2023-24 Calder Memorial Trophy finalists: Connor Bedard, Brock Faber, Luke Hughes

[Obvious Fabertism]

Alex Vlasic played 21+ per night and finished with a -4 rating.
On a team that was -111.

Lol +/- rating amirite?

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Lol +/- rating amirite?

I'm not against using it.
Vlasic's +/- is pretty incredible considering the team he was on. Totally unexpected.

Bedard's is bad, as expected.

 

[Section88]

If Vlasic is that good, then I guess Bedard wasn't playing with "nobody".

Fair enough, he had 1 stud defensemen on the team instead of 0.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Kaprizov, Boldy, Brodin were all injured too for significant stretches of the season. And by nature of being an all situations defender getting 25 minutes a night, Faber spent a whole lot of his ice time with the Wild’s 3rd and 4th lines, Lucchini, Lettieri, Shaw (after 4 ACL tears,) Gaudreau (playing with torn abs since game 3) and the assorted AHL injury call ups were all as bad or worse than anyone on Chicagos roster this season.

We have seen how Faber looks with good players, we have seen how he looks with players worse than any of Bedards teammates. It does not change his individual proficiency just like playing with better players doesn’t change how good Bedard plays individually. It only affects counting stats, and that’s not the criteria for this award even if it’s often how it shakes out.

Kaprizov, and Boldy missed all of 7 games. lol


5 on 5
Faber spent
560mins with Brodin
527mins with Kap
484mins with Ek
480mins with Boldy

Faber spent
105mins with Lucchini
139mins with Lettieri
51min with Shaw
220mins with Gaudreau (who I promise isn't worse than half of Chicagos roster)

LOL

Meanwhile

5 on 5
Bedard spent
377mins with Foligno (healthy scratch for a playoff team last year)
764mins with Kurashev (career high of 25pts)
220mins with Donato

We have seen what Bedard looks like with terrible players, we haven't seen what he would look like with actual top 6 talent by his side. It absolutely would change how the player plays, if you play with good players, you'll get more chances to score, meaning you'll have less scoring chances against. Counting stats are the main thing people look at when determining the Calder. Imagine thinking otherwise lol

 

[luiginb]

Brock Faber looked like a number one defenseman coming from nowhere. He'd get my vote. Bedard missed time and he's done about as well as expected.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I'm starting to think his defensive woes are being overblown that team is horrible defense wise with or without CB98 I saw him get out of position because he was trying to much and puck chased because everyone would get out of position and never really marked anybody it was a free for all in their own zone they need to slow it down and play better zone defense and stay in position not puck chase. Defensemen need to know when to release from their target and let the teammate pick it up when it gets to their area to defend.

Honestly, I wish that were true. But he was just really really bad defensively. Some of it is due to him cheating for offense because the Hawks rely on him so much to score. On a better team, he wouldn't feel the need to cheat for offense so much because there would be other lines that can score (which ironically might lead to a drop in his production, likely offset by the benefits of playing with better players). His scoring pace was obviously impressive, but I think a lot of his offense came at the cost of his defense.

On a better team, he'd probably have been moved over to the wing until he's ready to be a full time C (like the Hawks did with him at the end of the season). He's an 18 year old kid, it's extraordinarily rare for them to be even average defensively. Add in the fact that he's a smaller guy, and isn't the fastest skater, and it's completely unsurprising that he struggled so much.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

Kaprizov, and Boldy missed all of 7 games. lol


5 on 5
Faber spent
560mins with Brodin
527mins with Kap
484mins with Ek
480mins with Boldy

Faber spent
105mins with Lucchini
139mins with Lettieri
51min with Shaw
220mins with Gaudreau (who I promise isn't worse than half of Chicagos roster)

LOL

Meanwhile

5 on 5
Bedard spent
377mins with Foligno (healthy scratch for a playoff team last year)
764mins with Kurashev (career high of 25pts)
220mins with Donato

We have seen what Bedard looks like with terrible players, we haven't seen what he would look like with actual top 6 talent by his side. It absolutely would change how the player plays, if you play with good players, you'll get more chances to score, meaning you'll have less scoring chances against. Counting stats are the main thing people look at when determining the Calder. Imagine thinking otherwise lol

They missed 7 games outright, but neither was playing healthy or at the level of play that is implied by their presence for long stretches of the season. Post all star break they were absolutely great players, prior to that though they were not breaking even at all.

Freddy Gaudreau played with torn abdominals this season and was absolutely useless, just a complete black hole and it shows up in models where he is right down there with the worst of the Blackhawks. He can probably rebound but last year truly was not even AHL caliber and his freshly signed NMC and mass injuries are the only things that saved him.

Counting stats do seem to be part of the criteria, but how much they are weighted is entirely up to individual voters. Discounting points from Faber and adding to Bedard due to teammate quality would get incredibly complex to the point of futility very quickly if you wanted to be serious about it, and end of the day both players were on teams below playoff caliber, both played with awful players, both played with average NHL players.

Faber played half a season with two elite forwards on his team, and he played very well with them, his chemistry with Kaprizov was particularly apparent. I think that adds to his case for the Calder in his ability to play well with both talented players and weaker teammates.

Connor Bedard didn’t get the opportunity to display his proficiency with elite players, that is a shame, but it comes with its own perks as he got to be The guy for Chicago where all plays flowed through him and he got the puck more often than he would have if he were playing with more elite players. Maybe he gets more points, maybe he doesn’t, on a playoff team those games where he was -2 in the first period may have ended up in benchings. You can only speak to what did happen in regards to this award.

 

[Raistlin]

For the sake of the league's reputation. They should award Bedard the Calder even if there is an argument for both. Bedard is going to be a face for the league, like Kane, the argument between the two is not that far apart, whereas Faber will be a very good two way D, his allure of his game is in a lot of the intangibles.

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

Connor Bedard is going to win. He has to. Although the Calder is tainted because McDavid didn't win it, so who knows how voting will go. If anyone else other than Bedard wins it, its just as much as a sham as McDavids year.

McDavid was out for half the season and finished fourth in rookie scoring, it absolutely wasn’t an unfair loss.

 

[Hextallent63]

No one cares about +/-, especially when you play on one of the worst teams of the cap era.

You left out Bedard played 14 less games.


Yeah, one of the guys also got to play with Kaprizov, Eriksson Ek, Boldy, while the other played with a guy with a career high of 25pts, and another guy who was healthy scratched in the playoffs last year.

Sorry I left out games played but I was aware. I'm not taking sides it's not like bedard against Faber, in my mind I just think they both had equally good seasons.

 

[Guttersniped]

Or, i don’t know, they watched him play? You can even take your pick and look at any gdt on the devils board the second half of the season, they were all over how bad he was defensively.

It struck me as odd that a Rangers fan would pour over Devils’ board GDTs, but then I remembered all-consuming obsessions with rival teams, and then it still struck me as odd.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

It struck me as odd that a Rangers fan would pour over Devils’ board GDTs, but then I remembered all-consuming obsessions with rival teams, and then it still struck me as odd.

You really learn about how fan bases think of their own players without bias reading them, and they sure laid into him most of the time.

You should try it sometime to educate yourself on other players.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Little brother syndrome, it’s so sad.

You’re the little brother in this scenario lol

 

[TheNumber4]

Just give it to a 26 year old Russian again.

 

[Al Lagoon]

This thread provides ample evidence why Bedard will win.

•preseason favorite x1000
•people vote the obvious choice, i.e. hockey writers, and here, fans.
•who has actually watched enough of the finalists to have an educated vote?

Had Bedard not had his chops busted, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

That said, what Faber did as a rookie d'man was amazing.

 

[wetcoast]

It's a fact. Remember when McDavid didn't win the Calder despite being the best hockey player since Mario Lemieux? If you can't play the full season, you're not the best rookie. Faber not only did that, he excelled. I think lots of hockey writers will vote Faber assuming Bedard will win, because they know he's the more deserving candidate this season. Nothing against Bedard, he'll likely make an All-Star team or two.

Using the McDavid situation is faulty for 2 big reasons.

1. mcDavid missed a lot more time.

2. McDavid was a lot further behind in points that year than Bedard was ......wait in fact Bedard led all rookies in scoring so it's like comparing lines and lemons both are citrus fruit but quite different.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Just give it to a 26 year old Russian again.

Minny fans keep telling us that age doesn't factor in.

 

[MuckOG]

Minny fans keep telling us that age doesn't factor in.

It never has.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

It never has.

Actually, it has.....

 

[AslanRH]

I'd vote Faber, but think it will go to Bedard.
Long term, Bedard will most likely be the superior player, but this year to me Faber had the better season.
(I hate saying nice things about a wildling)

 

[ManofSteel55]

Should be Faber. Will be Bedard. It won't be completely out of line if Bedard wins, but Faber had a better season overall, in my opinion.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Using the McDavid situation is faulty for 2 big reasons.

1. mcDavid missed a lot more time.

2. McDavid was a lot further behind in points that year than Bedard was ......wait in fact Bedard led all rookies in scoring so it's like comparing lines and lemons both are citrus fruit but quite different.

Fair enough, but relying on points alone is also faulty. It's about the "most proficient" player. Again, I think most people expect Bedard to win, but there will certainly be voters who read the criteria, note the missed time and other defects in Bedard's game, and vote Faber.

 

[MuckOG]

Actually, it has.....

Did it matter when Kaprizov and Panarin won? Makar was older than Hughes and had fewer points...did it matter then?

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Did it matter when Kaprizov and Panarin won? Makar was older than Hughes and had fewer points...did it matter then?

Considering they actually had to put an age limit on it, I'd say age has factored in.
It plays a roll, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Minny fans keep telling us that age doesn't factor in.

Correct ages might.