2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Spektre]

He didn’t. Gave him a c.

My bad. The grades are below the player article. C is still too high

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I was already rooting for Toronto to beat Boston in the first round but now I’ll be cheering for the Leafs even harder. Because getting Montgomery back would be fantastic.

I have a rooting interest in the Maple Leafs and Islanders purely based on the hope that either of their coaches will be available to the Blues in the the offseason.

But drinking in the sweet tears of brokenhearted Leafs fans is one of the highlights of the playoffs!

I truly am conflicted.

 

[PocketNines]

Brind'Amour would be amazing but from my Canes friend they all feel he is in an "extend-or-retire" place with that franchise. Deep community stuff etc.

 

[Xerloris]

I have a rooting interest in the Maple Leafs and Islanders purely based on the hope that either of their coaches will be available to the Blues in the the offseason.



I truly am conflicted.

Wait are you saying you're interested in the Leafs coach?

 

[PocketNines]

When her parents arrive today I am providing crusty dinner rolls, crab corn chowder with homemade crab stock and a dutch oven berry grunt with vanilla ice cream. And then I am going to bring up the New Year's Eve game at Wrigley Field to these sports-loving folk of Highland Park, because they are exactly the kind of people who get the awesome seats for stuff like that. In fact when we were just beginning to date they had box seats and a rooting interest for Game 6 in the 2016 series and for the 48 hours before we won Game 7 that made me wonder whether I could even do this relationship. But, it turns out that was the last playoff game the Hawks won and hopefully ever will win. And the relationship is good. Thank you Troy Brouwer. Horrible trade. But thank you anyway Troy, I do sincerely appreciate it.

 

[Blueston]

Wait are you saying you're interested in the Leafs coach?

He wants leafs to win so Boston coach may be available. That is how I read it.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Wait are you saying you're interested in the Leafs coach?

No. I want Bruins to get bounced in Rd.1 to provide the Blues the best, though slight, chance to bring back Monty.

 

[BlueDream]

My bad. The grades are below the player article. C is still too high

Well he finished 4th on the team in points. So a C isn’t too high.

You clearly have something against him because your original comment that he never gets criticized is just wrong.

Schenn is still a fine player. All we found out is that we really can’t keep him at center anymore. He kinda had to play there because we don’t have many options, but once we moved him back to the wing he showed that he’s not a problem at all.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I agree that Schenn at a C grade is fine. I'd put him at a D at center and a B- on the Wing. Blues just need to keep him on the wing. And we should be fine for a couple more years.

 

[mk80]

I was already rooting for Toronto to beat Boston in the first round but now I’ll be cheering for the Leafs even harder. Because getting Montgomery back would be fantastic.

I don't think they'd fire Montgomery though....

although even after typing that NHL coaching jobs are overturning at much higher rate than ever so i guess it's possible

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I don't think they'd fire Montgomery though....

although even after typing that NHL coaching jobs are overturning at much higher rate than ever so i guess it's possible

Likely not but there were rumblings that he was on the hot seat a month or two ago. It's wishful thinking.

 

[Spektre]

Well he finished 4th on the team in points. So a C isn’t too high.

You clearly have something against him because your original comment that he never gets criticized is just wrong.

Schenn is still a fine player. All we found out is that we really can’t keep him at center anymore. He kinda had to play there because we don’t have many options, but once we moved him back to the wing he showed that he’s not a problem at all.

I don’t have anything personal against Schenn or any other NHL player. My criticism of him is objective. It’s okay if you disagree.

If you want to do a comparison, I will state every negative fact about his season, and you can do the exact opposite. I am more than confident a grade of C for average is above what he was truly worth.

 

[stl76]

I'm willing to grade Schenn on a curve given it was his first year as captain with all the extra internal and external pressure that brings. C feels about right IMO.

 

[PocketNines]

I am so impressed at how owners who just saw an across the board quintupling of franchise values in the last few years are now one missed playoff season away from poverty and relocation out of STL, which the NHL would allow.

It's incredible critical thinking, great job

 

[BrokenFace]

I am so impressed at how owners who just saw an across the board quintupling of franchise values in the last few years are now one missed playoff season away from poverty and relocation out of STL, which the NHL would allow.

It's incredible critical thinking, great job

Owners/teams are always quick to cry poor. The Blues survived the years after the lockout, which included a cancelled season, no exciting prospects for a time, and owners who were getting rid of any big contracts to make the team easier to sell. They also had a local NFL team to compete with, even if it was a crappy one. I'm not saying they should bottom out, but I believe the Blues would easily survive 4 years of being a bottom 5 team and I am very skeptical of any executive who suggests they wouldn't.

 

[Celtic Note]

I made a post about the Blues financials in the Army Conference thread, but maybe these Forbs breakdowns belong here. They have a pretty interesting breakdown and historical numbers.

St Louis Blues on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List

St Louis Blues #22 on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List

www.forbes.com

 

[bleedblue1223]

Friedman reporting that Army wants to talk with David Carle for HC. That excites me.

 

[mk80]

Friedman reporting that Army wants to talk with David Carle for HC. That excites me.

That would be a great hire, and I think he'll be a good NHL when he does make the jump.

Here's his quote when he was asked after the Frozen Four about his NHL coaching plans

 

[STL fan in MN]

That would be a great hire, and I think he'll be a good NHL when he does make the jump.

Here's his quote when he was asked after the Frozen Four about his NHL coaching plans

This is very smart of him to set parameters like that. Like, he’s not being greedy but putting out there that he values stability for his young family and he’s absolutely right that college coaches don’t get fired much. I mean, why would Denver ever move on from him?

I’m sure he gets paid a fraction there of what an NHL head coach makes but I bet it’s still good money and 1000% more stable and less stressful. NHL coaches don’t last long as the message seems to get stale after a few years. That doesn’t happen in college hockey as the players are there a max of 4 years so even if the message stays the same, it’s new ears hearing it. It’s new to them!

 

[Brian39]

This is very smart of him to set parameters like that. Like, he’s not being greedy but putting out there that he values stability for his young family and he’s absolutely right that college coaches don’t get fired much. I mean, why would Denver ever move on from him?

I’m sure he gets paid a fraction there of what an NHL head coach makes but I bet it’s still good money and 1000% more stable and less stressful. NHL coaches don’t last long as the message seems to get stale after a few years. That doesn’t happen in college hockey as the players are there a max of 4 years so even if the message stays the same, it’s new ears hearing it. It’s new to them!

Carle makes about $400k per year.

The cheapest published NHL head coaching salary is $1.5M, but I'd wager that there are a handful of guys making less. I'd wager that his comment about the offer having to be 'a lot of money' is to weed out teams looking to make him the lowest paid coach in the league vs an expectation that he get paid the $3M+ that a veteran would make.

Colorado is a wonderful place to live. Stability is important. Avoiding a dumpster-fire situation that sets him up for failure is important. But from a financial standpoint, I'd wager that a team offering him a contract paying him 4 times his current compensation would probably be sufficient to tick that box.

 

[Xerloris]

Carle makes about $400k per year.

The cheapest published NHL head coaching salary is $1.5M, but I'd wager that there are a handful of guys making less. I'd wager that his comment about the offer having to be 'a lot of money' is to weed out teams looking to make him the lowest paid coach in the league vs an expectation that he get paid the $3M+ that a veteran would make.

Colorado is a wonderful place to live. Stability is important. Avoiding a dumpster-fire situation that sets him up for failure is important. But from a financial standpoint, I'd wager that a team offering him a contract paying him 4 times his current compensation would probably be sufficient to tick that box.

I ask you because you seem to have a more general knowledge of business/contracts. Do you think the Blues would and could shell out 2 mill/yr for Carle?

 

[Brian39]

I ask you because you seem to have a more general knowledge of business/contracts. Do you think the Blues would and could shell out 2 mill/yr for Carle?

Could?

Absolutely. We gave Berube $3M x 2 years after the Cup and then extended him at $3.5M x 3 years in 2022. Bannister absolutely got a raise when he got called up as interim coach, so I'd be stunned if we paid less than $4M a year on the head coaching position this past year. Assuming Berube gets hired this summer (which he absolutely should), then we for sure have the budget to pay a coach $2M a year.

We also have a projected player payroll that is currently about $17M less than this past season. Even if we make acquisitions, the total player budget will for sure be less.

Would?

No clue without knowing how much confidence they have in him to be a good NHL coach in his first job. I have no idea what the organization's philosophy would be about luring a rookie NHL coach in with money.

 

[mk80]

For a guy like him who’s set up very well in his current situation at Denver and he will likely receive a raise when his current contract is up there. Some cautionary tales do exist:

David Quinn who was in a good spot at BU, not as much to the degree I think Carle is but still in a stable position. He made the NHL jump and the Sharks have now fired him today which is the 2nd NHL job he’s been fired from in 5 years as a NHL coach.

Dave Hakstol was at North Dakota 15 years (counting his time as an assistant) and is now in his 3rd NHL coaching stop, Philly, Toronto assistant, Seattle.

Jim Montgomery (who Carle was an assistant coach under) is also now in his 3rd NHL stop since making the jump in 2018, although a little different given his role in his departure from Dallas.

With the rate of coach firings only climbing hire in the NHL, if Carle does value stability with a young family as he says, it’s not hard to see why he would only go for the right situation and dollar value, despite even the minimum NHL contract at least doubling his salary as @Brian39 demonstrated above. Also I don’t see him leaving DU this summer given his recent announcement as the 2025 US World Junior Head Coach will likely only raise his NHL stock David Carle Named Head Coach of 2025 USA World Junior Team - University of Denver Athletics

I’ll reiterate after all this, I’d love the Blues to be the team to be his first NHL job. I think he’d be perfect for our young core especially when our prospects start filtering in more. But I don’t think his timeline for the NHL jump will match our job opening now.

 

[Celtic Note]

For a guy like him who’s set up very well in his current situation at Denver and he will likely receive a raise when his current contract is up there. Some cautionary tales do exist:

David Quinn who was in a good spot at BU, not as much to the degree I think Carle is but still in a stable position. He made the NHL jump and the Sharks have now fired him today which is the 2nd NHL job he’s been fired from in 5 years as a NHL coach.

Dave Hakstol was at North Dakota 15 years (counting his time as an assistant) and is now in his 3rd NHL coaching stop, Philly, Toronto assistant, Seattle.

Jim Montgomery (who Carle was an assistant coach under) is also now in his 3rd NHL stop since making the jump in 2018, although a little different given his role in his departure from Dallas.

With the rate of coach firings only climbing hire in the NHL, if Carle does value stability with a young family as he says, it’s not hard to see why he would only go for the right situation and dollar value, despite even the minimum NHL contract at least doubling his salary as @Brian39 demonstrated above. Also I don’t see him leaving DU this summer given his recent announcement as the 2025 US World Junior Head Coach will likely only raise his NHL stock David Carle Named Head Coach of 2025 USA World Junior Team - University of Denver Athletics

There is physical stability and financial stability. He may very well have both, but two years making $2M for example =$4M. He would have to work 10 years @400k to make the same.

If invested wisely, they could live off the interest generated from that $4M with an upper middle class income just for working 2 years in an unstable job.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think we'd have to offer a pretty unique deal for him to come here, something that sort of guarantees that he won't be fired quickly. His stock seems high enough that he should be able to more or less pick a job when he decides he's ready. I think the thing that excites me about Friedman saying we want to talk to him, Army's focus is on the future, it's not about simply finding a guy with NHL experience, that Andy Murray stop gap type. And one of the issues with Berube and Army that was discussed in the past was being able to connect with the younger players. Carle as someone high on our list would indicate to me that the goal would be someone that can fit with the young core and build with them.

And also related to the tanking portion in the other thread, if there is a chance Carle is considering NHL jobs, the fact that were aren't tanking as a strategy and Army has long-term stability, probably helps give Carle some faith that he'd have more of a chance lasting here than say a team like the Sharks. David Quinn might turn out to be a good head coach somewhere else, but there's not a single head coach that was going to last more than he did there. You're just simply set to fail, and tanking is a legitimate excuse to not be fired, even if it's pretty stupid to be fired when the GM is tanking as a strategy.