose a cup due to having Little G in the top 4.

 

[niwotsblessing]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this. No team is completely ironclad going into the playoffs but regardless of Little G's stature, he's still a top 4 D on a cup contender. I would also argue that Little G would be deployed in a top 4 spot on plenty of playoff teams and not just those with lesser expectations. This team already has a solid top 4 and Manson who is a 4-5 most nights but can have bouts of winding back the clock and playing like a top 4 guy. This team won't win/lose a cup due to having Little G in the top 4.

As highlighted above- this is always the truth in the Cap era.

Plus, Manson can play like a Boss some nights, and lay waste to the opposition.

 

[dahrougem2]

Further to my post above, here's an AGM roster for 2025/26 with Mittelstadt signed at $5m X 2-3 years and Rantanen at $12.5m.

2025 - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Create your own team. Trade, sign, recall, reassign, and buyout players as though you were your favourite teams general manager.

www.capfriendly.com

Clearly the cap situation is workable without having to trade anyone, so long as one is comfortable going short term with Mittelstadt to keep his AAV down. If the aim is to maximize the teams chances of a cup the next two years (which would involve not losing any key/core pieces via trades) then biting the bullet and going short term on Mittelstadt would be a decent move.

Fwiw a 2 year deal for Mittelstadt would line up with Manson's $4.5m coming off the books. A 3 year deal would line up with the expiring of Lehkonen and Coltons deals. So plenty of flexibility there if and when the time would come to re-sign Casey as an UFA.

Pretty sure Parise said he is retiring at the end of this season.

 

[cinchronicity]

Pretty sure Parise said he is retiring at the end of this season.

I would be interested to see if Parise would sign with the Avs at the TDL. They guy would be amazing depth for a playoff run. He might try for Cup#2 if he did not have to slog through 82 games (or if the Avs bonk this year, one more run at a cup.)