News Article: 2018 U20 Team Canada Police Investigation

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Isn't Bell Let's Talk Day just an opportunity to speculate on who Bell will fire tomorrow?

Nothing but attempts at brownie points for a soulless blood sucking corporation like Bell. It's great they bring awareness, but you just need to work for them briefly to know they give no shits.

At this point the police and the courts may be moving forward even if they don't think they have enough for a conviction just to put this thing to rest once and for all.

That may be the case. These are pretty big fish to fry though, so I can't help but feel like they must have something concrete.

I was just meaning that none of what they've been accused of doing is surprising to me as someone who played hockey growing up. The evil that some men will do. Hell, even the hazing we experienced like getting hammed would probably qualify as assault now.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Well I’m sure not speculating, just commenting that these 5 players have taken a leave of absence in the last 24 hrs.

Also unrelatedly the London police have asked 5 players to surrender themselves!

Yeah I don’t see anything there either.

 

[Masked]

That may be the case. These are pretty big fish to fry though, so I can't help but feel like they must have something concrete.

I was just meaning that none of what they've been accused of doing is surprising to me as someone who played hockey growing up. The evil that some men will do. Hell, even the hazing we experienced like getting hammed would probably qualify as assault now.

What would they have that wouldn't have had years ago? Maybe they do have something new or maybe they're just passing the buck on to the courts. They've been getting a lot of heat for an investigation that has gone on for years now.

Now that it appears to have moved on to charges, the people yelling for justice can yell at someone else. I doubt there will ever be a guilty verdict even if the events were criminal.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Isn't Bell Let's Talk Day just an opportunity to speculate on who Bell will fire tomorrow?

Yeah, don't you love it when huge, extremely profitable companies who fire hundreds of employees at will just so their already rich shareholders get richer, have one day per year when they pretend to care about our mental health?

Really brings a tear to my eyes.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Isn't it the U20 team?

 

[Gil Gunderson]

There was that rumor going around about the dude that was invited up for pizza, saw what was going on and left confused.

Well he apparently stayed there for 10 minutes before leaving. Make of that what you will.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

What would they have that wouldn't have had years ago? Maybe they do have something new or maybe they're just passing the buck on to the courts. They've been getting a lot of heat for an investigation that has gone on for years now.

Now that it appears to have moved on to charges, the people yelling for justice can yell at someone else. I doubt there will ever be a guilty verdict even if the events were criminal.

Good question. I couldn't say, but I wouldn't discount it either. This feels like a pretty big step to take considering the notoriety of NHL players and basically ending their careers as of today with the announcement, but maybe you could be right that it ultimately leads nowhere.

 

[SensFactor]

Other players were witnesses, Younan wrote, adding that, “Others may or may not become suspects.”


I wonder if the "others" will or will not become suspects as well........ and who are they??
Time will tell...

There was one came into the room to pizza, saw what was going on for 5-10 mins and then left.

 

[Samboni]

5 players from Canada's 2018 world juniors take leave

Five players from Canada’s 2018 world junior team have taken a leave of absence from their current clubs in recent days amid a report that five members of that team have been asked to surrender to police to face sexual assault charges.Michael McLeod and Cal Foote of the New Jersey Devils, Carter...

www.thescore.com

 

[lancepitlick]

To this day none of us have any clue what went on in that hotel room. Hopefully the facts come out and we can judge based on, you know, actual facts.

 

[Senscore]

When you take a water safety course, it's often made clear that people in distress who are drowning rarely act or appear the way you'd expect them to. It's not uncommon for people to drown in crowded pools or beach areas because it can be so innocuous in its presentation.

I have to think that applies to other situations as well.

 

[SensontheRush]

To this day none of us have any clue what went on in that hotel room. Hopefully the facts come out and we can judge based on, you know, actual facts.

Fact is five people are being charged with sexual assault.

 

[R2010]

What would they have that wouldn't have had years ago? Maybe they do have something new or maybe they're just passing the buck on to the courts. They've been getting a lot of heat for an investigation that has gone on for years now.

Now that it appears to have moved on to charges, the people yelling for justice can yell at someone else. I doubt there will ever be a guilty verdict even if the events were criminal.

The victim's participation in the investigation is a key difference. Withdrew last time.

 

[Masked]

Good question. I couldn't say, but I wouldn't discount it either. This feels like a pretty big step to take considering the notoriety of NHL players and basically ending their careers as of today with the announcement, but maybe you could be right that it ultimately leads nowhere.

The testimony in court will determine if their careers end. Will the alleged victim testify?

Society seems be more tolerant to all sort of depravities these days. If the group sex turns out to appear consensual should people be slut shaming the players?

 

[R2010]

To this day none of us have any clue what went on in that hotel room. Hopefully the facts come out and we can judge based on, you know, actual facts.

Sure. But uh there's some pretty awful stuff that happened as recorded in videos, text messages etc... so regardless of what happened it seems very clear that there was an attempt to cover up and intimidate. Also if the Golf Clubs story is true then its game over.

 

[Masked]

Sure. But uh there's some pretty awful stuff that happened as recorded in videos, text messages etc... so regardless of what happened it seems very clear that there was an attempt to cover up and intimidate. Also if the Golf Clubs story is true then its game over.

The golf clubs were a red herring. They were in the room because the players were playing golf the next day.

 

[Relapsing]

The golf clubs were a red herring. They were in the room because the players were playing golf the next day.

Just a daily reminder to be wary of anyone speaking with a sense of authority or knowledge given all the nothing that everyone knows.

 

[R2010]

Just a daily reminder to be wary of anyone speaking with a sense of authority or knowledge given all the nothing that everyone knows.

Exactly.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The testimony in court will determine if their careers end. Will the alleged victim testify?

Society seems be more tolerant to all sort of depravities these days. If the group sex turns out to appear consensual should people be slut shaming the players?

Do you really believe that? They're done in the NHL imo, just like Formenton appears to have been cast out as done before any charges were even laid. Maybe not career, but NHL career. Your guess is as good as mine if she will testify though.

 

[saskriders]

I haven't followed the rumours about golf clubs or what details happened in texts. I think that really the only reasonable takes for anyone who hasn't done any actual investigation (ie everyone in this thread) are:

- There is no reason to believe that the victim is lying about being sexually assaulted

- We can't say with certainty that any specific individual is definitely guilty. However, given the timing of the leaves of absence of 5 players (along with all the tweets from TSN personalities on these LOAs) it is highly likely they will be charged.

- Assuming they are charged it is highly likely they are guilty. But they still deserve to get a fair trial same as anyone regardless of what crimes they are accused of.

- Other players may also be guilty even though they haven't been charged (or may never be charged due to a lack of evidence).

- Other players may have been witnesses. They may have done no wrong doing, or may have done wrongdoing on a much lesser scale.

- Social media doesn't solve crimes. The law has to go through due process. But police departments can wrongfully charging people, or fail by not charging people that should be.

 

[Samboni]

Isn't it the U20 team?

My bad, fixed it.

 

[lancepitlick]

I haven't followed the rumours about golf clubs or what details happened in texts. I think that really the only reasonable takes for anyone who hasn't done any actual investigation (ie everyone in this thread) are:

- There is no reason to believe that the victim is lying about being sexually assaulted

- We can't say with certainty that any specific individual is definitely guilty. However, given the timing of the leaves of absence of 5 players (along with all the tweets from TSN personalities on these LOAs) it is highly likely they will be charged.

- Assuming they are charged it is highly likely they are guilty. But they still deserve to get a fair trial same as anyone regardless of what crimes they are accused of.

- Other players may also be guilty even though they haven't been charged (or may never be charged due to a lack of evidence).

- Other players may have been witnesses. They may have done no wrong doing, or may have done wrongdoing on a much lesser scale.

- Social media doesn't solve crimes. The law has to go through due process. But police departments can wrongfully charging people, or fail by not charging people that should be.

Assuming they are charged it isn't a given that they are going to be found guilty (see: Ghomeshi, Spacey). That's a dangerous perspective to take that charged=guilty. The reality in this scenario is that there was so much political pressure that the police were always going to lay charges, even if it is a weak case. The facts probably haven't changed substantially since they originally declined to prosecute this case and it's likely a classic he said/she said.

I'm not saying that they are innocent, but the pressure for police to bring this to court is immense. Then if they aren't convicted nobody can blame them unless they totally bungled the investigation. It may be an extremely weak case when eventually presented in court, assuming no new evidence was obtained.

 

[saskriders]

Assuming they are charged it isn't a given that they are going to be found guilty (see: Ghomeshi, Spacey). That's a dangerous perspective to take that charged=guilty. The reality in this scenario is that there was so much political pressure that the police were always going to lay charges, even if it is a weak case. The facts probably haven't changed substantially since they originally declined to prosecute this case and it's likely a classic he said/she said.

I'm not saying that they are innocent, but the pressure for police to bring this to court is immense. Then if they aren't convicted nobody can blame them unless they totally bungled the investigation. It may be an extremely weak case when eventually presented in court, assuming no new evidence was obtained.

Did you read my post?

" Assuming they are charged it is highly likely they are guilty"

I never said that it means they are guilty. I also should have included in my post that being found guilty doesn't 100% mean they were guilty, and being found not-guilty doesn't 100% mean they weren't guilty.

However, for a crime that is largely based on "he said, she said", I think it is reasonable to believe if the police think they have enough evidence to press charges that it is pretty solid evidence.

 

[dumbdick]

I find the "a person can't consent when intoxicated" part of canadian law really confusing.

Under a very strict interpretation of the law, does that make all sex where one or both people are intoxicated is an act of sexual assault? Like married couples, etc.? If both are drunk, which one does the law say is being assaulted?

Is the intention to leave the law purposefully expansive and defer to the judgment of police and the justice system to determine when to apply it?

And once it goes to court is there any room for greyzone stuff here?

Like if my ex wife were to say that i once pestered her into sex when she was bombed, and even though she agreed she really didn't feel like it. But that's moot anyways because she was too drunk to legally consent, so under law it's sexual assault.

Is my only defence against that claim the fact that the cops and courts would never agree to take that to court? But, like, if they somehow did decide to take it to court, I'd be royally f***ed because drunk + sex = sexual assault with absolutely no wiggle room under the law?

By the way, I'm not trying to draw parallels to this HC situation (which seems extremely different).

It's just something I've never understood.

Anyone here understand this stuff?

Also, i dont even actually have an ex wife and that story was hypothetical, lest anyone thinks I'm some kind of predator or something. Lol

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Continue here

Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges (Do not Speculate!!! see the OP)

MOD WARNING: When we say do not speculate what we're asking is that we need to keep specific player names out of the conversation until it's official. We've been legal actioned for less. Please and Thank You

forums.hfboards.com