B-Sens 2020-2021 Belleville Senators

[Icelevel]

gotta give Greig a shot up the lineup .. I'd put him on the 2nd line and move Kelly to the 3rd and Reinhardt out

Dorion said Kelly was a standout overall so far this year. Says he will definitely be a great Ottawa Senator one day. For what that’s worth. (Nothing if you ask me but hey)

 

[Xspyrit]

Dorion said Kelly was a standout overall so far this year. Says he will definitely be a great Ottawa Senator one day. For what that’s worth. (Nothing if you ask me but hey)

Is it a good or bad thing that Dorion/DJ see a lot more value in 21 y/o undrafted kid Parker Kelly (16 pts in 57 AHL GP last year) than Filip Chlapik or Rudolfs Balcers (both were 22 y/o last time they played)?

I know points aren't everything and I know waiver eligibility played a role in this but I am not sure what to think... Sure, if our roster was lacking in intensity and grit I could understand but it is apparently already stacked in that regard!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion said Kelly was a standout overall so far this year. Says he will definitely be a great Ottawa Senator one day. For what that’s worth. (Nothing if you ask me but hey)

I know I like Kelly .. I don't think they were singing his praises for his top 6 upside

 

[Icelevel]

Is it a good or bad thing that Dorion/DJ see a lot more value in 21 y/o undrafted kid Parker Kelly (16 pts in 57 AHL GP last year) than Filip Chlapik or Rudolfs Balcers (both were 22 y/o last time they played)?

I know points aren't everything and I know waiver eligibility played a role in this but I am not sure what to think... Sure, if our roster was lacking in intensity and grit I could understand but it is apparently already stacked in that regard!

Yeah PD was asked yesterday if anyone stood out and impressed. Out of anyone at all. And he went on and on about Parker Kelly making guarantees and pretty much pencilling him in to our lineup if the future even though he says DJ makes those decisions.
Strange dude our GM

 

[Crosside]

Yeah PD was asked yesterday if anyone stood out and impressed. Out of anyone at all. And he went on and on about Parker Kelly.
Strange dude our GM

And Sokolov , he said

 

[aragorn]

Is it a good or bad thing that Dorion/DJ see a lot more value in 21 y/o undrafted kid Parker Kelly (16 pts in 57 AHL GP last year) than Filip Chlapik or Rudolfs Balcers (both were 22 y/o last time they played)?

I know points aren't everything and I know waiver eligibility played a role in this but I am not sure what to think... Sure, if our roster was lacking in intensity and grit I could understand but it is apparently already stacked in that regard!

It's not about today with a player like Parker Kelly, it's about the future. Parker Kelly is not going to make the team this yr, but he works hard on every shift, at every practice & has the kind of work ethic & intensity that DJ is trying to instill into this team. There are 9 UFAs presently in this org & I would hope that most of them should be gone by the trade deadline or before next season opening up roster spaces for next season.

There are probably a few more guys on this team that may also not be on the team & traded during the yr or after the season, Balcers is already gone & won't be missed & Chlapik is another bubble guy who IMO that can also be easily replaced. I raved about Parker Kelly when I went to see the rookie tournament a few yrs ago in Laval, I believe you were there as well, he has a motor that just doesn't stop. Balcers is a flyby player IMO & while I like Chlapik, let's face it he's another bubble guy who doesn't play hard enough every shift, similar problem to L. Brown in that regard. Kelly gets into players faces & he makes players aware he is out there.

They have five guys in their lineup that all played in Belleville last yr in Paul, Norris, Batherson, Wolanin & Hogberg so it could be argued that they are inserting young guys onto the roster, although not specifically some of the guys some fans want. Tkachuk, Stuetzle & Chabot are young guys, so is White if & when he gets back into the lineup. I was hoping L. Brown would make the team, but it seems more likely every day that he could get traded although he is only 22 yrs old, I wonder if Columbus would be interested?

All this to say that a player like Kelly who plays with so much intensity & desire (which I prefer) seems to be what this coaching staff looks for more so than a player who is a little more skilled, but may lack that intensity. It could also be what they are looking for in their bottom six, a guy who hits & is much harder to play against than a softer skilled player. However, with Tkachuk, Stuetzle, Formenton & Paul on the left side I find it hard to see where Kelly will play anytime soon though.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Dorion was asked the following:
TSN1200: "Is there a guy that wasn't on the team last year that you thought was going to be good but are actually surprised he might be better than that? That has really come in and shown that he is going to be a big part of this team?"

Dorion's response:
"Two guys. Parker Kelly. To me there is not a player with a bigger heart on our team than Parker Kelly. He bothered his future teammates all training camp. He finished every check, he's got great reads, he skates well. He's someone that is going to play for us down the road without a doubt. Probably my biggest surprise, as I always knew Parker Kelly had it in him, was a guy like Egor Sokolov. You look at the details of his game. His size, his strength. How he drives to the net, how he drops his shoulder. How he protects the puck. How you see a coach go talk to him and you are trying to figure out what they are telling him in practice and next time they do a drill it is exactly what they asked for. So those are probably, when we talk about kids that we have, prospects that we have, those would be the two guys that really left a mark and impression on us."
Dorion: DJ Smith's approach is a big reason this is one of the best camps of my career

That is pretty high praise for both Kelly and Sokolov. Maybe they earn themselves some NHL games this season.

 

[Ouroboros]

The Parker Kelly stuff reminds me of when they were hyping up Max McCormick. Didn't work out.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Yeah PD was asked yesterday if anyone stood out and impressed. Out of anyone at all. And he went on and on about Parker Kelly making guarantees and pretty much pencilling him in to our lineup if the future even though he says DJ makes those decisions.
Strange dude our GM

It doesn't seem that strange to me. Kelly was passed over in his first draft eligible year took a tryout with Ottawa's development camp, was invited back to the rookie tournament and earned himself an Entry Level Contract. The next year he took part in development camp and was co-awarded the hardest worker with Brady Tkachuk. Shean Donovan raved about him and said that the probably would have gone in the 2nd round as a 2nd year draft eligible if they didn't sign him. He was one of the last cuts in training camp last season so he impressed DJ Smith enough to almost make the team. He has had one season as a pro and clearly impressed in camp again. Dorion is basically describing him as a superpest. DJ Smith likes physical players and the organization is building a tough team. Dorion is likely confident that Kelly will eventually become a valuable superpest in the long run.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Based on Dorion's comments it is a good sign for Egor Sokolov. Hopefully he has a strong start to the AHL season and continues to impress.

 

[R2010]

The Parker Kelly stuff reminds me of when they were hyping up Max McCormick. Didn't work out.

I dunno if I call that not working out. 6th round picks that end up as depth players is pretty successful to me. Any late round pick who ends up getting a few games here or there is pretty good.

 

[OD99]

Kelly has always been a better prospect than Mad Max.

 

[Xspyrit]

It's not about today with a player like Parker Kelly, it's about the future. Parker Kelly is not going to make the team this yr, but he works hard on every shift, at every practice & has the kind of work ethic & intensity that DJ is trying to instill into this team. There are 9 UFAs presently in this org & I would hope that most of them should be gone by the trade deadline or before next season opening up roster spaces for next season.

I'm aware of that and have no problem with it. But like I have said before, a team is all about the right mix of players. You can't have only Parker Kelly types, like you can't only have Hoffman's types. Like you say, still a lot of uncertainty in regards to spots that will be taken in the future so who knows if Parker will have a spot. Could maybe replace someone like Paquette (who wasn't great last night)

There are probably a few more guys on this team that may also not be on the team & traded during the yr or after the season, Balcers is already gone & won't be missed & Chlapik is another bubble guy who IMO that can also be easily replaced. I raved about Parker Kelly when I went to see the rookie tournament a few yrs ago in Laval, I believe you were there as well, he has a motor that just doesn't stop. Balcers is a flyby player IMO & while I like Chlapik, let's face it he's another bubble guy who doesn't play hard enough every shift, similar problem to L. Brown in that regard. Kelly gets into players faces & he makes players aware he is out there.

Yeah I remember him from that rookie tournament. First thing that jumped to me was his work ethic, relentless motor and intensity. Tailor-made for DJ Smith really. So yeah maybe could be a great 4th liner. He's kind of small so he'll really have to be Pageau-like to be efficient. Lower-body strenght gonna be the key for him.

But kinda disagree on Chlapik. He's a guy that has to adjust from being a "skilled guy" to a more complete player. I think he can be an excellent 4th line center, I'm not the only one who sees that.

Balcers and Logan Brown are more "pure skill" guys so it's another subject. They're not built to be DJ types but my point (many other posters have the same one) is that we hope that we won't always avoid skilled players like plague because they're not DJ prototypes. IMO it's good to have pure skill players as well, as long as they are carefully well surrounded.

Ex : could you see a Tkachuk-Brown-Batherson line work out for example? I could.

They have five guys in their lineup that all played in Belleville last yr in Paul, Norris, Batherson, Wolanin & Hogberg so it could be argued that they are inserting young guys onto the roster, although not specifically some of the guys some fans want. Tkachuk, Stuetzle & Chabot are young guys, so is White if & when he gets back into the lineup. I was hoping L. Brown would make the team, but it seems more likely every day that he could get traded although he is only 22 yrs old, I wonder if Columbus would be interested?

That's the guys I am focusing on, I want them to progress. Tkachuk, Chabot, Batherson, Norris, Stutzle, Wolanin, Paul and Matt Murray. I would hope that White works or at least re-etablish trade value. There's some solid veterans that I like and think they are really good to have around the young core (Dadonov, Connor Brown, Watson, maybe some others like Gudbranson, etc)

Columbus would probably be interested in Brown but they're apparently not looking for a "futures" package, they want at least one proven piece.

All this to say that a player like Kelly who plays with so much intensity & desire (which I prefer) seems to be what this coaching staff looks for more so than a player who is a little more skilled, but may lack that intensity. It could also be what they are looking for in their bottom six, a guy who hits & is much harder to play against than a softer skilled player. However, with Tkachuk, Stuetzle, Formenton & Paul on the left side I find it hard to see where Kelly will play anytime soon though.

Yeah and there's also Sokolov, Jarventie and Greig who are LW. There's also Abramov who can play both wings. Crookshank and Daoust (could be a Center) could also develop into NHL LWs. Really stacked on LW.

 

[aragorn]

I'm aware of that and have no problem with it. But like I have said before, a team is all about the right mix of players. You can't have only Parker Kelly types, like you can't only have Hoffman's types. Like you say, still a lot of uncertainty in regards to spots that will be taken in the future so who knows if Parker will have a spot. Could maybe replace someone like Paquette (who wasn't great last night)



Yeah I remember him from that rookie tournament. First thing that jumped to me was his work ethic, relentless motor and intensity. Tailor-made for DJ Smith really. So yeah maybe could be a great 4th liner. He's kind of small so he'll really have to be Pageau-like to be efficient. Lower-body strenght gonna be the key for him.

But kinda disagree on Chlapik. He's a guy that has to adjust from being a "skilled guy" to a more complete player. I think he can be an excellent 4th line center, I'm not the only one who sees that.

Balcers and Logan Brown are more "pure skill" guys so it's another subject. They're not built to be DJ types but my point (many other posters have the same one) is that we hope that we won't always avoid skilled players like plague because they're not DJ prototypes. IMO it's good to have pure skill players as well, as long as they are carefully well surrounded.

Ex : could you see a Tkachuk-Brown-Batherson line work out for example? I could.




That's the guys I am focusing on, I want them to progress. Tkachuk, Chabot, Batherson, Norris, Stutzle, Wolanin, Paul and Matt Murray. I would hope that White works or at least re-etablish trade value. There's some solid veterans that I like and think they are really good to have around the young core (Dadonov, Connor Brown, Watson, maybe some others like Gudbranson, etc)

Columbus would probably be interested in Brown but they're apparently not looking for a "futures" package, they want at least one proven piece.



Yeah and there's also Sokolov, Jarventie and Greig who are LW. There's also Abramov who can play both wings. Crookshank and Daoust (could be a Center) could also develop into NHL LWs. Really stacked on LW.

They are not avoiding skilled players, they have plenty of skill coming, Stuetzle, Batherson, Norris, Chabot & L. Brown are all skilled players & I would argue that Tkachuk, Pinto, JBD & Sanderson are also skilled at what they do well. I have the same problem with skilled players as most have with bigger players & that is that they are not complete players, they have liabilities. The problem with a lot of skilled players is that while they are great offensively they suck defensively, while some bigger players may be good defensively they suck offensively.

IMO Ottawa is drafting, trading & signing bigger players who at the same time can contribute offensively while playing well defensively. Having a bigger tougher team is important when they get into the playoffs & they are playing the same team as many times as 7 games in a row & having bigger tougher players that are also skilled is the key to success IMO. That doesn't mean that every player on the team has to be big, but the more the better especially if they are also skilled. Players like Balcers IMO are a dime a dozen & don't contribute enough offensively or defensively to be missed while a player like Kelly will at the least contribute defensively in a pesky way, same as Greig. Did you like what you saw last night?

 

[Oral64]

I'd like to see Jarventie brought over to join Thomson in Belleville. Lassi is already struggling, but if Roby were to join him at least he would have a fellow Finn to connect with. The two are already well familiar as team mates on llves in the Finnish Liiga.

 

[Xspyrit]

They are not avoiding skilled players, they have plenty of skill coming, Stuetzle, Batherson, Norris, Chabot & L. Brown are all skilled players & I would argue that Tkachuk, Pinto, JBD & Sanderson are also skilled at what they do well. I have the same problem with skilled players as most have with bigger players & that is that they are not complete players, they have liabilities. The problem with a lot of skilled players is that while they are great offensively they suck defensively, while some bigger players may be good defensively they suck offensively.

IMO Ottawa is drafting, trading & signing bigger players who at the same time can contribute offensively while playing well defensively. Having a bigger tougher team is important when they get into the playoffs & they are playing the same team as many times as 7 games in a row & having bigger tougher players that are also skilled is the key to success IMO. That doesn't mean that every player on the team has to be big, but the more the better especially if they are also skilled. Players like Balcers IMO are a dime a dozen & don't contribute enough offensively or defensively to be missed while a player like Kelly will at the least contribute defensively in a pesky way, same as Greig. Did you like what you saw last night?

Not exactly what I meant... I mean skilled players that could be considered a bit "soft". Example : Barzal and Pastrnak? Obviously, those 2 are high end players but I'm picking best cases examples to show that being soft could still pay. Many other examples could be taken and with lesser players... Hoffman? Yandle? The thing I agree is you can't have too many of these but if you surround them nicely, it can still work. I know work ethic, speed, intensity, physicality... all important factors but skill is also one.

Thankfully, like you say, we seem to have several guys with plenty of skill but who could play a complete game. A guy like Tkachuk is an unicorn but if you look at Batherson and Stutzle for example, it doesn't look like they'll be soft and incomplete players. But I think there is a limit in these "complete players with skill" you will be able to get/find. That's why I would like to surround a guy like Logan Brown the right way and have him in the lineup. Injecting that kind of skill can help IMO, even if the guys doesn't play the exact/perfct way you would like.

And to the expression "player X is dime a dozen" doesn't mean much to me because this could be said of basically every player that is not Top-6 or Top-4, except for guys like Pageau, etc. You can find replacements in UFA or with a simple trade that won't cost you an arm and a leg. Look at Stepan (who used to be a much better player) for a 2nd for example (still think we overpaid in the actual context and his C.H.)

I have no problem if Balcers was not seen as a long-term option, it was never the problem. The problem is with asset management. It could have bee managed very differently instead of losing him on waivers. No, it,s not the end of the world but it's also like burning a 20$ bill because you have too many in your pockets.

 

[aragorn]

Not exactly what I meant... I mean skilled players that could be considered a bit "soft". Example : Barzal and Pastrnak? Obviously, those 2 are high end players but I'm picking best cases examples to show that being soft could still pay. Many other examples could be taken and with lesser players... Hoffman? Yandle? The thing I agree is you can't have too many of these but if you surround them nicely, it can still work. I know work ethic, speed, intensity, physicality... all important factors but skill is also one.

Thankfully, like you say, we seem to have several guys with plenty of skill but who could play a complete game. A guy like Tkachuk is an unicorn but if you look at Batherson and Stutzle for example, it doesn't look like they'll be soft and incomplete players. But I think there is a limit in these "complete players with skill" you will be able to get/find. That's why I would like to surround a guy like Logan Brown the right way and have him in the lineup. Injecting that kind of skill can help IMO, even if the guys doesn't play the exact/perfct way you would like.

And to the expression "player X is dime a dozen" doesn't mean much to me because this could be said of basically every player that is not Top-6 or Top-4, except for guys like Pageau, etc. You can find replacements in UFA or with a simple trade that won't cost you an arm and a leg. Look at Stepan (who used to be a much better player) for a 2nd for example (still think we overpaid in the actual context and his C.H.)

I have no problem if Balcers was not seen as a long-term option, it was never the problem. The problem is with asset management. It could have bee managed very differently instead of losing him on waivers. No, it,s not the end of the world but it's also like burning a 20$ bill because you have too many in your pockets.

All good points, I was surprised as well that they didn't try to trade Balcers especially if they knew he was going to be waived. I like a number of the guys I see on a future team that they have in the org now who IMO are more complete players but also agree on a guy like L. Brown. Not really sure what the problem is but my guess is compete level is still lacking & they want to make him hungrier than he is, just not sure that will work with him. It's probably true that he wants out & they may be looking to move him, if that is the case a package around L. Brown for Dubois would be great.

 

[Xspyrit]

All good points, I was surprised as well that they didn't try to trade Balcers especially if they knew he was going to be waived. I like a number of the guys I see on a future team that they have in the org now who IMO are more complete players but also agree on a guy like L. Brown. Not really sure what the problem is but my guess is compete level is still lacking & they want to make him hungrier than he is, just not sure that will work with him. It's probably true that he wants out & they may be looking to move him, if that is the case a package around L. Brown for Dubois would be great.

That's something that should have been decided way before the camp. Impossible to get a return for low proven players at a time where's there over a hundred players on waivers. Plus, not very good to trade players when their value is not at its highest. Balcers put great numbers in the AHL last year but not in the NHL. A season that started with a torn MLC. Wish the Sens found a way to showcase him and rise back his value again if he was not in log term plans. But they want to compete now. I'm not convinced jumping steps in a rebuild is a good idea but last night's win felt good. We'll see.

For Logan, we'll see later this year, he will eventually play. Let's note that they are very patient and are really slow cooking their prospects (seems exaggerated at times). Look at how Batherson has been handled, he has played many more pro games than Brown. They are the same age. What they should do is play Colin White over Anisimov

The way they have been managing some assets also means that not all assets are at their best value at the moment. A package about L Brown for Dubois would need big adds, like Brannstrom, a 1st and a 2nd probably. And that would be if Columbus are FIRM believers in Logan Brown. If he comes up and put let's say 25 pts in 33 GP while looking promising, then yeah, it changes everything.

 

[Bileur]

The Parker Kelly stuff reminds me of when they were hyping up Max McCormick. Didn't work out.

To be fair I think if Max had an extra step of speed and explosiveness his game might have translated.

 

[Sweatred]

I'd like to see Jarventie brought over to join Thomson in Belleville. Lassi is already struggling, but if Roby were to join him at least he would have a fellow Finn to connect with. The two are already well familiar as team mates on llves in the Finnish Liiga.

How do we know Lassi is struggling ?

 

[Icelevel]

How do we know Lassi is struggling ?

Last I heard was he had a good camp and got better as it went on.

 

[Sweatred]

Last I heard was he had a good camp and got better as it went on.

That’s what I heard too -

 

[Oral64]

That’s what I heard too -

That's great news, given his poor showing down the stretch last year and in the Liiga this year, where he had just 2 helpers in 18 games. Maybe the change of scenery has done wonders. I'm very high on this player as a coveted right-side D. Hopefully, he is able to live up to his strong billing.

 

[Sweatred]

That's great news, given his poor showing down the stretch last year and in the Liiga this year, where he had just 2 helpers in 18 games. Maybe the change of scenery has done wonders. I'm very high on this player as a coveted right-side D. Hopefully, he is able to live up to his strong billing.

I don’t really know how to interpret his Liga #’s ... playing 5-7 in that league as a 20 year old dman isn’t really an insult - the org new he was leaving as fast as he could, who knows how they viewed his deployment.

 

[Ser Grogu]

Is the Belleville group able to skate/workout together as group right now or are they just sitting around until AHL camp starts?