Prospect Info: 2024 NHL Draft Thread

Brodeur

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the devils dont need another unknown at 10 middling around the lineup for a couple years before we know what we got. this team has a window now they need to improve the lineup in oct and trading this pick will go a long way in doing that.

Doug Wilson nearly dealt #9 and Tomas Hertl to St. Louis for T.J. Oshie and Kevin Shattenkirk. I guess he had a change of heart and they drafted Timo Meier with the pick.

Definitely a tough dilemma, maybe Oshie/Shattenkirk could have put them over the top in 2016. But Hertl/Timo extended their window for a couple of seasons.

Just to repeat an earlier thought, I'd shop a 2025 protected 1st before moving this year's pick. I do like the top dozen or so guys in this year's class.
 

Guttersniped

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I do like the top dozen or so guys this year. Reminds me a bit of 2010/2012 where the gap between say #3/4 to #9/10 doesn't appear as large as other years.

Couple anecdotes about some of those 10th overalls:

2007: Florida was all set to take Logan Couture. They had done a lot of background work on him since he had an injury history. Unfortunately for the Panthers, Couture's junior club (Ottawa 67's) kept a close relationship with San Jose GM (and 67's alum) Doug Wilson and let him know about Florida. On the day of the draft, San Jose traded for pick #13 but knew they had to leapfrog Florida to get Couture. Luckily for them, St. Louis was looking to move down from #9 after unsuccessfully trying to trade up for Jakub Voracek.

2010: I attended that draft in LA and was horrified when Cam Fowler (and Brandon Gormley) dropped to the Rangers at #10. I jumped out of my seat when they announced Dylan McIlrath as their pick. Everybody around me was initially puzzled why a guy in a Devils jersey was cheering a Rangers pick. I forget how close the Rangers were to taking Vladimir Tarasenko or if the Russian factor scared them off.

2012: Filip Forsberg curiously slipped out of the top 10 that year. Speaking of junior ties, Steve Yzerman went to his 'alma mater' to take Slater Koekkoek who missed most of that year due to injury.

2016: Charlie McAvoy (TSN #14) and Jakob Chychrun (TSN #13) were on board.

2017: Martin Necas (TSN #11) and Nick Suzuki (TSN #12) were also available.

2018: Edmonton apparently was going to take Ty Smith until Evan Bouchard unexpectedly slipped a couple spots.

2019: Attended that draft and a local Vancouver TV crew asked me who I'd take with the Canucks pick at #10. I said Matt Boldy would look fantastic next to Elias Pettersson.

2021: Ottawa went way off the board on Boucher. Pretty sure everybody involved with that decision has been sacked. I think I had them taking Jesper Wallstedt in my mock draft that year. They were also in a tough spot since there seemed to be a top tier of 9 players plus 2 goalies and they were picking 10th. The 9 guys went as expected and then they bypassed the goalies.

2010: One of the great tragedies of the decline of the Internet is losing all the websites/blogs written by humans from 90s-10s.

But thanks to the magic of the Wayback Machine the epic Blueshirt Banter’s comment thread from 2010 Draft is available! link

You can see Rags fans definitely wanted Fowler when he fell, though they also wanted Gormley, and they also definitely didn’t want Tarasenko.

Trading down for Etem was another idea here, ironically Anaheim would get both Fowler and Etem.

Starting at Minnesota’s pick at #9 but it takes a while to get to the NYR at #10
Highlighted where the picks happen in red
Highlighted some random but choice comments in yellow (yeah, they’re pretty random, whatever lol)
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*THE NYR PICK HAPPENS HERE*
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*Stars Take Campbell Instead of Fowler at #11 Here*
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*Ducks Draft Fowler at #12 Here*
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JrFischer54

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It’s that your usual point is that these kids don’t contribute right away, and goalies are generally the longest wait. Askarov was drafted in 2020 - the same year as Dawson Mercer who has 3 full years of NHL play already.
I’d be willing to draft a legit goalie prospect at 10 if one was there let him mature bring in a stop gap for 4 years and bring the kid up. Any other player there I trade the pick for help now in the lineup
 

My3Sons

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I’d be willing to draft a legit goalie prospect at 10 if one was there let him mature bring in a stop gap for 4 years and bring the kid up. Any other player there I trade the pick for help now in the lineup
Four years is so long in pro sports.
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

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Don't mean to come off as a douche but do any of us expect to have the first rounder draft night? I'm leaning 80-20% no, feels like they're gonna package it for Saros
 
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Guadana

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Don't mean to come off as a douche but do any of us expect to have the first rounder draft night? I'm leaning 80-20% no, feels like they're gonna package it for Saros
Overall you can go with it to the Devils roster/season/offseason thread. As other traders.

Four years is so long in pro sports.
Buium and Dickinson will be ready in one or two years for bottom pair role.
Nygard looks like he needs one or two more seasons.
Helenius should start next season in AHL at least. For him Benson is quite comparable player (with some remarks), so he is one two years away from bottom line role in NHL.
I don't know what Iginla can learn from his junior league competition after next season, he is already much better than environment, but he can't play in ahl next year and after draft, so I expect him to see in nhl after one season.

From shooooort but could be existing perspective of unhappy Nico it would be great to draft player with top-6 center potential.
 

longislanddevil

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@Guadana Now that we know the Devils pick is 10OA (unless a team behind them wins a lotto ball), what are the respective chances of Buium, Dickinson and Iginla being on the board? Curious how you’d handicap the odds.

I’m fairly certain Brandsegg-Nygard and Helenius will be available at that spot.

With this said, I think there is a very real chance Fitz trades this pick for Saros. I’d rather have Markstrom due to the acquisition cost being cheaper.
 
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Monsieur Verdoux

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I watched a couple of shift-by-shift games on Iginla and Helenius.

Offensively Iginla seems to be a very promising player with a good shot and hands. Defensively I wasn't as impressed, because he looks too passive without the puck and many times he is just standing still. I also expected to see more hustle and physicality from him, but perhaps his last name has just created a false expectations for me. It's possible that those two games weren't a good sample size of what he can do, but I was a little bit underwhelmed on him.

I liked Helenius more. He is smaller than Iginla, but he seems to have more compete in his game. Or as Pronman has wrote: "Helenius isn't a big center, but he gives strong efforts off the puck, doesn't shy from going to the net and has an edge to his game." Helenius has a high hockey IQ and some skill and creativity. Downside is his size (5' 10.75") and his skating could be better though I wouldn't say it's weakness for him. He reminds me of Zach Benson. I don't know if it is good or bad player comparison. :laugh:

Just my two cents on these players.
 

Guadana

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I watched a couple of shift-by-shift games on Iginla and Helenius.

Offensively Iginla seems to be a very promising player with a good shot and hands. Defensively I wasn't as impressed, because he looks too passive without the puck and many times he is just standing still. I also expected to see more hustle and physicality from him, but perhaps his last name has just created a false expectations for me. It's possible that those two games weren't a good sample size of what he can do, but I was a little bit underwhelmed on him.

I liked Helenius more. He is smaller than Iginla, but he seems to have more compete in his game. Or as Pronman has wrote: "Helenius isn't a big center, but he gives strong efforts off the puck, doesn't shy from going to the net and has an edge to his game." Helenius has a high hockey IQ and some skill and creativity. Downside is his size (5' 10.75") and his skating could be better though I wouldn't say it's weakness for him. He reminds me of Zach Benson. I don't know if it is good or bad player comparison. :laugh:

Just my two cents on these players.



@Guadana Now that we know the Devils pick is 10OA (unless a team behind them wins a lotto ball), what are the respective chances of Buium, Dickinson and Iginla being on the board? Curious how you’d handicap the odds.

I’m fairly certain Brandsegg-Nygard and Helenius will be available at that spot.

With this said, I think there is a very real chance Fitz trades this pick for Saros. I’d rather have Markstrom due to the acquisition cost being cheaper.
Hm… if everything will stay the same

SJ will draft Celebrini.

Chaciago can do anything - D, Demidov or Lindstrom

Ducks should draft Levshunov(may be other RD but I think Levshunov is their guy). Let’s hope they will not draft Lindstrom.

Jackets have huge need in centers, so if Lindstrom is available, he is their pick. If not, they will draft forward - Catton or Demidov, their defensive pool is very good.

Arizona can do anything, less likely Catton. I think they can draft Silayev, they will draft
Demidov if he is available, or Dickinson if Chicago will draft other big LD and Demidov isn’t available. They don’t afraid to draft Russians. But, Simashev and Demidov would be a great “Bad company”. They need defenseman more.

And Montreal needs center very hard. I believe they will draft Catton if Jackets will draft other forward. Or Demidov, if Celebrini is number 1, Lindstrom 2, Levshunov 3, Catton 4, Silayev/Dickinson 5. They already said many times they like Demidov. May be they will be the first team who can draft Iginla in specific situation.

So at this moment Celebrini, Lindstrom, Demidov, Catton should go away. Jackets and Montreal have huge need in offensive talent, especially from center. Levshunov as a high profile RD should be picked too. Ducks are good at everything besides RD.

Ottawa need RD, so I beLiege they can be the first team who can draft Yakemchuk. Or Parekh. Or they will draft Dickinson if he is available. At this moment I think the chance of Dickinson availability is lower. They don’t like to draft small players, reason why I think they will prefer Yakemchuk over Parekh if they want RD, but Parekh is projected as Karlsson if everything will be good, so who knows. They can draft Buium too.

Seattle should not draft Helenius. Other that that I really don’t know. They have need in defensemen, they have need in offensive talents. They are very stats oriented, reason why I don’t think they will draft players like Eiserman. Parekh? I don’t know. May they will draft Iginla, but they need more driving talent. It’s really hard for me to predict.

I don’t know what Calgary and Conroy think about Iginla. They need center, they need talented defensemen. They need driving talent. Iginla is a good pick to sell rebuild around him. They should like Russian players now, because even with the trade of Zadorov there were no scandal, he wanted to sign with them, he just asked more than they were ready to pay. So may be they will draft Silayev if he is available.
________

So I think Dickinson most likely will be drafted before us. Chicago, Arizona, Ottawa, Seattle and even Calgary looks like teams who can draft him.
Buium is more tricky.
Same with Iginla.

I see two out of three chances there will be available at least one of Buium or Iginla, Buium less likely. One chance out of three in my mind.
I still would prefer Nygard, Chernyshov or Helenius over Iginla.
Iginla is very good, but he is average skater without good separation speed, he isn’t playmaker with average overall iq and some holes in defensive game.
Helenius has good speed(even with some questions about first step), but very intelligent, Benson is a very good comparison. Much smarter player than Iginla with better positional game.
Same with Nygard - much better all around player, has center potential, he is bigger and better skater in the same time, as good as shooter. Much better two way player with better positional game.
Chernyshov is doing the same with much better separation speed, he is bigger, as good or even better in different aspects of puck handling, as good in offensive passing.

I really hope Fitz will not bite by position and name in case of Iginla. He still very good pick, but Nygard, Chernyshov and Helenius are better. All of them are better defensively, with better skating and speed. Nygard and Chernyshov are bigger, as good as shooters or not so far away, Nygard and Helenius are smarter. Chernyshov is more gifted.
 

MasterofGrond

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I'd be very pleased with Helenius. Obviously I'd prefer Catton or Lindstrom, but while I thought there was a small chance Catton would drop a couple months ago, I think that ship has definitely sailed.

Helenius is good, he was very strong in Liiga this year (and even last year), especially for a guy who still hasn't turned 18. I don't think he has any elite skills, but the overall package is strong and he doesn't have a ton of weak spots.
 

longislanddevil

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I can’t help but think of Kaapo Kakko when it comes to a top prospect with no discernible elite skills. I recall he was said to be really good in all areas but just didn’t have that singular standout trait. I fully concede this may be an irrational fear of mine but I get nervous now when I hear about prospects devoid of an elite skill. Based on much of what I’ve read about Helenius, he seems to fit a similar profile?

Don’t get me wrong. The kid seems like a very promising player with a solid floor. His ceiling appears somewhat limited. I have warmed to the idea of drafting Helenius and he would certainly fill an organizational need at the center position. Can someone assuage my concerns? Does anyone have similar reservations?
 

MasterofGrond

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I can’t help but think of Kaapo Kakko when it comes to a top prospect with no discernible elite skills. I recall he was said to be really good in all areas but just didn’t have that singular standout trait. I fully concede this may be an irrational fear of mine but I get nervous now when I hear about prospects devoid of an elite skill. Based on much of what I’ve read about Helenius, he seems to fit a similar profile?

Don’t get me wrong. The kid seems like a very promising player with a solid floor. His ceiling appears somewhat limited. I have warmed to the idea of drafting Helenius and he would certainly fill an organizational need at the center position. Can someone assuage my concerns? Does anyone have similar reservations?
I think a better comparison would be maybe Wyatt Johnston. Obviously not a perfect comparison, and I don't think they profile the same in the NHL, but that's a dude who gets more out of the toolkit than you would expect, and didn't have a WOW skill back in 2021.

Kakko's problem is I just think he's actually got below average Hockey IQ. I think Helenius doesn't.
 

longislanddevil

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I think a better comparison would be maybe Wyatt Johnston. Obviously not a perfect comparison, and I don't think they profile the same in the NHL, but that's a dude who gets more out of the toolkit than you would expect, and didn't have a WOW skill back in 2021.

Kakko's problem is I just think he's actually got below average Hockey IQ. I think Helenius doesn't.

You raise a great point in that there are plenty of NHL players who get the best out of their abilities. From what I’ve read, Helenius is a very smart player with good hockey IQ and strong compete level. Those two traits are important and are somewhat comforting to me.
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

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Overall you can go with it to the Devils roster/season/offseason thread. As other traders.

Lol fair, probably was the wrong thread to ask in but figured more talk in was about the draft. I would love to keep this pick to get Nygaard or Iginla. I have to look more into Chernyshenov after you've been talking him too. A lot of great talent on the board with this pick.
 

Guadana

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Lol fair, probably was the wrong thread to ask in but figured more talk in was about the draft. I would love to keep this pick to get Nygaard or Iginla. I have to look more into Chernyshenov after you've been talking him too. A lot of great talent on the board with this pick.
You should understand i was told it without negative. Im okay to have conversation about trading this pick especially if compensation is tasty. Of course we have different level view of tastyness of compensation. Just would prefer to continue to argue about in in the offseason thread and focus on prospects.
 
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evnted

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I can’t help but think of Kaapo Kakko when it comes to a top prospect with no discernible elite skills. I recall he was said to be really good in all areas but just didn’t have that singular standout trait. I fully concede this may be an irrational fear of mine but I get nervous now when I hear about prospects devoid of an elite skill. Based on much of what I’ve read about Helenius, he seems to fit a similar profile?

Don’t get me wrong. The kid seems like a very promising player with a solid floor. His ceiling appears somewhat limited. I have warmed to the idea of drafting Helenius and he would certainly fill an organizational need at the center position. Can someone assuage my concerns? Does anyone have similar reservations?
so much of kakko's dominance in finland relied on advantages that went away, or at the very least were diminished, in the nhl. the pace is faster and the rink is smaller than what he was excelling on. he's absolutely still a bull on the puck but he's struggled to find and gain space against bigger, faster, and more importantly smarter opponents. his dominant puck possessions frequently dont yield a result because he doesn't know what he's doing with it and can't pry open space and/or outwork the opposition to buy lanes. what good is his high end handling if he constantly puts himself back in traffic?

add on top of that the fact that his skillset was largely overrated at the time anyway (faster than jack lol good one, valiquette) and that NYR loves to stifle their forward prospects as much as possible and you arrive at what he is today, a fine checking line option. he does not read play well enough to get open, his shooting ability is at a lower level than i wouldve thought it would be, his playmaking game isnt there because it relied on his ability to generate space to find easy lanes (which was just mentioned to be an issue), and he doesnt think or skate quickly enough to consistently shake pressure

obviously theres hindsight in this discussion. he looked like a great prospect at the time and i think his success and forsberg-like puck dominance (particularly down low) masked a number of flaws and translation concerns with his game. theres discussions to be had about needing more time/a change of scenery, issues with the finnish development system, this and that, but at the end of the day he does have some value, just nowhere near what most people expected

now, in the context of helenius, his vision and playmaking upside are much better than what kakko offers, which right away should give some optimism. youve already seen me defend his game as something that i think will benefit, not hurt, from translating to smaller space where his elite anticipation and ability to play through contact/target space will only become that much more valuable

on top of that, when you see people praise something like his puck battles or ability to generate offense from the boards, hes already doing this without a big mobility or size advantage. kakko wasnt a giant per se, but he was and will remain much bigger than helenius. we can be more confident that helenius will translate these skills because of how he: leverages his body to fight for space (by going under and up into defenders), applies his crafty stick checking to seamlessly pry pucks away, and uses his smarts/vision to find space to attack

it is totally valid to have doubts about just how high end of a player konsta can become, but i don't really believe there's much of a parallel between his long term outlook and where kakko is today
 

ZachaFlockaFlame

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You should understand i was told it without negative. Im okay to have conversation about trading this pick especially if compensation is tasty. Of course we have different level view of tastyness of compensation. Just would prefer to continue to argue about in in the offseason thread and focus on prospects.

I'm honestly more for keeping it, this team needs more stud ELC's with this team competing. If they get one in the top 6 in their big window then I'm all for it. The issue is Fitz's desperation this offseason is very evident.
 
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Brodeur

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I thought draft year Kakko looked fantastic, I liked him better than I did Slafkovsky in 2022. But maybe that's why I'm an armchair scout.


Updated Pronman rankings for those interested. Of pertinence to us, his top of the board by tier:

Tier 1: Celebrini
Tier 2: Levshunov, Yakemchuk
Tier 3: Buium, Silayev, Catton
Tier 4: Parekh, Demidov, Dickinson, Helenius
Tier 5: Lindstrom, Sennecke, Jiricek, Eiserman, Iginla
 

BurntToast

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Pronman is about
1 production
2 size
3 skating
only

at least he made a step after his focus on production some more time ago and skating vs production some less time ago.

He is also big on compete. A prospects’ compete factor can close talent gaps. How many times have we seen high picks flame out? Guys who put in the work, typically make the NHL in some shape or form.
 
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Poppy Whoa Sonnet

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I thought draft year Kakko looked fantastic, I liked him better than I did Slafkovsky in 2022. But maybe that's why I'm an armchair scout.


Updated Pronman rankings for those interested. Of pertinence to us, his top of the board by tier:

Tier 1: Celebrini
Tier 2: Levshunov, Yakemchuk
Tier 3: Buium, Silayev, Catton
Tier 4: Parekh, Demidov, Dickinson, Helenius
Tier 5: Lindstrom, Sennecke, Jiricek, Eiserman, Iginla
Adding Lindstrom to the Devils prospect pool would be very exciting.
 

Guadana

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He is also big on compete. A prospects’ compete factor can close talent gaps. How many times have we seen high picks flame out? Guys who put in the work, typically make the NHL in some shape or form.
Im not agree on his view on compete. He is talking about it but Im not see it in his final rankings.


1 production
2 size
3 skating

Tier 1: Celebrini
Celebrini
Productive, skilled, nice size, very good skater. High IQ.

Tier 2: Levshunov, Yakemchuk
Levshunov - very productive and very big, very good skater. His compete level is... he is active. IQ is very diggerent in different situations.

Yakemchuk - VERY VERY productive. And big. His compete level... not so great if we are polite. Bad positionally. His IQ... again - different situation. But he isnt your smartest guy to draft at all.

Tier 3: Buium, Silayev, Catton

Buium - very very productive, Okay size but bulky, compete level is average. Very high iq.

Silayev - great size and great skating. He is.. productive for 17 yo in KHL, but he is not in reality. His stick work with the puck is veeery meh. He is good positionally, but overall his decision making with the puck even on MHL level is average.

Catton - great production, skating is average\above average, compete level... lets say average. Or even below average. Great offensive IQ.

Tier 4: Parekh, Demidov, Dickinson, Helenius

Parekh is very productive, average skating, below average physics.
Demidov is very productive, average below average size, skating above average. But he is freaking genius in different situations, very creative.
Dickinson is huge, good skater, good production.
Helenius is average but fast skater, productive but not so really really high. And he is small.

So for me its looks like those 1-2-3 punch for him.

Overall its better to read and listen guys like him because he is watching a lot. Every scout has their own preferences.
 
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