2023-24 Frank J. Selke Trophy finalists: Aleksander Barkov, Auston Matthews, Jordan Staal

[Martin Skoula]

I know people will and are bitching about it but I don’t think players should be penalized for not being used as a go to PKer in terms of being in contention for the Selke. There is a lot that goes into than coaching decision

You’d think Staal playing 15 minutes all situations TOI would be a bigger issue.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

oh so any votes Matthews gets is just the Toronto media?

and their influence. Yes Ofcourse. By what metric should he here? Matthews of the Columbus blue jackets doesn’t sniff this

 

[McDonald19]

Staal was -14 with only 30 points on an elite team. What am I missing here?

 

[Regal]

I know people will and are bitching about it but I don’t think players should be penalized for not being used as a go to PKer in terms of being in contention for the Selke. There is a lot that goes into than coaching decision

I don’t think it should be used as a barometer for defensive ability, but awards should be based on what happened not what players are capable of. Great PK forwards like Barkov are bringing extra defensive value to the team in that regard. I don’t think Matthews should be out of the running for not doing the same, but I would say he’d have to be an equivalent amount better 5v5 in order to make up for it.

 

[Old Boys Club]

Selke is mostly reputation... It's why Barkov still gets talked about like he is the next Bergeron.

Matthews is great defensively, no clue if he is top 3, but he is one of the top 3 for how they vote "most points and is also good at defensively".

This Norris has more credibility than this award and that is saying something.

It's weird to still be bitter about Matthews beating McDavid (deservedly so) one year for the Hart though.

Equally reputation driven and narrative driven, I'd argue.

I'm not talking about 2022, I'm talking about this year where Toronto media were saying things like 'If he hits 70 you have to give him the Hart'. They started the narrative very early, but it didn't pick up steam and ultimately Matthews fell short of 70 and the point leaders developed a substantial gap over him. Why should 70 goals guarantee him the Hart, when players like MacK, Kuch, McDavid are obviously more valuable to their given teams?

 

[notbias]

Equally reputation driven and narrative driven, I'd argue.

I'm not talking about 2022, I'm talking about this year where Toronto media were saying things like 'If he hits 70 you have to give him the Hart'. They started the narrative very early, but it didn't pick up steam and ultimately Matthews fell short of 70 and the point leaders developed a substantial gap over him. Why should 70 goals guarantee him the Hart, when players like MacK, Kuch, McDavid are obviously more valuable to their given teams?

I mean Kuch > Mac > McDavid > Matthews this year, no argument.

I saw one show all season where anything close was said like that, but most shows I saw said it was Kuch or Mac, and some said McDavid even though it clearly wasn't him, which I think was also pandering to the Edmonton crowd because there is no realistic argument where it isn't Kuch/Mac.

I think they generally just pander to the Canadian market...

 

[Arthur Morgan]

and their influence. Yes Ofcourse. By what metric should he here? Matthews of the Columbus blue jackets doesn’t sniff this

not sure who Matthews of the Columbus Blue Jackets is sorry
but Barkov on Columbus wouldn't win either so I dunno what ur really trying to say here.

people also tried to say Matthews winning the Hart was only because of the media as well but then he wins the Lindsay making those comments mean pretty much nothing

 

[Regal]

Staal was -14 with only 30 points on an elite team. What am I missing here?

Staal’s possession numbers were some of the best in the league and he had the best xGA/60 5v5 among both forwards and defensemen. He was on for a lot more goals against than expected though because of an .882 on-ice SV%. So I guess it depends on whether he was just unlucky or his expected numbers aren’t painting an accurate picture. I still thought he looked good this year, though Canes fans are suggesting a couple guys on the team have passed him. He probably deserved it more a couple years ago

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

I don’t think it should be used as a barometer for defensive ability, but awards should be based on what happened not what players are capable of. Great PK forwards like Barkov are bringing extra defensive value to the team in that regard. I don’t think Matthews should be out of the running for not doing the same, but I would say he’d have to be an equivalent amount better 5v5 in order to make up for it.

thank god somebody finally said it. You should actually have to execute to win the award not just be capable

 

[dalewood12]

Jordan Staal was a finalist for the Selke in 2009. Is the 15 year gap the longest ever for a Selke finalist? Regardless, very impressive.

 

[olli]

The leaf hate on this site is insane. Not a leafs fan but watch Matthews play and if your into advanced stats take a look at his.

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

not sure who Matthews of the Columbus Blue Jackets is sorry
but Barkov on Columbus wouldn't win either so I dunno what ur really trying to say here.

people also tried to say Matthews winning the Hart was only because of the media as well but then he wins the Lindsay making those comments mean pretty much nothing

not sure why you’re being intentionally obtuse(maybe trying to be funny?) but I don’t disagree. It would be harder for even Barkov but the degree at which it’s helping matthews is hardly comparable.

Matthews deserved his hart and Lindsay and is a pretty good two way forward but what makes him a selke candidate? The only part of my post you didn’t respond to.

I mean there’s some serious credibility issues here. I watched selke finalist Marner get blown the f*** up last night. That one was even more of a joke. Atleast matthews is solid

 

[Dazed and Confused]

When was the last time a team had two different Selke nominees in back-to-back years? Dats and Zetterberg?


Having two elite defensive performers in Matthews and Marner, you'd think the Leafs would do better than... 19th in GA.

 

[Regal]

You’d think Staal playing 15 minutes all situations TOI would be a bigger issue.

Why would all situations matter? Defense on the PP is basically non-existent.

Staal averaged 15:15 of ES+PK time, Barkov 16:07 and Matthews 17:34. But Staal’s portion of ES time that was in defensive situations would be higher. According to PuckiQ, he played 45.2% of his ES minutes against elite competition while Barkov was at 42.5, and Matthews at 39.8

 

[JackSlater]

The Selke is in a pretty bad spot, as various voters openly admit to considering criteria that is by definition irrelevant to the award. Best not to care that much I guess, but I don't have faith in random media members to judge defensive play, better yet when they admit that they consider offence.

 

[SomeDude]

Someone with more free time than me needs to comb through posts histories to see how many people saying Matthews doesn’t have to PK to win a Selke also said Crosby can’t possibly be good defensively because he doesn’t PK.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Jordan Staal was a finalist for the Selke in 2009. Is the 15 year gap the longest ever for a Selke finalist? Regardless, very impressive.

Yes, it's easily the record. Nobody else is even close.

Longest gaps between years as a Selke trophy finalist

• 14 years - Jordan Staal (2010 - 2024)
• 6 years - Dave Poulin (1987 - 1993)
• 6 years - Steve Kasper (1982 - 1988)

(EDIT - I incorrectly showed Mikko Koivu as having an 8 year gap. He was only a Selke finalist once, and finished 4th in 2009).

 

[dabeechman]

Staal was a -14 on the 4th best defensive team this year with 30 points? Ok...

Comparing to an ex-selke winner in Kopitar, they aren't even close to comparable this season.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I know Hfboards isn’t going to be happy about a 69 goal scorer being a Selke finalist but they don’t watch him play

He doesn't look that good to me.

I only watch the leafs regularly in the playoffs, so admittedly my sample size is small... but I guess that's the problem isn't it.

 

[Seattle King]

Matthews and Staal have no business being finalists here. Congrats on your trophy, Alexander.
Its like because Bergeron retired the Selke committee has taken the year off.
Kopitar is still in the league, dummies.

 

[Regal]

One thing that’s interesting with the Selke though is that it doesn’t seem like games played really matters all that much like it does with other awards as long as you play roughly 60 games or more. It’s funny because I feel like even with the Norris, an 8 game gap like with Barkov and Matthews would be brought up more

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I know it's not how the trophy is awarded but PK time should be a factor. And I'm not just saying this because of Matthews.

It's supposed to be for the player who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game, not another offensive award. It's stupid that scoring a bunch of points is required to have a chance at winning the award but playing on the PK is not.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Staal was -14 with only 30 points on an elite team. What am I missing here?

I think it was a lifetime achievement nomination of sorts. He's been very deserving of a selke nomination or a win for many years in the true sense of the award.

 

[dabeechman]

The Selke is in a pretty bad spot, as various voters openly admit to considering criteria that is by definition irrelevant to the award. Best not to care that much I guess, but I don't have faith in random media members to judge defensive play, better yet when they admit that they consider offence.

Been like this for years with the Norris. It isn't about the best defensive player, it's about the best offensive player that happens to be on the blueline.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Matthews and Staal have no business being finalists here. Congrats on your trophy, Alexander.
Its like because Bergeron retired the Selke committee has taken the year off.
Kopitar is still in the league, dummies.

voters can't stay up this late