**2022 TDL Discussion**

[blueadams]

Looks like we're gonna be sellers (Jan 13th). Let's talk..

Preface: A 2nd or a 3rd rd pick acquired in a TDL deal isn't necessarily 'adding yet another 18yr old prospect to the system'. It's adding draft capital to the franchise. It's allowing you to package a mid-1st and a 2nd for a stud you really like in the top-10. It's packaging two 2nd's for a stud who's slipping to the end of the 1st. It's packaging a 2nd a 3rd for a guy you love on the start of day 2. Every bit of capital matters. And I know we're not gonna make 10 TDL moves. But a lot of these guys I'd love to move for some capital.

**Bertuzzi**. I love Bertuzzi. You love Bertuzzi. We all love Bertuzzi. Other GM's love Bertuzzi. He's a FA at the end of next yr. He could realistically demand something like $7M/yr for 8yrs if he hits the open market. His agent will be negotiating from that strength this summer. Larkin's a FA after next season too. Vrana the next yr. Seider and Raymond the next. Is a $56'ish million dollar contract what you want to give Bertuzzi over 7yrs in this rebuild? I don't think he returns as much this summer, as a FA-to-be. Do you think we could get a 1st and a 2nd for him? Would you take that? Me personally.. yes. I don't want to
give him 50+ mil this summer.

**Hronek**: I don't like Hronek. He's an offensive defensemen who can't really handle the puck, who rarely makes exceptional passes, and who actually puts a shot on target about 2 or 3 times a month. He's small and weak in front of our net. He still has too many defensive lapses. I like Lidstrom as our future #3. I don't think Hronek's good enough to be our future #2. I think we could find an equally talented RHD on the FA market on a 1 or 2 yr deal. If you can get a 1st or a 2nd for Hronek.. I'd take it.

**Zadina & Rasmussen**: I've seen enough. I don't think either is a long-term piece for us. I think the best case scenario for either is to eventually become average bottom-six players. I think we'll always be able to cheaply find players who've already reached that point on 1 or 2 yr deals on the FA market. If we can get 2nd or 3rds for either, I'd take it. Maybe they rebound and we could get more next yr. But if they repeat this yr, their value becomes nothing. 2nd or 3rd rd picks on the table this yr.. I take it.

**Suter**: I also don't see him as a long-term piece. I don't think he's exceptionally talented offensively. I don't think he's a plus defensively. He's not a physical presence. He could easily be replaced by an equal player on the FA market on a cheap 1 or 2 yr. No real rush to move him. But if you can get a 2nd for him now.. I'd take it.

**Fabbri**: I feel the same about him as I do Suter. Not exceptionally talented offensively. Not a plus defensively. Not physical. Not a long-term piece for us. Easily and cheaply replaceable on a short FA signing. 2nd rd pick for him now.. I'd take it.

**Leddy**: He's looking like Yzerman's first noteable mistake here. I don't think we'll be able to get a 2nd back for him. But maybe a 3rd, which I'd take. If we want to we can bring him back after the playoffs on a FA deal.

**Namaste**: Not sure what his value is, maybe a 3rd or a 4th? I'd of course take it. If we want him back, we can resign him after the playoffs.

**Veleno**: I actually think he's looked pretty good lately. I think he's got a better chance to be a long-term piece here than Zadina or Ras. But he's still probably best case a 4th line center or winger who really isn't that good defensively (or offensively). Easily replaceable cheaply on a short FA signing. If I can get a 2nd for him, I'd take it.

**Erne**: Not sure what his value is. Maybe a 3rd or a 4th. He'd be very easy to replace with a cheap 1 or 2yr contract on the FA market. I suppose I'd take a 3rd or a 4th for him. Why not.




Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[Pavels Dog]

Thoughts?

My thoughts are those are a lot of "delay the rebuild" type of suggestions.

Yeah, I know. You can theoretically package a couple of 2nd/3rd round picks for a late 1st. And you can theoretically get a good player with a late 1st. A player like.. Hronek. Or Bertuzzi. Or even Zadina/Rasmussen/Fabbri/Veleno.

We already have two 2nd round picks and three 4th round picks, so potential is there to package some for a higher pick. We don't need to sell young players for cheap just to chase the dream of getting a late 1st round pick out of Zadina+Veleno+Fabbri.

 

[blueadams]

My thoughts are those are a lot of "delay the rebuild" type of suggestions.

Yeah, I know. You can theoretically package a couple of 2nd/3rd round picks for a late 1st. And you can theoretically get a good player with a late 1st. A player like.. Hronek. Or Bertuzzi. Or even Zadina/Rasmussen/Fabbri/Veleno.

We already have two 2nd round picks and three 4th round picks, so potential is there to package some for a higher pick. We don't need to sell young players for cheap just to chase the dream of getting a late 1st round pick out of Zadina+Veleno+Fabbri.

Bertuzzi's the only guy mentioned who couldn't easily be replaced by a cheap FA on a 1-2 yr deal.

It's not like we'd be any worse.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Bertuzzi's the only guy mentioned who couldn't easily be replaced by a cheap FA on a 1-2 yr deal.

It's not like we'd be any worse.

A cheap UFA who is 5, 10, 15 years older and has less potential to improve. And there's definitely not a bunch of cheap Filip Hronek's every year in UFA.

 

[Killerjas]

Man, can you be more negative? Is there are player you like on this team?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Looks like we're gonna be sellers (Jan 13th). Let's talk..

Preface: A 2nd or a 3rd rd pick acquired in a TDL deal isn't necessarily 'adding yet another 18yr old prospect to the system'. It's adding draft capital to the franchise. It's allowing you to package a mid-1st and a 2nd for a stud you really like in the top-10. It's packaging two 2nd's for a stud who's slipping to the end of the 1st. It's packaging a 2nd a 3rd for a guy you love on the start of day 2. Every bit of capital matters. And I know we're not gonna make 10 TDL moves. But a lot of these guys I'd love to move for some capital.

**Bertuzzi**. I love Bertuzzi. You love Bertuzzi. We all love Bertuzzi. Other GM's love Bertuzzi. He's a FA at the end of next yr. He could realistically demand something like $7M/yr for 8yrs if he hits the open market. His agent will be negotiating from that strength this summer. Larkin's a FA after next season too. Vrana the next yr. Seider and Raymond the next. Is a $56'ish million dollar contract what you want to give Bertuzzi over 7yrs in this rebuild? It's a real shame Canada's insane with these mandates (even though Bert's already got natural immunity and the vaccines have pretty much been proven to do nothing against transmission), because he'd return a real haul. I don't think he returns as much this summer, as a FA-to-be. Do you think we could get a 1st and a 2nd for him? Would you take that? Me personally.. yes. I don't want to
give him 50+ mil this summer.

**Hronek**: I don't like Hronek. He's an offensive defensemen who can't really handle the puck, who rarely makes exceptional passes, and who actually puts a shot on target about 2 or 3 times a month. He's small and weak in front of our net. He still has too many defensive lapses. I like Lidstrom as our future #3. I don't think Hronek's good enough to be our future #2. I think we could find an equally talented RHD on the FA market on a 1 or 2 yr deal. If you can get a 1st or a 2nd for Hronek.. I'd take it.

**Zadina & Rasmussen**: I've seen enough. I don't think either is a long-term piece for us. I think the best case scenario for either is to eventually become average bottom-six players. I think we'll always be able to cheaply find players who've already reached that point on 1 or 2 yr deals on the FA market. If we can get 2nd or 3rds for either, I'd take it. Maybe they rebound and we could get more next yr. But if they repeat this yr, their value becomes nothing. 2nd or 3rd rd picks on the table this yr.. I take it.

**Suter**: I also don't see him as a long-term piece. I don't think he's exceptionally talented offensively. I don't think he's a plus defensively. He's not a physical presence. He could easily be replaced by an equal player on the FA market on a cheap 1 or 2 yr. No real rush to move him. But if you can get a 2nd for him now.. I'd take it.

**Fabbri**: I feel the same about him as I do Suter. Not exceptionally talented offensively. Not a plus defensively. Not physical. Not a long-term piece for us. Easily and cheaply replaceable on a short FA signing. 2nd rd pick for him now.. I'd take it.

**Leddy**: He's looking like Yzerman's first noteable mistake here. I don't think we'll be able to get a 2nd back for him. But maybe a 3rd, which I'd take. If we want to we can bring him back after the playoffs on a FA deal.

**Namaste**: Not sure what his value is, maybe a 3rd or a 4th? I'd of course take it. If we want him back, we can resign him after the playoffs.

**Veleno**: I actually think he's looked pretty good lately. I think he's got a better chance to be a long-term piece here than Zadina or Ras. But he's still probably best case a 4th line center or winger who really isn't that good defensively (or offensively). Easily replaceable cheaply on a short FA signing. If I can get a 2nd for him, I'd take it.

**Erne**: Not sure what his value is. Maybe a 3rd or a 4th. He'd be very easy to replace with a cheap 1 or 2yr contract on the FA market. I suppose I'd take a 3rd or a 4th for him. Why not.




Thoughts?

Bertuzzi: I don't think we get a 1st and 2nd. I also don't know that he can command yet a long term deal at 50M. Let's see him hit over 50 points first.
Hronek: Hronek is fine. No team is going to bang down our door for him and he's an alright D. I'm not in a rush to replace him.
Zadina & Rasmussen: We're not going to get that kind of return for them and definitely for Zadina, I'd rather hold onto him as I don't think he gets worse than where he is and I think he's got room to be better. I don't see a need to rush away from Rasmussen either, because they're not holding any hotshot prospect back (as seen with Raymond skyhopping over them both)
Suter: Trade him or not, I couldn't possibly care any less. He's replaceable.
Fabbri: Keep him. I'm not looking to trade guys just to trade them.
Leddy: Yeah, I don't think he's a mistake. His personal stats have definitely taken a hit... but we're in a spot where I'd much rather have him around as someone who can handle an outlet pass and work with Seider and eat tough minutes than hope for a pick.
Namestnikov: Trade him or not, I couldn't possibly care any less. He's replaceable.
Veleno: Why are you looking to trade him? He's had about a quarter season in the NHL on a bad team.
Erne: If he's so easy for you to replace, why is a team giving you any kind of pick for him?

But that being said, the Wings I think have plenty of draft capital. It doesn't hurt to get more picks, but frankly at this point I'd rather have the current young players on the team have NHL talent or at least NHL veterans that they're comfortable with than an extra 2nd and 3rd round pick. They have plenty of capital, as you saw last year, to make these moves you're talking about for "like a guy at the end of the 1st, top of the 2nd". This isn't some EA sports game where even the last couple months of a veteran's contract and presence on the team have absolutely no value. Like ask Seider and Raymond and I'm sure they'd point to a couple of guys on your list being really important in their transitioning to being a pro. I know Seider has called out Danny D as a big influence on him in a positive way.

E: I always hate these type of topics too where the idea is to eventually complain about how we didn't get any assets for our pending UFAs and that's so terrible and the easy refrain is "A 4th round pick is better than nothing and this guy sucks anyway!"

 

[19 for president]

I mean in one sense I think the only no trade people on the team are Larkin, Raymond, Seider, and Ned.

Realstic Deadline Departures
1. Leddy (Could be resigned in the offseason)
2. Greiss (Pickard has played well enough to fill in at backup)
3. Namestikov (having a solid season, and unlikely to come back)
4. Super Staal (I feel like this is the least likely but sone team mau want added depth)

Potential Hockey Trades

I think all of Bert, Suter, Fabbri, and even Hronek are available for the right price but with Fabbri's extension I don't think we see anything from this group until next deadline.

Zadina is probably the most likely to see in a hockey trade but Stevie doesn't sell low so I think he'll wait.

I actually expect this to be a pretty uneventful deadline for the Wings. We don't have a ton to sell and we shouldn't be buying anything woth picks.

 

[blueadams]

A cheap UFA who is 5, 10, 15 years older and has less potential to improve. And there's definitely not a bunch of cheap Filip Hronek's every year in UFA.

A cheap older guy who's already as good as Hronek's ever going to be (which is not very good) will always be available in FA

 

[blueadams]

Man, can you be more negative? Is there are player you like on this team?

I'm extremely positive about Yzerman's ability to draft and find bargain FA's, which is why I'd like to convert all this Holland crap (and some Yzerman FA bargains) into picks

 

[Pavels Dog]

A cheap older guy who's already as good as Hronek's ever going to be (which is not very good) will always be available in FA

Give some examples then of these 40+ point d-men that are signed for cheap in UFA every year.

You're also assuming even if, say, one such player exists in UFA that we can sign him. 31 other teams might be interested, creating a bidding war.

UFA is famously known for being a terrible place to build your team. You end up overpaying for guys on the wrong side of their primes.

 

[Snuggs]

Yeah... I'm noticing a trend. A lot of what I'd do, vs what might happen in a lot of your post.

Anyways:

- Troy Stecher
- Vladislav Namestikov
- Marc Staal
- Nick Leddy
- Filip Zadina.

This group of guys are the ones that are most likely (imo) to be on the move. I'm not expecting all to be moved or a major haul. I think it'll be similar to last year without the Mantha deal being made. I think they moved Merrill for a 6thrdp and Nemeth for a future 4th? Just a few more darts to throw at the draft board.

The move I wanna do is Zadina for Yamamoto but it'll take a little more on our end I think.

 

[blueadams]

Bertuzzi: I don't think we get a 1st and 2nd. I also don't know that he can command yet a long term deal at 50M. Let's see him hit over 50 points first.
Hronek: Hronek is fine. No team is going to bang down our door for him and he's an alright D. I'm not in a rush to replace him.
Zadina & Rasmussen: We're not going to get that kind of return for them and definitely for Zadina, I'd rather hold onto him as I don't think he gets worse than where he is and I think he's got room to be better. I don't see a need to rush away from Rasmussen either, because they're not holding any hotshot prospect back (as seen with Raymond skyhopping over them both)
Suter: Trade him or not, I couldn't possibly care any less. He's replaceable.
Fabbri: Keep him. I'm not looking to trade guys just to trade them.
Leddy: Yeah, I don't think he's a mistake. His personal stats have definitely taken a hit... but we're in a spot where I'd much rather have him around as someone who can handle an outlet pass and work with Seider and eat tough minutes than hope for a pick.
Namestnikov: Trade him or not, I couldn't possibly care any less. He's replaceable.
Veleno: Why are you looking to trade him? He's had about a quarter season in the NHL on a bad team.
Erne: If he's so easy for you to replace, why is a team giving you any kind of pick for him?

But that being said, the Wings I think have plenty of draft capital. It doesn't hurt to get more picks, but frankly at this point I'd rather have the current young players on the team have NHL talent or at least NHL veterans that they're comfortable with than an extra 2nd and 3rd round pick. They have plenty of capital, as you saw last year, to make these moves you're talking about for "like a guy at the end of the 1st, top of the 2nd". This isn't some EA sports game where even the last couple months of a veteran's contract and presence on the team have absolutely no value. Like ask Seider and Raymond and I'm sure they'd point to a couple of guys on your list being really important in their transitioning to being a pro. I know Seider has called out Danny D as a big influence on him in a positive way.

E: I always hate these type of topics too where the idea is to eventually complain about how we didn't get any assets for our pending UFAs and that's so terrible and the easy refrain is "A 4th round pick is better than nothing and this guy sucks anyway!"

1. We'll see re: Bert's eventual contract, I guess.

2. I don't get it. Is Hronek so good that we should keep him. Or so bad that no one would give us anything for him. You're saying both, which is nonsensical.

3. The ONLY value Ras and Zadina have is their draft slots. Every month they get a step closer to just being AHL talents.. and a step further from being young promising prospects. The time to trade them was yesterday. By this time next year, they won't return half of what they would now.

4. I wouldn't trade Fabbri "just to trade him" either. Which is why I said I would do it for a 2nd rd pick.

5. When's the last time Leddy played with Seider??

6. I'd much rather have an Yzerman 2nd rd pick than Veleno, if possible, is why. Wouldn't you?

7. Maybe a playoff team would give up a 4th rd pick for a physical guy like Erne. We have the luxury of the off-season to replace him cheap. Playoff teams only have the TDL.

8. Coaches and smarter veterans than "Danny DeKeyser" can teach our young players just fine.

 

[blueadams]

Give some examples then of these 40+ point d-men that are signed for cheap in UFA every year.

You're also assuming even if, say, one such player exists in UFA that we can sign him. 31 other teams might be interested, creating a bidding war.

UFA is famously known for being a terrible place to build your team. You end up overpaying for guys on the wrong side of their primes.

I'm not "building" a team in FA. I'm talking about finding cheap stop-gap players to keep the team competitive until prospects are ready to take over for them.

Suter, Fabbri, Namaste, Erne, Stecher, Staal, Bernier, etc. Yzerman's found plenty of solid guys cheap.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm not "building" a team in FA. I'm talking about finding cheap stop-gap players to keep the team competitive until prospects are ready to take over for them.

Suter, Fabbri, Namaste, Erne, Stecher, Staal, Bernier, etc. Yzerman's found plenty of solid guys cheap.

Hronek leads this time in icetime and you're talking about a "cheap stopgap" to replace him? Until what? We find a prospect on the level of... Filip Hronek? Or do you seriously think we'll ever ice 6 d-men who are all better than Hronek?

Your list of names includes trades and guys who wouldn't make any NHL roster except ours. These are not legit replacements.

Next season we're competing for playoffs. The time of "cheap stop-gaps" is over.

 

[blueadams]

Hronek leads this time in icetime and you're talking about a "cheap stopgap" to replace him? Until what? We find a prospect on the level of... Filip Hronek? Or do you seriously think we'll ever ice 6 d-men who are all better than Hronek?

Your list of names includes trades and guys who wouldn't make any NHL roster except ours. These are not legit replacements.

Next season we're competing for playoffs. The time of "cheap stop-gaps" is over.

Seider
Edvinsson
Lindstrom
Leddy
***
Johansson
Wallinder
Sebrango
Viro
Buium

I think we already have 4 defensemen better than Hronek, and 5 others who have a good chance to be better than Hronek soon.

Hronek sucks dude. I don't care what his ice time is on this crappy team. I watch him play. He sucks.

 

[blueadams]

Your list of names includes trades and guys who wouldn't make any NHL roster except ours. These are not legit replacements.

Next season we're competing for playoffs. The time of "cheap stop-gaps" is over.

Stop saying conflicting things that make no sense.

Are the guys I said we should trade so good we should keep them? Or so bad no one wants them? It can't be both.

Are we a playoff team next year? Or are we the worst team in the league; the only team who would dress these bums? It can't be both.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Seider
Edvinsson
Lindstrom
Leddy
***
Johansson
Wallinder
Sebrango
Viro
Buium

I think we already have 4 defensemen better than Hronek, and 5 others who have a good chance to be better than Hronek soon.

Hronek sucks dude. I don't care what his ice time is on this crappy team. I watch him play. He sucks.

Lindström isn't better than Hronek, you have to realize that Lindström is just in a smaller role which is easier to handle. Thanks to Seider and Hronek taking the heavier minutes.
Of the 6 prospects you mention, zero are right handed d-men. Even if 4 of them pan out (extremely unlikely) there could still be a place for Hronek.

Stop saying conflicting things that make no sense.

Are the guys I said we should trade so good we should keep them? Or so bad no one wants them? It can't be both.

Are we a playoff team next year? Or are we the worst team in the league; the only team who would dress these bums? It can't be both.

There's nothing conflicting about saying we should fight for the playoffs next season assuming we don't trade half our good players for scraps and replace them with more Marc Staals, Troy Stechers and Adam Ernes.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I'm not "building" a team in FA. I'm talking about finding cheap stop-gap players to keep the team competitive until prospects are ready to take over for them.

Suter, Fabbri, Namaste, Erne, Stecher, Staal, Bernier, etc. Yzerman's found plenty of solid guys cheap.

Right... Yzerman found a bunch of guys for cheap... that required no assets to acquire (or in the case of Staal... was paid to take). But he's supposed to pull, let's say he makes three of the trades you put forth... a couple 2nds and a 3rd or a couple 3rds, a 4th, and a 5th or something from guys he acquired for free? If it's so easy for him to replace these guys with bargain basement players... why are other teams paying the draft pick freight for these guys?

1. We'll see re: Bert's eventual contract, I guess.

2. I don't get it. Is Hronek so good that we should keep him. Or so bad that no one would give us anything for him. You're saying both, which is nonsensical.

3. The ONLY value Ras and Zadina have is their draft slots. Every month they get a step closer to just being AHL talents.. and a step further from being young promising prospects. The time to trade them was yesterday. By this time next year, they won't return half of what they would now.

4. I wouldn't trade Fabbri "just to trade him" either. Which is why I said I would do it for a 2nd rd pick.

5. When's the last time Leddy played with Seider??

6. I'd much rather have an Yzerman 2nd rd pick than Veleno, if possible, is why. Wouldn't you?

7. Maybe a playoff team would give up a 4th rd pick for a physical guy like Erne. We have the luxury of the off-season to replace him cheap. Playoff teams only have the TDL.

8. Coaches and smarter veterans than "Danny DeKeyser" can teach our young players just fine.

This is again playing EA sports with this instead of actually managing the roster.

It's not that we wouldn't get ANYTHING for Hronek, it's that what we would potentially receive in return for Hronek is not going to be as valuable as Hronek himself. Dealing him would open a hole that you're not going to easily fill with a "cheap stop-gap". And if you're looking for an upgrade to him, it's going to cost a lot.

Rasmussen and Zadina dipped in value from their high draft slots. They're also not likely to dip further in value because teams would be trying to pry them for "reclamation prices" right now. The upside of both is greater than the middling pick you'd get for them and the downside isn't really that bad if they just decline.

Trading Fabbri for a 2nd is trading him to trade him. Again, you're opening a hole in your lineup that doesn't have a ready-made filler that you have to pay to fill. To get Fabbri level play or better is going to cost a good bit. I know you're gonna jump up and down and say Berggren and Soderblom and whoever... but they don't need that spot yet.

It's less about Leddy having to be out on the ice at the same time as Seider and more that you can have another veteran voice (an offensively skilled one) in his ear helping to teach. Also, so Seider doesn't have to be kept out there to get his head beat in when he eventually does run into the rookie wall.

No, I'd rather give Joe Veleno a shot to develop than get some mystery bag. Yzerman is a good GM, but Veleno is a talented prospect. I don't attribute more value to a draft pick slot just because Yzerman is selecting it.

Fine, trade Erne. He's neither here nor there. I just don't ever really have a high opinion of most trades to get a fourth round pick. Grab bag fans love that one but I just don't get excited about a 2% chance at ever seeing the player, particularly when we already have three or four bites at the apple there. You need to have some kind of NHL roster for when you start getting really good young players like Raymond and Seider.

I mean, whatever, I'm going off of Seider's own words in his interview he did with Raymond on Wingspan where he said what Danny Dekeyser meant to him in terms of getting used to being in America and being in the NHL. In terms of what it means to be a professional. I'm not going to jealously hold onto Danny D for something like that... but I'm also not going to just chuck a guy out with the bath water because "other coaches and better players can teach him too". It's like how Doug Sulliman had a far bigger impact on Brendan Shanahan's development and improvement as a hockey player than Brett Hull did even though Hull was so far and away the better player it's not even funny. If Seider keeps developing like he is? I don't go out of my way to dick around with that.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Seider
Edvinsson
Lindstrom
Leddy
***
Johansson
Wallinder
Sebrango
Viro
Buium

I think we already have 4 defensemen better than Hronek, and 5 others who have a good chance to be better than Hronek soon.

Hronek sucks dude. I don't care what his ice time is on this crappy team. I watch him play. He sucks.

This is insanity. Pure insanity. Somehow Leddy is better than Hronek, but you can get a 1st or 2nd back for Hronek and only a 3rd at best for Leddy and Leddy's a huge mistake by Yzerman.

Of this list...

Seider is better now.
Edvinsson looks to be tracking better.
Hronek is younger and more skilled than Leddy.

Lindstrom doesn't belong anywhere near the top of this list.

And all of those other prospects? I sincerely doubt more than two of those five in the bottom even play one minute in Detroit.

 

[ThankGord]

Looks like we're gonna be sellers (Jan 13th). Let's talk..

Preface: A 2nd or a 3rd rd pick acquired in a TDL deal isn't necessarily 'adding yet another 18yr old prospect to the system'. It's adding draft capital to the franchise. It's allowing you to package a mid-1st and a 2nd for a stud you really like in the top-10. It's packaging two 2nd's for a stud who's slipping to the end of the 1st. It's packaging a 2nd a 3rd for a guy you love on the start of day 2. Every bit of capital matters. And I know we're not gonna make 10 TDL moves. But a lot of these guys I'd love to move for some capital.

**Bertuzzi**. I love Bertuzzi. You love Bertuzzi. We all love Bertuzzi. Other GM's love Bertuzzi. He's a FA at the end of next yr. He could realistically demand something like $7M/yr for 8yrs if he hits the open market. His agent will be negotiating from that strength this summer. Larkin's a FA after next season too. Vrana the next yr. Seider and Raymond the next. Is a $56'ish million dollar contract what you want to give Bertuzzi over 7yrs in this rebuild? It's a real shame Canada's insane with these mandates (even though Bert's already got natural immunity and the vaccines have pretty much been proven to do nothing against transmission), because he'd return a real haul. I don't think he returns as much this summer, as a FA-to-be. Do you think we could get a 1st and a 2nd for him? Would you take that? Me personally.. yes. I don't want to
give him 50+ mil this summer.

**Hronek**: I don't like Hronek. He's an offensive defensemen who can't really handle the puck, who rarely makes exceptional passes, and who actually puts a shot on target about 2 or 3 times a month. He's small and weak in front of our net. He still has too many defensive lapses. I like Lidstrom as our future #3. I don't think Hronek's good enough to be our future #2. I think we could find an equally talented RHD on the FA market on a 1 or 2 yr deal. If you can get a 1st or a 2nd for Hronek.. I'd take it.

**Zadina & Rasmussen**: I've seen enough. I don't think either is a long-term piece for us. I think the best case scenario for either is to eventually become average bottom-six players. I think we'll always be able to cheaply find players who've already reached that point on 1 or 2 yr deals on the FA market. If we can get 2nd or 3rds for either, I'd take it. Maybe they rebound and we could get more next yr. But if they repeat this yr, their value becomes nothing. 2nd or 3rd rd picks on the table this yr.. I take it.

**Suter**: I also don't see him as a long-term piece. I don't think he's exceptionally talented offensively. I don't think he's a plus defensively. He's not a physical presence. He could easily be replaced by an equal player on the FA market on a cheap 1 or 2 yr. No real rush to move him. But if you can get a 2nd for him now.. I'd take it.

**Fabbri**: I feel the same about him as I do Suter. Not exceptionally talented offensively. Not a plus defensively. Not physical. Not a long-term piece for us. Easily and cheaply replaceable on a short FA signing. 2nd rd pick for him now.. I'd take it.

**Leddy**: He's looking like Yzerman's first noteable mistake here. I don't think we'll be able to get a 2nd back for him. But maybe a 3rd, which I'd take. If we want to we can bring him back after the playoffs on a FA deal.

**Namaste**: Not sure what his value is, maybe a 3rd or a 4th? I'd of course take it. If we want him back, we can resign him after the playoffs.

**Veleno**: I actually think he's looked pretty good lately. I think he's got a better chance to be a long-term piece here than Zadina or Ras. But he's still probably best case a 4th line center or winger who really isn't that good defensively (or offensively). Easily replaceable cheaply on a short FA signing. If I can get a 2nd for him, I'd take it.

**Erne**: Not sure what his value is. Maybe a 3rd or a 4th. He'd be very easy to replace with a cheap 1 or 2yr contract on the FA market. I suppose I'd take a 3rd or a 4th for him. Why not.




Thoughts?

I see you studied at the Buffalo Sabres School of Perpetual Rebuilding.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I would keep Zadina, Hronek, Bert, Veleno. Everyone else on the list can get traded for assets imo.

 

[Sentinel]

Everybody except Larkin and the three rookies are expendable at the right price. But I am not trading ANYONE just trade them. Unless they are traded for a better player / player with better potential. I would not trade Hronek or Fabbri. These are the holes in the lineup that cannot be easily filled.

But I would certainly trade Zadina and Ras. These two are infuriating.

 

[Ishad]

Likely TDL is Leddy or Namestikov. We aren't trying to rebuild for all eternity.

 

[Snuggs]

While disappointing still I can stomach Rasmussen better than Zadina cause Ras is at least looking like he'll stick around just about anywhere as a effective bottom or 4th line type F/C.

Zadina is trending towards Europe. (IMO). He doesn't look like a NHL player.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

No, we cannot replace half of our roster in free agency on the cheap. I don't know where this notion is coming from but it needs to stop.

Leddy is the only player we will move at the deadline. We should be moving Bert, but the situation in Canada at the moment (rightly or wrongly) just suppresses his trade value too much. I absolutely love him but do not want him back as a UFA given what he will command and his health history.

No one will want anything else on our roster. For the six millionth time, if you want to trade someone because they are bad, you cannot expect other teams to want them.