2021 Draft - 1st Pick: Xavier Bourgault (F)

[belair]

It's also ok to deal guys like Bourgault and Broberg that don't look like can't miss stars to strengthen the team and/or recoup picks. We pissed away any value that Yamamoto and Puljujarvi had because we read their trajectory and upsides wrong. Let's not do the same with these 2.

We pissed away Puljujarvi and Yamamoto because we have them significant raises after they hit some reasonable production. You're not getting much for either of those prospects trading them before there's any sense of certain upside.

Bourgault still has plenty of runway left.

 

[McTonyBrar]

We pissed away Puljujarvi and Yamamoto because we have them significant raises after they hit some reasonable production. You're not getting much for either of those prospects trading them before there's any sense of certain upside.

Bourgault still has plenty of runway left.

I agree. Bourgault has lots of time. Look at Casey Mittlestadt in Buffalo. He was looking like a 3rd liner/bust a year and half ago. Now he's on pace for 75 points

 

[Sra1974]

He's been playing on the first or second line with Tullio and McKegg for the last little while and he's third on the Condors for PP goals by forwards, so I think a lot of that "buried" stuff is just the usual prospect angst that gets directed at AHL coaches.

Thx

 

[Fourier]

Do you or anyone else know how many picks Pittsburgh dealt in their window? It seemed like they were doing it a lot back then, we've been somewhat tame in comparison IMO. Would be interesting to see the head to head comparison!

EDIT-Just looked on hockeydb:

Since the 2008 draft the Penguins have drafted:
in the 1st round 9 of a possible 16 times and in 2012 they had a pair of 1st round picks so basically they have drafted in the 1st round every other year since 2008.

In terms of 2nd rounders they drafted 12 and 2 of those came in the 2016 draft and 2 more in the 2018 draft. So once again more or less every other year. We haven't dealt near that much to this point and our drafting has sucked.

I am all for moving picks at this time, but there are a few things to note in a comparison with Pittsburgh:

1) Pittsburgh has been a desirable destination for players for most of the time Crosby and Malkin have been in the NHL. Winning is one reason but so is the fact that they are out east and in the US. This made life a bit easier because they could get players like Karlsson, Hossa, Iginla and Kessel to agree to a deal. The Oilers historically have had a lot of guys put them on their NT list. And these days many of the players that you would move a first for have movement restrictions. Ekholm was an exception in that regard. The fact that they have an easier time signing UFA's also means that they can more readily deal picks and prospects.

2) Cap space also plays a role. You can't make an impact trade with picks and prospects unless you have the space for the incoming player. Bad cap management has been a factor here on the Oiler side.

3) Pittsburgh is probably only batting 50-50 on these trades. The wins have been for near sure things where #1 comes into play. Trading the #16 pick for Reinhart was a massive issue for the Oilers, but the Pens 2018 1st rounder that they dealt in a complicated trade that ended up being a nothing burger for them eventually became K'Andre Miller. When you move a 1st you really do want it to have an impact.

 

[alphahelix]

I agree. Bourgault has lots of time. Look at Casey Mittlestadt in Buffalo. He was looking like a 3rd liner/bust a year and half ago. Now he's on pace for 75 points

i know for a fact the head office in Buffalo was super super high on Mittelstadt since before they drafted him and basically believed in him the whole time. Imagine if we put that kind of energy into a guy like Lavoie or Bourgault? I think we actually owe a great deal to Woody dating back to his time in the A, because he believed in his guys and brought them all the way along- even when a lot of these guys who are quality NHL regulars now were far from sure things.

 

[joestevens29]

i know for a fact the head office in Buffalo was super super high on Mittelstadt since before they drafted him and basically believed in him the whole time. Imagine if we put that kind of energy into a guy like Lavoie or Bourgault? I think we actually owe a great deal to Woody dating back to his time in the A, because he believed in his guys and brought them all the way along- even when a lot of these guys who are quality NHL regulars now were far from sure things.

We did with JP and KY, and fans were bitching.

It's not just the team that is to blame. These prospects need to put in the work as well

Although it really is only his 2nd pro year so I don't know what people exactly expect. There are lots of guys from his draft range yet to play in the NHL, some having more success in the AHL, some doing the same and some doing worse.

 

[Canovin]

i know for a fact the head office in Buffalo was super super high on Mittelstadt since before they drafted him and basically believed in him the whole time. Imagine if we put that kind of energy into a guy like Lavoie or Bourgault? I think we actually owe a great deal to Woody dating back to his time in the A, because he believed in his guys and brought them all the way along- even when a lot of these guys who are quality NHL regulars now were far from sure things.

Woody as the AHL coach and Knob as the NHL coach would be a better combo for the clubs

 

[alphahelix]

We did with JP and KY, and fans were bitching.

It's not just the team that is to blame. These prospects need to put in the work as well

Although it really is only his 2nd pro year so I don't know what people exactly expect. There are lots of guys from his draft range yet to play in the NHL, some having more success in the AHL, some doing the same and some doing worse.

JP had double hip surgery twice in his short career and was likely playing through it before surgical options were entertained. Who knows what he might have been, but he was a decent NHL plug for us even if he never developed into a star as hoped. You cant control everything.

 

[joestevens29]

JP had double hip surgery twice in his short career and was likely playing through it before surgical options were entertained. Who knows what he might have been, but he was a decent NHL plug for us even if he never developed into a star as hoped. You cant control everything.

Still we've given countless prospects the rope. McLeod, Holloway, Niemo, Desharnais, Jones, Bear etc...

At some point it comes to the player themself. Broberg is a perfect example, never hear nothing about him spending extra time in practice, yet an older guy drafted in 7th round was staying late after every practice.

A lot of these guys need self reflection not "i was a high draft pick, so I should get whatever I want"

 

[Canovin]

Yamo and Pulju aren't exactly busts. They just didn't live up to their draft pedigree. But they're still NHLers. We shipped them off because they were overpaid. If they were paid 1M, they would still be here.
Broberg, Holloway, Lavoie, Bourgault, Tullio I have no doubt will be NHLers. Just maybe not anything special

 

[joestevens29]

Yamo and Pulju aren't exactly busts. They just didn't live up to their draft pedigree. But they're still NHLers. We shipped them off because they were overpaid. If they were paid 1M, they would still be here.
Broberg, Holloway, Lavoie, Bourgault, Tullio I have no doubt will be NHLers. Just maybe not anything special

You're not wrong, but at the same time this team gave both those guys so many chances to play in a role that was clearly too high up the lineup for them.

The chances are there with this organization, sometimes you just have to earn them instead of being handed on. Especially on a club that was supposed to be fighting for the stanley cup

Guys aren't getting the chances in game, then spend the time after practice with the coaches working on things that will help you get more ice time. There aren't too many coaches out there that are going to say no. Start doing that and you'll start getting some extra looks.

 

[alphahelix]

Still we've given countless prospects the rope. McLeod, Holloway, Niemo, Desharnais, Jones, Bear etc...

At some point it comes to the player themself. Broberg is a perfect example, never hear nothing about him spending extra time in practice, yet an older guy drafted in 7th round was staying late after every practice.

A lot of these guys need self reflection not "i was a high draft pick, so I should get whatever I want"

There were a bunch of vets going to bat for Broberg last time he was sent down (like Ekholm) who seemed to be suggesting he had a high work ethic and the right attitude. They seem convinced he will be a player. There really isnt room here for somebody breaking in yknow

 

[Spawn]

We did with JP and KY, and fans were bitching.

It's not just the team that is to blame. These prospects need to put in the work as well

Although it really is only his 2nd pro year so I don't know what people exactly expect. There are lots of guys from his draft range yet to play in the NHL, some having more success in the AHL, some doing the same and some doing worse.

I think people are expecting some development. Obviously things aren’t always going to be in a straight line, but for a player who was drafted to be an offensive player and who was an elite offensive player in juniors, he had a very mediocre AHL rookie season and is following that up with an even worse sophomore season. He’s regressing as a prospect.

For what feels like decades now the Oilers have a very long list of prospects who are very promising prospects when they are in junior/college and then for whatever reason when they hit the AHL completely wither out and die as prospects. It happened to Bourgault, Tulio and Savoie last year. Its happened to Petrov again this year.

The drafting and development of this organization continues to be atrocious.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yamo and Pulju aren't exactly busts. They just didn't live up to their draft pedigree. But they're still NHLers. We shipped them off because they were overpaid. If they were paid 1M, they would still be here.
Broberg, Holloway, Lavoie, Bourgault, Tullio I have no doubt will be NHLers. Just maybe not anything special

I agree they are NHLers (assuming Pool is healthy). But with the way RFAs work and arbitration Auto-Raises, you kinda need your first rounders to be special. When they are just mediocre, or have flash in the pan production you end up overpaying when arbitration rolls around, which means they are gone cause free agents can provide what they provide at a lower cost.

 

[joestevens29]

I think people are expecting some development. Obviously things aren’t always going to be in a straight line, but for a player who was drafted to be an offensive player and who was an elite offensive player in juniors, he had a very mediocre AHL rookie season and is following that up with an even worse sophomore season. He’s regressing as a prospect.

I get that, but why is it always the organizations fault for his development?

Too many people think these prospects we have are better than they actually are at this point in time and should be given everything. There is a reason why some guys get the time and others don't.

 

[Spawn]

I get that, but why is it always the organizations fault for his development?

Too many people think these prospects we have are better than they actually are at this point in time and should be given everything. There is a reason why some guys get the time and others don't.

Oh I don’t care if it’s the organizations fault or the players fault. It’s bad drafting and bad development.

 

[joestevens29]

I agree they are NHLers (assuming Pool is healthy). But with the way RFAs work and arbitration Auto-Raises, you kinda need your first rounders to be special. When they are just mediocre, or have flash in the pan production you end up overpaying when arbitration rolls around, which means they are gone cause free agents can provide what they provide at a lower cost.

Been seeing more and more teams walking away from this situation. I know a lot of it was due to the flat cap, but I wonder going forward if that changes or not.

 

[TheNumber4]

Been seeing more and more teams walking away from this situation. I know a lot of it was due to the flat cap, but I wonder going forward if that changes or not.

Yeh true. RFAs are being walked from when teams don’t believe in them. I wonder that too actually, or will those RFA auto raises just move upward with the cap as well.

 

[TheNumber4]

I get that, but why is it always the organizations fault for his development?

Too many people think these prospects we have are better than they actually are at this point in time and should be given everything. There is a reason why some guys get the time and others don't.

I agree on the fault point. A lot of fans get attached to prospects and then place blame on the org. Sometimes it’s the case, but a lot of the time it’s just the prospect themselves. Like on the Oilers there’s prospects who develop just fine, like let’s say Mcleod or Bouch, then there’s guys who don’t look like they will, like XB or Broberg. So is the organization just picky with who they want to develop properly? Doesn’t seem like that would make sense, it’s just players themselves alot of times.

 

[joestevens29]

I agree on the fault point. A lot of fans get attached to prospects and then place blame on the org. Sometimes it’s the case, but a lot of the time it’s just the prospect themselves. Like on the Oilers there’s prospects who develop just fine, like let’s say Mcleod or Bouch, then there’s guys who don’t look like they will, like XB or Broberg. So is the organization just picky with who they want to develop properly? Doesn’t seem like that would make sense, it’s just players themselves alot of times.

Chaulk had some pretty good assessments on guys in the summer and then a couple weeks ago too.

For some guys they just struggle to adjust to the pro life. I'd have to go find my comments, but I thought it was Bourgault that was mentioned to having a heck of a time adjusting to life in Bakersfield. Small town kid that took moving to the city as a massive blockade. As well as I believe the whole being responsible for himself.

Then of course there is the guys that expect everything given to them because of where they are picked and don't put in the work needed to be a pro

And then from a fan standpoint we expect great things out of first round picks. I mean a guy goes 32nd there are all sorts of talk about how he should be better as his a first. He goes 33rd, not as much.

 

[TheNumber4]

Chaulk had some pretty good assessments on guys in the summer and then a couple weeks ago too.

For some guys they just struggle to adjust to the pro life. I'd have to go find my comments, but I thought it was Bourgault that was mentioned to having a heck of a time adjusting to life in Bakersfield. Small town kid that took moving to the city as a massive blockade. As well as I believe the whole being responsible for himself.

Then of course there is the guys that expect everything given to them because of where they are picked and don't put in the work needed to be a pro

And then from a fan standpoint we expect great things out of first round picks. I mean a guy goes 32nd there are all sorts of talk about how he should be better as his a first. He goes 33rd, not as much.

Yeh I would agree. Good point on that whole 32 vs 33 thing too, it really shouldn’t be too must different in how we view them but we do. It’s a bit irrational.