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To the other conversation from the team thread:
If this was our prospect pool today what would you think of it? All I did was remove any pick higher than we had from 1997 to 2014 (excluding Larsson) - All of a sudden the pool doesn't look so sexy does it? Two of the top 3 aren't even our picks...Did the drafting get better? Or did having higher picks improve the pool? Higher picks come at a cost you know? And that isn't better drafting.
1. Nolan Foote 2019 Round 1 #27 overall* not our pick traded for
2. Shakir Mukhamadullin 2020 round 1 #20 overall
3. Kevin Bahl 2018 round 2 #55 overall * not our pick traded for
4. Graeme Clarke 2019 round 3 #80 overall
5. Chase Stillman 2021 round 1 #29 overall
6. Nikita Okhotiuk 2019 round 2 #61 overall
7. Samu Salminen 2021 round 3 #68 overall
8. Michael Vukojevic 2019 round 3 #82 overall
Are you assuming people here have scouted every pick and/or the gift of second sight or something?
Jesper Bratt’s ranking on 2016 list was #17. Yeah, lower picks have lower profiles, expectations etc
“Or did having higher picks improve the pool?”
Wow, I’m glad I was busy and I missed this kind of
contrarian debate club high-end discussion. Wow, 1st round picks are valued more. Shocking truths exposed.
I didn’t read the other thread, I assume it’s a blast as you inexplicably decide these time periods are two vastly different drafting universes that are at war inside your brain.
I would point out that Lou and the gang actually had a good flow of extra picks in 1996-2005 because not only were there 9 rounds until 2004, there were compensatory picks for Group III Free Agents who left (if you didn’t sign a UFA of equal value). It’s why you have ~35 2nd picks in some of these drafts, there’s up to ~20 extra picks strewn around in them. (Our 2nd in 2003 was #68! WTF)
Here’s the rules for them if you have some free time and want stop caring about life (I kid, they are just complicated and boring):
LetsGoPens.com - NHL Collective Bargaining Agreement
So we did get picks for UFAs who walked and teams were compensated for unsigned 1st rd picks (I believe that ended in 2015). It’s why we have a bunch of extra random picks in that era. (Teams were limited to two a year, so it couldn’t get too crazy.)
FYI, #40 is the highest any FA gets (1997 Gretzky/Blues, 1998 Messier/Rangers and 1999 Brett Hull/Blues-Preds-Panther Expansion Draft thing). Unsigned 1st rounders result w/ a pick in the same position in 2nd round (ex. the 15th pick is the 15th pick in the 2nd rd).
1996 #101 4th rd: Josh MacNevin
(FA Bruce Driver)
Hey, we got Colin White in the 2nd round! (With our 4th 2nd round pick). Note: We had SEVEN “top 100” picks, I know you put a lot of emphasis on that. This is a pretty crappy draft but a ton of picks too. (Lou turned the #28 pick into two 2nds.)
1997 #58 3rd rd: traded to Senators in pick trade
(FA Phil Housley)
Well, Clemmer, did things and I
Bisek
1998 #37 2nd rd: Christian Berglund
(Unsigned 1996 1st Lance Ward)
1998 #143 5th rd: Ryan Flynn
(FA Dave Ellett… everyone’s favorite thrown in from the Gilmour trade.) This draft is blast, the trade-ups for Gomez and Gionta, involve all sorts of stuff and there are a bunch of other random trades (Dagenais cannot escape us!). So much stuff, got to love it. (Imaginary Note to Fitz: throw me a bone next draft buddy, make a trade, anything.)
1999 #42 2nd rd: Mike Commodore
(FA Doug Gilmore)
1999 #100 4th rd: Teemu Kesu
(FA Steve Thomas)
Commodore, thanks Dougie, is a good pick but the rest are… yeah
2000 #56 2nd rd: Aleksander Suglobov
(Unsigned 1998 1st Mike Van Ryn)
#135 5th rd: Mike Danton
(FA Dave Andreychuk, valued like a true Hall of Famer forward lol)
And I when I talk about having a lot of 2nds, Paul Martin is pretty sweet pick at #62 but he’s our FOURTH 2nd pick in the 2000 draft. (We had extra ones from dumping Sharifijanov in Vancouver and one was a piece in the Lemieux-Rolston trade.) And only one of the three other guys played 18 games in the NHL, and 14 of them were for the Leafs. SEVEN “top 100” picks again.
2001
#67 3rd rd: Robin Leblanc
(FA Claude Lemieux)
#81 3rd Devils: Ottawa pick trade
(FA Vladimir Malakhov)
God, this f***ing draft. There was Foster, the legendary prodigy who dominated midget hockey until Sidney Crosby threw him into a volcano. Jason Voorhees, also, is here, I believe he briefly was on the Rangers. This was the good old days, when an “overage” European could be a random 27 yo forward (Salomonsson, who I kind of liked in an underdog way but I’m a softie).
Again, we have three 2nds, if you’re into playing “coulda drafted shoulda drafted”, you can certainly do it here, Mike Cammalleri (#49) was drafted right after Pihlman (#48)! And Pominville (#55) is right there, we could have drafted him, instead of Igor Pohanka (#44). Good players right after we drafted worse players! Heavens to Betsy! Booo! SIX “top 100” picks for naught! (I’m I doing this right?) Anyway, I hate this draft.
2002
#51 2nd Devils: Anton Kadeykin
(FA Alexander Mogilny)
Well, objectively speaking, we got better at drafting Russian defensemen because holy shit this kid sucked something fierce.
#218 7th Devils: Ilkka Pikkarainen
(FA Ken Sutton) Yes, Sutton somehow was worth something. This draft only has two 2nds and FIVE “top 100” picks and we now mostly get to wonder how Cam Janssen played 336 games. Krisjanis Redlihs is still playing at 40 and not only did the Devils org fail him, we as a society failed him, and I didn’t get to wear a Devils jersey with a cool Latvian player on it.
2003
#42 2nd: Petr Vrana
(FA Bobby Holik)
Uh oh, fans of “shoulda coulda”, this could get ugly. Like Patrice Bergeron (#45), which was a compensatory pick for Bill Guerin, and Shea Weber (#49) ugly.
On a lighter note, we only got Parise because we had the ability to swap our #30 with the Blues #22, and then use our 2nd (uh, #68) to jump to #17, as the last kiss of the Stevens tampering punishment. A segment Blues fans still grouse about it, which is always fun.
2004
#216 7th rd: Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond
(FA Jim McKenzie)
Well, that something I guess. We traded for Travis, so yay but annoying teams have annoying wins this draft. Sharks help the Bruins trade up for Krejci and the Coyotes failed trade up nets the Rangers (Dubinsky).
And the Sharks traded for Messier in order to get the compensatory pick and the Rangers draft Ryan Callahan (#127) with San Jose’s 4th. The 3rd Mess gets from the NHL, #91, snags Alex Edler… for Vancouver, who traded for the pick, Wilson wasn’t killing it. The Pens gave the Canucks Johan Hedberg as rental, 21 games (plus 2 PO games) and got them Alex Goligoski (#61).
Bleh.
2005
The draft is cut to seven rounds. It’s a weirdo 1-3 ball lottery after the lockout and the NHL can eat a bag a dicks for handing the Pens Crosby. I do get a chuckle when I see that it’s a snake draft, like Fantasy Hockey.
I’m running out of energy pretending to care about the debate part, but I did want to point out why we were a little more flush with picks. The last FA compensatory pick:
#230 7th Predators: Patric Hornqvist
(FA Wade Flaherty) It ends with a bang.
