2023-24 Ted Lindsay Award finalists: Nikita Kucherov, Nathan MacKinnon, Auston Matthews

[pcruz]

How much of the season did Matthews play with Marner and Nylander?

I’ll give you a hint: it’s infinitely more than Pastrnak did, and he still outscored him.

The same applies to Kucherov, who VASTLY put scored him.

But again, “greatest season of all time”

How much of the season did Matthews play with Nylander?

None.

How much of the season did Matthews play with Marner? Around 55 games.

Who was the left winger of record for the season?

Everyone.

Knies, Jarnkrok, Bertuzzi, Holmberg, McMann, Gregor, Domi.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yet 25 goals more than Kucherov. 18 more goals than MacKinnon.

Leafs fans are correct on this one. Fantastic season. You have to look at the overall picture.

Kucherov, like 60points more than anyone on his team.

Matthews, like 8.

You’re right, you’ve got to look at the overall picture.
There’s is absolutely nothing about a guy who’s 6th in league scoring having “one of the best seasons of all time”
It’s literally laughable

 

[Fantomas]

Kucherov, like 60points more than anyone on his team.

Matthews, like 8.

You’re right, you’ve got to look at the overall picture.
There’s is absolutely nothing about a guy who’s 6th in league scoring having “one of the best seasons of all time”
It’s literally laughable

I think Matthews's season is third best this year behind MacK and Kucherov, but not far off.

As for "one of the best," depends on how long the list is. These are three great seasons by three great players.

 

[nbwingsfan]

How much of the season did Matthews play with Nylander?

None.

How much of the season did Matthews play with Marner? Around 55 games.

Who was the left winger of record for the season?

Everyone.

Knies, Jarnkrok, Bertuzzi, Holmberg, McMann, Gregor, Domi.

Matthews did not play zero games on the same line as Nylander. That’s blatantly false.

That’s also 55 more games than Kucherov or Pastrnak got to play with an offensive player like that.

Then there’s this whole PP thing where they all play together.

The linemate comparisons are not even close and certainly not in Matthews favour

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

I think Matthews's season is third best this year behind MacK and Kucherov, but not far off.

As for "one of the best," depends on how long the list is. These are three great seasons by three great players.

I actually have Matthews season as around 7th. McDavid arguably had the best season and should be number 1, his impact on the oilers can't be understated. I know people are bored of hearing that.

Q. Hughes had a better season, as well as Pasta. Its just facts. Pasta scored more points, led the Bruins to a better record. Panarin probably could be argued as well, the guy was the best player on the best team and way outscored Matthews.

Not sure how a player who had less points than another player and impacted winning less can be considered better. Matthews is super likable though so I kind of get it, but still.

 

[Fantomas]

I actually have Matthews season as around 7th. McDavid arguably had the best season and should be number 1, his impact on the oilers can't be understated. I know people are bored of hearing that.

Q. Hughes had a better season, as well as Pasta. Its just facts. Pasta scored more points, led the Bruins to a better record. Panarin probably could be argued as well, the guy was the best player on the best team and way outscored Matthews.

Not sure how a player who had less points than another player and impacted winning less can be considered better. Matthews is super likable though so I kind of get it, but still.

Points is an overrated stat. I don't want to get into the weeds on this, as I've done that before. It gets boring.

There's a reason no one's done what Matthews has done since the mid-90s. It's harder to get goals than assists.

You and some other posters here refer to points and saying it's facts. But points is a metric, a very subjective one. You're entited to your opinion of course, but I find it a bit shallow.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Points is an overrated stat. I don't want to get into the weeds on this, as I've done that before. It gets boring.

Okay....

There's a reason no one's done what Matthews has done since the mid-90s. It's harder to get goals than assists.

Well thats just like, your opinion man.

You and some other posters here refer to points and saying it's facts. But points is a metric, a very subjective one. You're entited to your opinion of course, but I find it a bit shallow.

Points is a metric, and about the most objective one we have to measure offensive output. My brain hurt reading that from you.

 

[Fantomas]

Points is a metric, and about the most objective one we have to measure offensive output. My brain hurt reading that from you.

There's nothing objective about giving an equal vaue to a goal and an assist (whether primary or secondary). It's competely subjective and furthermore simplistic. Points is a simple, basic metric, but not something to cite in a serious anaysis.

A guy who scores 60 goals and 30 assists is a much better offensive contributor than a guy who gets 30 goals and 60 assists. Don't believe me? Go back in history and count the number of guys who've gotten 60 goals and those who've gotten 60 assists. You'll see much more of column B than column A.

This year McDavid hasn't been scoring goals at a very high rate, likely because he's hurt. He still great but is a significantly worse player than he is when he's at his best. When healthy he can score 60+. It's an important factor in assessing his value.

 

[Sky04]

Pity nod for Matthews it should've been McDavid, significantly better player this year.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Pity nod for Matthews it should've been McDavid, significantly better player this year.

He is the best player.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

There's nothing objective about giving an equal vaue to a goal and an assist (whether primary or secondary). It's competely subjective and furthermore simplistic. Points is a simple, basic metric, but not something to cite in a serious anaysis.

I don't know what you are trying to say here. But you seem to agree that points is a simple, basic metric. If only you could see that the 'value' part is what is subjective.

A guy who scores 60 goals and 30 assists is a much better offensive contributor than a guy who gets 30 goals and 60 assists. Don't believe me? Go back in history and count the number of guys who've gotten 60 goals and those who've gotten 60 assists. You'll see much more of column B than column A.

What logic is this? Placing value on something just because it occurs less often? Come back to reality.

This year McDavid hasn't been scoring goals at a very high rate, likely because he's hurt. He still great but is a significantly worse player than he is when he's at his best. When healthy he can score 60+. It's an important factor in assessing his value.

I think it is more likely that he wants to figure out how to involve his teammates more, and contribute the most impact he can on winning games. Seems to be working as the Oilers are a much more dangerous team this year.

 

[Fantomas]

What logic is this? Placing value on something just because it occurs less often? Come back to reality.

Uh, you might want to think on this one a little bit more. When scoring 60 goals is so much rarer than accumulating 60 assists, then this says a great deal of how much harder it is to score goals. How many assists are amassed per goal? You can ballpark it, right? It's not a 1:1 ratio.

I think it is more likely that he wants to figure out how to involve his teammates more, and contribute the most impact he can on winning games. Seems to be working as the Oilers are a much more dangerous team this year.

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[pcruz]

Matthews did not play zero games on the same line as Nylander. That’s blatantly false.

That’s also 55 more games than Kucherov or Pastrnak got to play with an offensive player like that.

Then there’s this whole PP thing where they all play together.

The linemate comparisons are not even close and certainly not in Matthews favour

I guess:

Thanks for confirming something we all already knew.


Leafs haters watch every game intently.


I have never been so emotionally invested in hating something or someone that I watch them intently.

But you obviously watch every game.

It's really cute for now, but some day, you will realize you were a fan all along.

 

[JoVel]

I guess:

Thanks for confirming something we all already knew.


Leafs haters watch every game intently.

You do realize this is something you can look up in like 2 minutes and you don't need to watch every game for it?

 

[Atomos2]

69 goal scorer with Selke level defence. That’s a f***ing phenomenal season.

I remember when some fans (not naming any names but they’ve been very vocal in this thread) argued Larkin > Nylander because of his defence. Funny how narratives turn on a dime.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Uh, you might want to think on this one a little bit more. When scoring 60 goals is so much rarer than accumulating 60 assists, then this says a great deal of how much harder it is to score goals. How many assists are amassed per goal? You can ballpark it, right? It's not a 1:1 ratio.

How about you watch games and see how the goal was scored and then see if the playmaker or shot taker exerted more skill or effort? Or would that be too nuanced for you?

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh the irony. You know, Hyman actually played on the top lines and spent significant time with Matthews. Shame Matthews couldn’t just flip that switch and turn him into a 50 goal scorer like McDavid did, since it’s so easy to set up people for goals.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

69 goal scorer with Selke level defence. That’s a f***ing phenomenal season.

You’d think one would have to actually win a Selke before getting this credit, but nah.

Do people know what Selke level defense means? Cause the way you and some posters talk you make it seem like he is on the 1st PK unit and doing the defenseman’s job out there.

 

[DFC]

There's nothing objective about giving an equal vaue to a goal and an assist (whether primary or secondary). It's competely subjective and furthermore simplistic. Points is a simple, basic metric, but not something to cite in a serious anaysis.

A guy who scores 60 goals and 30 assists is a much better offensive contributor than a guy who gets 30 goals and 60 assists. Don't believe me? Go back in history and count the number of guys who've gotten 60 goals and those who've gotten 60 assists. You'll see much more of column B than column A.

This year McDavid hasn't been scoring goals at a very high rate, likely because he's hurt. He still great but is a significantly worse player than he is when he's at his best. When healthy he can score 60+. It's an important factor in assessing his value.

Ok but now go back in history and count the guys who've gotten 100 assists.

 

[Atomos2]

You’d think one would have to actually win a Selke before getting this credit, but nah.

Do people know what Selke level defense means? Cause the way you and some posters talk you make it seem like he is on the 1st PK unit and doing the defenseman’s job out there.

Ummm Selke calibre defence means SELKE calibre defence. I don’t know how to make that more clearer for you. The guy is literally a top 3 Selke finalist over everyone in the NHL. What do you think that means?

 

[nbwingsfan]

I guess:

Thanks for confirming something we all already knew.


Leafs haters watch every game intently.


I have never been so emotionally invested in hating something or someone that I watch them intently.

But you obviously watch every game.

It's really cute for now, but some day, you will realize you were a fan all along.

The Leaf’s are shoved down our throats by the Canadian media we have no choice but to watch them.
I also know he played with Nylander just by a 2 second search


Hilarious you have to blatantly lie about who he plays with to try and justify ridiculous comments

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Points is an overrated stat. I don't want to get into the weeds on this, as I've done that before. It gets boring.

There's a reason no one's done what Matthews has done since the mid-90s. It's harder to get goals than assists.

You and some other posters here refer to points and saying it's facts. But points is a metric, a very subjective one. You're entited to your opinion of course, but I find it a bit shallow.

More players have done what Matthews did in the history of the NHL than what Kucherov/McDavid did.

If it's so much easier to get that many assists, then why is it a more exclusive club than Matthews scoring 69 goals?

 

[Leafsfanperson]

Huh? Matthews plays in the wrong market to get recognized? Are you being sarcastic?

Kucherov and Mak never get criticize because people only pay attention to them in highlights. They don't live under a microscope. If they played in Canada people would call them overrated.

 

[12ozPapa]

Kucherov and Mak never get criticize because people only pay attention to them in highlights. They don't live under a microscope. If they played in Canada people would call them overrated.

I need a beer.

 

[Leafsfanperson]

I need a beer.

Go ahead and cope

 

[Leaf Fans]

Ummm Selke calibre defence means SELKE calibre defence. I don’t know how to make that more clearer for you. The guy is literally a top 3 Selke finalist over everyone in the NHL. What do you think that means?

Some people think that the voters were corrupt for that award as some of the voters are from Toronto based outlets, but they are completely fair for the other awards. Depending on who is on the all star teams they might be corrupted again like when Marner was selected the last couple of years. The other selections will be fine though.