Pre-Game Talk: 2024 Draft Thread

[Blueston]

https://x.com/lassialanen/status/1768664785963319353?s=20

Really impressive microstat profile on MBN

he is really good player, but question is offensive upside. like is he gonna be more torpo or kreider?

 

[STL fan in MN]

I haven't seen enough of Dickinson yet to fully evaluate, but I was very underwhelmed. Puck skills were nothing special, he can skate for sure but offensive players were able to get space against him with dekes. Good tools, didn't see a top tier D prospect.

I see him the same way. He has all the tools, the size, is already physically mature etc. That seems to have people enamored. He’s a safe bet to be a quality d-man for a long time. But I’ll be shocked if he’s the best d-man out of this draft. Just not seeing the elite smarts needed to truly separate yourself with him. Reminds me of Zach Bogosian.

 

[Blueston]

I see him the same way. He has all the tools, the size, is already physically mature etc. That seems to have people enamored. He’s a safe bet to be a quality d-man for a long time. But I’ll be shocked if he’s the best d-man out of this draft. Just not seeing the elite smarts needed to truly separate yourself with him. Reminds me of Zach Bogosian.

funny, levshunov is one that give me bogosian vibes. dickinson i see lot of noah hanifan in, maybe even better skating petro. but you guys are astute observers, so i could well be overrating him. regardless, without lottery luck i don't see us having shot at drafting any of the top 3 d.

 

[STL fan in MN]

funny, levshunov is one that give me bogosian vibes. dickinson i see lot of noah hanifan in, maybe even better skating petro. but you guys are astute observers, so i could well be overrating him. regardless, without lottery luck i don't see us having shot at drafting any of the top 3 d.

He just doesn’t have the vision/hockey sense Petro has IMO. Great skater though.

And I could certainly be wrong. I have been before and while I’ve focused in on a lot of these D, I’m not following this draft’s crop as closely as last year’s.

I question Levshunov’s decision making sometimes too. But more so in that he seems to force plays too much. Tries to do too much sometimes. Dickinson I see more as he simply didn’t see the opportunity in the first place. I’d rather deal with someone that needs to be reigned in a bit over someone whose vision seems to be lacking a bit.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I see him the same way. He has all the tools, the size, is already physically mature etc. That seems to have people enamored. He’s a safe bet to be a quality d-man for a long time. But I’ll be shocked if he’s the best d-man out of this draft. Just not seeing the elite smarts needed to truly separate yourself with him. Reminds me of Zach Bogosian.

I was going to combine Bogosian with Bret Hedican. I’m sure he will skate everywhere. I’m not sure if He’ll ever ever put any points up but be a good D man.

he is really good player, but question is offensive upside. like is he gonna be more torpo or kreider?

Seems like an all-star third liner to me, but is that worth a middle first round pick? If the scoring comes look out.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Honestly, not loving this draft. I am constantly updating my rankings after watching guys (games, not just highlights) and it's almost always to lower them. Like nearly every time I watch virtually any prospect in this draft outside of top 8 (celebrini, demidov, catton, lindstrom, helenius, lev, sil, and dickinson in some order) they look less impressive than I would expect for their ranking so I lower them.

If we don't get top 8 pick, and it's looking doubtful, we are going to, we will basically get a prospect that is on par with late 1st last year. There are good players there, to be sure, but we are going to be generally looking at middle 6 wingers, bottom 6 centers, and bottom 4 d, and whether we pick 10 or 20 doesn't change that. i trust our scouting team to find a good player, but we need to be realistic about what we can expect and unless someone unexpectedly falls, it is likely less than you would think at our draft position.

Rather than really make a top 32, 64 or whatever I’ve made six different columns one being defenseman one being centers, one being wingers and then have them divided by left and right hand shot. I just did top 20 list based that way.

 

[Blueston]

He just doesn’t have the vision/hockey sense Petro has IMO. Great skater though.

And I could certainly be wrong. I have been before and while I’ve focused in on a lot of these D, I’m not following this draft’s crop as closely as last year’s.

I question Levshunov’s decision making sometimes too. But more so in that he seems to force plays too much. Tries to do too much sometimes. Dickinson I see more as he simply didn’t see the opportunity in the first place. I’d rather deal with someone that needs to be reigned in a bit over someone whose vision seems to be lacking a bit.

it's an interesting question. i suspect they both end up as pretty darn good, but which one is better? Then again, Petro is 3rd best d in his class and he's still going to HOF.

Seems like an all-star third liner to me, but is that worth a middle first round pick? If the scoring comes look out.

in this draft? yes. last year it would have put him maybe early 2nd?

 

[kimzey59]

Honestly, not loving this draft. I am constantly updating my rankings after watching guys (games, not just highlights) and it's almost always to lower them. Like nearly every time I watch virtually any prospect in this draft outside of top 8 (celebrini, demidov, catton, lindstrom, helenius, lev, sil, and dickinson in some order) they look less impressive than I would expect for their ranking so I lower them.

If we don't get top 8 pick, and it's looking doubtful, we are going to, we will basically get a prospect that is on par with late 1st last year. There are good players there, to be sure, but we are going to be generally looking at middle 6 wingers, bottom 6 centers, and bottom 4 d, and whether we pick 10 or 20 doesn't change that. i trust our scouting team to find a good player, but we need to be realistic about what we can expect and unless someone unexpectedly falls, it is likely less than you would think at our draft position.

Comparing this years crop to last years crop is not even remotely fair.
Last years crop was not even remotely "normal". It was considered a "super Draft", the "best in 8 years", etc...

I get that recency bias has to come into effect to some extent, but last year is not the draft you compare anything to. There's just no way to be fair about it.

 

[MissouriMook]

Just skimming the OHL website and noticed that 18 year old Anthony Romani is leading that league in scoring and is undrafted, yet I don’t remember seeing him on any top prospect lists. By his birthday it appears that he might have been eligible last year and not drafted, which is always a bad omen for the prospect, but there is obviously something there. He’s a month younger than Dvorsky. Anyone with any insight on his game, in particular why he might not be favored among the draftniks?

 

[Blueston]

Comparing this years crop to last years crop is not even remotely fair.
Last years crop was not even remotely "normal". It was considered a "super Draft", the "best in 8 years", etc...

I get that recency bias has to come into effect to some extent, but last year is not the draft you compare anything to. There's just no way to be fair about it.

last year was super bc of strength at the top, my sense is after top 10 it was good but not special. look at 22 then. that was much better too. regardless, my broader point wasn't just that last year was better, but that this year is, after first 8 or 9, fairly poor.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

last year was super bc of strength at the top, my sense is after top 10 it was good but not special. look at 22 then. that was much better too. regardless, my broader point wasn't just that last year was better, but that this year is, after first 8 or 9, fairly poor.

I would definitely agree offensively. Many guys drafted in the second round last year would be first rounders this year. I would also say that the guys last year were a lot smaller than the guys this year. At least it seems that way at the top of the draft

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Just skimming the OHL website and noticed that 18 year old Anthony Romani is leading that league in scoring and is undrafted, yet I don’t remember seeing him on any top prospect lists. By his birthday it appears that he might have been eligible last year and not drafted, which is always a bad omen for the prospect, but there is obviously something there. He’s a month younger than Dvorsky. Anyone with any insight on his game, in particular why he might not be favored among the draftniks?

I’ve got to watch him quite a few times. He’s good. Nothing stands out. Nothing you walk away with is elite. Just ends up on the scoresheet.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Just skimming the OHL website and noticed that 18 year old Anthony Romani is leading that league in scoring and is undrafted, yet I don’t remember seeing him on any top prospect lists. By his birthday it appears that he might have been eligible last year and not drafted, which is always a bad omen for the prospect, but there is obviously something there. He’s a month younger than Dvorsky. Anyone with any insight on his game, in particular why he might not be favored among the draftniks?

Yeah, he was eligible last season and went undrafted. He’s ranked 90th by McKeen’s this season, 81st by Central Scouting (NA Skaters list).

I haven’t really watched him but putting up that many points suggests he should be taken a bit sooner. Maybe he has some sort of fatal flaw like horrific skating? Idk.

 

[STL fan in MN]

it's an interesting question. i suspect they both end up as pretty darn good, but which one is better? Then again, Petro is 3rd best d in his class and he's still going to HOF.

That 2008 draft looks pretty insane in hindsight. There was a ton of hype around the d-men of that draft and if anything, I think they exceeded expectations.

This draft is similar in structure. An elite forward at the top in Celebrini (compared to Stamkos in 2008) and then a bunch of d-men. But where it’s different is I just don’t see this year’s D crop matching that year’s D crop. I could see a couple of them becoming elite but it’s harder to project which ones it’ll be this time around…if any.

 

[Stealth JD]

Awesome article on Cole Eiserman at The Athletic. I know a lot of people here have soured on him, but I’d have no problem drafting the kid, though I suspect he’ll be long gone before the Blues draft. I could see him going top-5 still.

Behind Cole Eiserman, the 2024 NHL Draft's complicated top scorer

As a person and as a player, Eiserman — a projected top pick in this year’s NHL Draft — has often been often misunderstood and miscast.

theathletic.com

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Awesome article on Cole Eiserman at The Athletic. I know a lot of people here have soured on him, but I’d have no problem drafting the kid, though I suspect he’ll be long gone before the Blues draft. I could see him going top-5 still.

Behind Cole Eiserman, the 2024 NHL Draft's complicated top scorer

As a person and as a player, Eiserman — a projected top pick in this year’s NHL Draft — has often been often misunderstood and miscast.

theathletic.com

I mean the Fanbase will need a new whipping boy after they trade Kyrou

 

[bleedblue1223]

I do wonder if there is someone we like around the 8-12 range, would we be willing to and would other teams be willing to consider an offer of our 1st and 1 or both 2nds. I don't think it's unreasonable for Army to move up a decent amount. Might not be able get that close to the top, but maybe get someone a tier up from where we'll be drafting.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I do wonder if there is someone we like around the 8-12 range, would we be willing to and would other teams be willing to consider an offer of our 1st and 1 or both 2nds. I don't think it's unreasonable for Army to move up a decent amount. Might not be able get that close to the top, but maybe get someone a tier up from where we'll be

I don’t think I would outside of getting in the top 8. Not that much difference in the players at this point.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

it's an interesting question. i suspect they both end up as pretty darn good, but which one is better? Then again, Petro is 3rd best d in his class and he's still going to HOF.

4th best [Doughty, Karlsson, Josi], and I don't know that "3 2nd-team NHL selections, 3 top-5 Norris Trophy finishes, 0 top-3 Norris Trophy finishes" gets him in even with a Cup x2.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

4th best [Doughty, Karlsson, Josi], and I don't know that "3 2nd-team NHL selections, 3 top-5 Norris Trophy finishes, 0 top-3 Norris Trophy finishes" gets him in even with a Cup x2.

He's going to be an interesting case. While he doesn't have the individual hardware, the teams he's played for have enjoyed incredible success. He's missed the playoffs three times in his entire career (Once being his rookie season) while simultaneously filling the role of top D-man on almost every single one. He's extremely durable, having missed very few games, while also logging major minutes. He's been the model of consistency, never putting up huge numbers in any given season, but never having a woofer either. Then you factor in that he's won a WJC gold, a World Cup gold, an Olympic gold, and 2x Stanley Cups. He always elevated his game in the playoffs too, as he was clearly the best player (Not d-man, but player) for us on multiple trips to the playoffs.

If he finishes out his current contract with seasons similar to his career average, it's not a stretch that he'll retire with over 1,250 games played and somewhere around 750 points, with another 150ish playoffs games so long as Vegas doesn't crap the bed the next 3 years. That's a shit ton of longevity. Maybe he's more Hall of Very Good, and he won't get in right away, but I could see him start getting buzz simply for his overall body of work.

You use Doughty as a comparable, who I think has had higher peaks but lower valleys then Petro (But everyone seems to plug as a shoe in for the hall of fame.) Doughty came into the NHL two years ahead of AP, so his counting stats are higher, but AP actually has a higher PPG, with Doughty at .5696 and AP at .5948.

 

[Blueston]

4th best [Doughty, Karlsson, Josi], and I don't know that "3 2nd-team NHL selections, 3 top-5 Norris Trophy finishes, 0 top-3 Norris Trophy finishes" gets him in even with a Cup x2.

forgot josi was that year. can argue carlson too. my point was only that where these guys rank amongst the other d in class is only part of the question. how good are they overall? and all the bs on this board aside, i think vegas winning last year was tipping point for petro to get in hof.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

He's going to be an interesting case. While he doesn't have the individual hardware, the teams he's played for have enjoyed incredible success. He's missed the playoffs three times in his entire career (Once being his rookie season) while simultaneously filling the role of top D-man on almost every single one. He's extremely durable, having missed very few games, while also logging major minutes. He's been the model of consistency, never putting up huge numbers in any given season, but never having a woofer either. Then you factor in that he's won a WJC gold, a World Cup gold, an Olympic gold, and 2x Stanley Cups. He always elevated his game in the playoffs too, as he was clearly the best player (Not d-man, but player) for us on multiple trips to the playoffs.

If he finishes out his current contract with seasons similar to his career average, it's not a stretch that he'll retire with over 1,250 games played and somewhere around 750 points, with another 150ish playoffs games so long as Vegas doesn't crap the bed the next 3 years. That's a shit ton of longevity. Maybe he's more Hall of Very Good, and he won't get in right away, but I could see him start getting buzz simply for his overall body of work.

You use Doughty as a comparable, who I think has had higher peaks but lower valleys then Petro (But everyone seems to plug as a shoe in for the hall of fame.) Doughty came into the NHL two years ahead of AP, so his counting stats are higher, but AP actually has a higher PPG, with Doughty at .5696 and AP at .5948.

forgot josi was that year. can argue carlson too. my point was only that where these guys rank amongst the other d in class is only part of the question. how good are they overall? and all the bs on this board aside, i think vegas winning last year was tipping point for petro to get in hof.

Both of you make good points, I'm just saying the HHOF case for Pietrangelo isn't a slam dunk by any stretch and people are going to have to reach back and recall some of the points you both raise to say oh, yeah, he was better than everyone gave him credit for.

 

[Blueston]

Both of you make good points, I'm just saying the HHOF case for Pietrangelo isn't a slam dunk by any stretch and people are going to have to reach back and recall some of the points you both raise to say oh, yeah, he was better than everyone gave him credit for.

i don't think you have to have ever been the best at your position to make hall. i think wearing letter for 2 different franchises when they won 1st cup, his international success, and generally having long successful career where you were top 10d in league for basically a decade and arguably top 5 for most of it, that to me gets you in. i don't think the standard should be are you as good as chris pronger bc we would maybe have less than 10d in hall. i think bar is unfortunately above jaybo, but (without regards to the events of his exit) petro i think clears it.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Watching Burns and Mayich last night, I got to see a few draft hopefuls. Battaglia was probably the most impressive. If he is there in the third, I hope the Blues take him. Good size, speed, and responsible. Frasca I don’t see. Just not very smart with or without the puck. Cost them a goal. Mews is great at that level offensively. Not good on defense and plays small. Made some bad turnovers Kingston didn’t capitalize on. Marelli isn’t a pick. Not much to see and looks really small. Chromiak is probably a depth guy on D. Not much there to see kind of like Mayich. Mayich plays a strong defensive role maybe 3rd pair. Again, impressed with Burns. He is Kingstons number one D by default. I think he could log a lot of NHL minutes as the defensive first pass partner for a Faulk Krug type D.

 

[sfvega]

I can't get over how bad the 14-16 spot looks in this draft. Just ugly.