Post-Game Talk: 2018 Trade Deadline Debacle | We acquired *what?*

[StreetHawk]

Benning certainly had the chips to get picks and prospects... Tanev, Baertschi, Gudbranson, Sutter & Del Zotto (both would require salary retained likely) but the problem is he doesn't want to give anything up. EVER.

Tanev - not going to happen. Really, down to a couple of teams that are well within the playoffs to wait for him to recover to join them down the stretch. Better off to wait to move him later in the off-season if there are team interested.

Bear - deal him for a pick? Not sure I see him as part of the future, but until a Petterson, Lind, Goldy, etc come in and displaces him, you hold onto him for another year and sell at the 2019 TDL.

Gudbranson - should have moved on from him

MDZ - What are you going to get for him at 50% retained?

Sutter - full NTC in effect until the end of 18-19 season.

But, this is what happens when management does go into the season with a plan. That's why you limit the term on guys like Gagner, MDZ, Nilsson when you sign them.

Linden likes to toss around the word competitive, but the Rangers put out a press release saying that all moves are made to make the team capable of winning the cup. That's the difference between a team that wants to win and one that doesn't.

Is this management group ever able to sever ties to a player? Let the Sedins walk. Tell Edler, he has a choice at the draft, to choose between being like Bieksa who accepted a trade and then signed an extension before ever playing a game for the new team or be like Hamhuis and go unsigned into his final year and risk getting hurt, which Hammer did, then only get a 2 year deal as a UFA. Now, he'll have to go back to market for another deal. So, does security matter more than another year in Vancouver? Even if he waives, the list is going to be like 3 teams long. No different than what Bieksa and Hamhuis gave the Canucks. Mike Green gave Wash and TB as his 2 teams and he didn't get moved by Detroit either.

 

[StreetHawk]

Let me see if I have this straight.....The Habs trade Joe Morrow to the Jets and get back a fourth rounder; the Hawks trade Tommy Wingels to the Bruins and get back a fifth rounder; The Knights send a first, second and third rounder to the Wings for Tomas Tatar; the Wild get a fifth rounder for Mike Reilly; and the Sens get a seventh rounder from the Flames for Nick Shore.......but according to our guy Jimbo, nobody was offering even a fifth rounder for Vanek......it's pathetic really.

From a stats line POV, Vanek put up 15 points in 18 regular season games with MTL after his TDL trade in 2014. Then in 17 PO games had 10 points. Following year in Minny, he scores 52 PTS in the reg. season and adds 4 assists in 10 PO games. After his TDL deal to FLA last year he puts up 10 PTS in 20 games.
So, the points are there.

But, even players around the NHL in tweets, know that Vanek is that type of guy who drives coaches nuts. They all want to see how he fares with Torts.

As for the 2 guys they got today, they need to be the types who can play a traditional bottom 6 role to be worth anything. Honestly, not expecting anything offensively from them. If they are going to make it in the NHL, they need to be good defensively and kill penalties.

 

[Hit the post]

Bottom line though StreetHawk - Benning has failed to acquire any more picks than the default number they get every year (except in the case of Hansen where he had no choice but to deal him or risk losing him via expansion draft for nothing). Three seasons = one additional draft pick (excluding the Torts gift pick). For a rebuilding team (and a scouting department that looks like it got it's act turned around under Benning) that isn't acceptable (at least from my POV).

 

[krutovsdonut]

Doesn't matter. One has proven to at least be an elite AHL player, the other is barely an AHLer at this point.

i think you are confusing a prediction of what will happen based in part on contract slots, with an assessment of the two players. i can't recall ever seeing motte play.

they might give boucher another year, but between the fact they just added two new 5'10" offensive winger tweener guys and the way things have unfolded for him in his nhl callups, i think they already feel he has had enough chances to take a step and they will try another player in his tweener one way ahl guy slot.

maybe motte will get molino's slot as ncaa guy, but i think that will try to get a new ncaa guy for that.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

 

[StreetHawk]

Bottom line though StreetHawk - Benning has failed to acquire any more picks than the default number they get every year (except in the case of Hansen where he had no choice but to deal him or risk losing him via expansion draft for nothing). Three seasons = one additional draft pick (excluding the Torts gift pick). For a rebuilding team (and a scouting department that looks like it got it's act turned around under Benning) that isn't acceptable (at least from my POV).

This group doesn't get that a retool or rebuild means that you trade older players for younger ones. Not the opposite way around.

Can live with swapping Garrison to get a Vey. But, you don't move picks/prospects to get Gudbranson/Sutter to fill a void in the 22-26 age group. There's a reason those teams are willing to part with those guys in that age. They don't feel that they are worth keeping. Yet, this group feels that these guys are core players.

Plus, not being able to either move their vets or accept that those guys are a sunk cost and do the rebuild even if they are on the roster. NTC are always going to limit what you can get, but you still need a plan in place. It's fine to want to win while you rebuild, but you have to have prioritize which is more important. The Blues, despite being a playoff team last year and still in the mix this year, moved 2 soon to be UFA to get a prospect and a 1st rounder because they went all in during 2016 and kept Backes/Brouwer and lost them for nothing. They weren't going to do that again if they didn't feel they could go deep. Canucks in 2016, say, we've haven't been in a playoff spot for weeks upon weeks, but we're 4-6 points out and we're still in it despite losing Edler and Sutter to broken bones in early Feb, so they wait and wait on Hamhuis while 1 of the 2 teams he okays goes and acquires Ladd days ahead of the TDL.

I mean, given what GM's did today, would it have mattered if the Sedin twins waived their NTC and given them a list of 3 teams? Who would even want them?

Nash is set at C. Win, I'd take Stastny over them since he has some speed and it's easy to fit him into lineup and I don't have to baby sit him non D zone starts. Vegas, do the twins fit their style of play? Their best C is Karlsson. Who is their next best guy at C? TB, twins are too slow for their style. Boston, yeah, don't think so. Pitt, full at C now. Wash, they couldn't keep up with Pitt last year, adding the twins wouldn't help them.

 

[Addison Rae]

The BJ stuff was cringe but aside from that it was pretty hilarious

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

 

[Melvin]

i think you are confusing a prediction of what will happen based in part on contract slots, with an assessment of the two players. i can't recall ever seeing motte play.

they might give boucher another year, but between the fact they just added two new 5'10" offensive winger tweener guys and the way things have unfolded for him in his nhl callups, i think they already feel he has had enough chances to take a step and they will try another player in his tweener one way ahl guy slot.

maybe motte will get molino's slot as ncaa guy, but i think that will try to get a new ncaa guy for that.

You have a very weird perception of how "slots" work.

 

[Nomobo]

i think you are confusing a prediction of what will happen based in part on contract slots, with an assessment of the two players. i can't recall ever seeing motte play.

they might give boucher another year, but between the fact they just added two new 5'10" offensive winger tweener guys and the way things have unfolded for him in his nhl callups, i think they already feel he has had enough chances to take a step and they will try another player in his tweener one way ahl guy slot.

maybe motte will get molino's slot as ncaa guy, but i think that will try to get a new ncaa guy for that.

I can easily Boucher being dropped, the team is desperate for scoring punch now and he hasn't been able to stick. I say that without having seen either one of the new guys play but these guys will get a shot because there's no room for all three. Will they be effective? I don't know.

 

[yvrtojfk]

Holy shit this needs more love

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

Holy **** this needs more love

Man, I love these insider videos the Canucks are producing! What a treat, to get a glimpse of what's happening behind the scenes! Sounds like the war room was intense this deadline.

 

[The Rainman]

Benning couldn't even get a *conditional* pick out of CBJ? What a joke. If the other GM doesn't think Vanek is going to do anything, then ask for a 5th round pick if Vanek helps them get to the third round, or something based on Vanek's playoff performance. Absolutely no creativity from Dim Jim, the inarticulate fool. The whole league knows that the Canucks are the team to deal with to dump your trash and pick up extra throw-in draft picks while you're dumping. This management group nervously looks around the war room and realizes no one has any pedigree or authority, so they just bumble blindly through everything. This is what we get from an all-rookie management group. Who could have seen this coming?

Must be comfortable, considering how reluctant they seem to hire anyone with experience who could tell them how dysfunctional they are.

Why would any team give up a pick for Vanek when they all could have had him for nothing in the summer. They didn't want him then so why now would they what to give up a pick for him. Just remember this is the guy that most of you wanted out of town just because he was 33 and still producing I might add. It should be time for you great fans to turn your attention to dumping on the Sedins! It's coming!

 

[CanaFan]

Why would any team give up a pick for Vanek when they all could have had him for nothing in the summer. They didn't want him then so why now would they what to give up a pick for him. Just remember this is the guy that most of you wanted out of town just because he was 33 and still producing I might add. It should be time for you great fans to turn your attention to dumping on the Sedins! It's coming!

I dunno, why don’t you ask Columbus?

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

 

[polarbearcub]

The most terrifying and revealing thing from today for me was this .. I heard it on the radio when benning spoke and botch nails it in the provies. The utter incompetence of this management group shines...


From the provies

Benning suggested his group was caught with its pants down when it came to assessing the market of, wait for it, defencemen.
Most notably depth defencemen.
Benning:
“I think defencemen today held their value and you got picks for depth defencemen.
“I think that’s something we are going to study going forward and keep in mind for future trade deadlines.”
Read that again. It should give you chills.
How do the Canucks not seem to know teams regularly overpay for D at the deadline?
This has been a thing for a long time.
So the Canucks will study this to make changes for future deadlines and that’s fine.
But what about today?
How did it impact the prep for this deadline?
What would Guddy have been worth by the end of this TDL?


The Provies: The JV awakening, a Flash Forward, the Treadmillers, and the quote that gives you chills

 

[Melvin]

Holy **** this needs more love

I want to like it but the impression is just not good.

The voice and cadence is alright but the script is just too far off.

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

The most terrifying and revealing thing from today for me was this .. I heard it on the radio when benning spoke and botch nails it in the provies. The utter incompetence of this management group shines...


From the provies

Benning suggested his group was caught with its pants down when it came to assessing the market of, wait for it, defencemen.
Most notably depth defencemen.
Benning:
“I think defencemen today held their value and you got picks for depth defencemen.
“I think that’s something we are going to study going forward and keep in mind for future trade deadlines.”
Read that again. It should give you chills.
How do the Canucks not seem to know teams regularly overpay for D at the deadline?
This has been a thing for a long time.
So the Canucks will study this to make changes for future deadlines and that’s fine.
But what about today?
How did it impact the prep for this deadline?
What would Guddy have been worth by the end of this TDL?


The Provies: The JV awakening, a Flash Forward, the Treadmillers, and the quote that gives you chills

I found this to be the most disturbing part of the day as well, that press conference *shudder*. So, he re-signed Gudbranson to 4x3 without having assessed his deadline value? My God... This franchise is royally screwed. I was in shock when I heard that. What the hell is Linden doing? Why did he lobby for this knob to be re-signed? What a disaster...

 

[PM]

That Benning quote is painful. It’s embarrassing that he’s our GM.

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

Who's looking forward to the sequel!?

 

[Melvin]

I can't believe we traded for Jussi Jokinen.

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

Why would any team give up a pick for Vanek when they all could have had him for nothing in the summer. They didn't want him then so why now would they what to give up a pick for him. Just remember this is the guy that most of you wanted out of town just because he was 33 and still producing I might add. It should be time for you great fans to turn your attention to dumping on the Sedins! It's coming!

So, you have absolutely no concept of "buyers" and "sellers" at the trade deadline? Are you new to hockey or something? The Canucks have no use for him because they have no hope of making the playoffs, so they are sellers. Vanek's scoring is of no use to them, because it's in their interest to fall even further in the standings. Columbus is a buyer, they will likely be playing hockey after the Canucks season is over, so Vanek's scoring would be of use to them. It will not be of use to them in the summer, because the playoffs will be over. He's a rental. He put up good numbers. We don't want to keep him because he's an Unrestricted Free Agent, and would walk for absolutely no return at the end of the year. The Sedin's are UFAs next year, so yes it would be nice if they waved their No Trade Clause and went to a team in return for draft picks. Buyers want to "win now", sellers are trying to build for the future.

There's your free lesson in sports trade deadline basics. Pretty simple, isn't it?

 

[PG Canuck]

Why do they let Benning talk to the media still? Are they just trying to give us more ammo?

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

Why do they let Benning talk to the media still? Are they just trying to give us more ammo?

Because they're morons. What more evidence do we need? This franchise doesn't think *anything* through anymore. Times haven't been this dark and directionless since the Messier Era.

 

[mossey3535]

I just wish Benning would use the levers available to him. Salary cap for one. Need a cap dump? That's gonna cost you.

More importantly, he fails to acquire picks at the deadline, when they are least valuable because of immediacy bias - GMs are more concerned with the playoffs and the draft is far away.

Then he tries to recoup those picks at the draft, when picks are the most valuable.

*sigh*