Toggle sidebar

Speculation: 2018 Off-Season: We fell short again... now what do we do?

Status
Not open for further replies.
DFC

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,213
23,341
NB
Stammertime91 said:
It helps this year because we don't really have to move anybody if we moved Dotchin and Coburn or just Callahan. We have one more run with this group. After that it changes.

Adding Karlsson would be huge and the production he would have here would be great but we also have Hedman getting 70 points unable to force his teammates to get to the net. I don't think Karlsson would have forced our forwards to the net simply because he's Erik Karlsson. He adds more traffic there with shooting and creating chances but we had no traffic in front of Holtby for nearly the entire series.

It might not even take a personnel addition, it could simply be a different style from Halpern that could make these guys more effective. The problem was being one dimensional and not having a response to being stifled. If Halpern could change that and provide another element to our game then maybe we don't get stumped as easily.
Click to expand...

Hedman's offense is very good, but he's in Karlsson tier because he's better defensively. Karlsson remains in a different stratosphere offensively. While I agree a greasy-goal forward would be a great add, there's just no way Karlsson wouldn't be a massive improvement. There's no team in the league who wouldn't be better by adding, at worst, a top-5 defenseman.

I do believe the main improvements we're going to see this year are going to come from the coaching switcharoos, not personnel. Our personnel is already as good as anybody in the league, but the crazy decisions/gameplans over the years, IMO, have held us back.
 
Volodya Krutov

Volodya Krutov

Lost Cosmonaut
Jan 18, 2012
8,135
1,036
Hedman-Stralman
McD-Sergachev

Look at the Pens and Blackhawks defense core on their Cup runs, our top 4 is already good enough for Cup contention. Coaching, mental approach,etc,etc... The problem is clearly somewhere else, and like @Stammertime91 said, we're not that far away. The first thing that might be done is already to see this team step up as a group in game 7's.

We all want Karlsson, but at this point he's a luxury we can't afford. Just imagine how deep and strong this team can become if we don't give up so many legit pieces just to get EK one year earlier. Of course there's the risk to lose him forever but waiting for next year is a risk worth taking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TeslaCoilFan and Stammertime91
DistantThunderRep

DistantThunderRep

Registered User
Mar 8, 2018
19,917
16,788
Stammertime91 said:
Man the Sens are really heading for some dark times. You just got him and you're already willing to move him instead of even trying to win you're just folding it up. Wow.
Click to expand...

Got to feel bad for our expansion bros. Sucks for a fan base when you're management is actively destroying your team. Except if you're the Leafs, f*** the Leafs. :naughty:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stammertime91
BoltSTH

BoltSTH

Registered User
Sep 4, 2008
2,418
765
Tampa
I do not see the Bolts making any significant changes to the Top 6 F, or Top 4 D this upcoming season (assuming Sergachev moves to RHD), or at least until the TD. There may be some moves to clear cap space, or add some size to the Bottom 6 F. I do not see SFY gutting his prospects or picks to land one of the big names that have been suggested here.
If you want Karlsson now, then what about a 1 for 1 Karlsson - Kucherov trade. Would make about the same $ 2019/20 season to resign, and Ottawa could flip him for a big bag of picks at the TD. Does that make us better?
 
DFC

DFC

Registered User
Sep 26, 2013
47,213
23,341
NB
BoltSTH said:
I do not see the Bolts making any significant changes to the Top 6 F, or Top 4 D this upcoming season (assuming Sergachev moves to RHD), or at least until the TD. There may be some moves to clear cap space, or add some size to the Bottom 6 F. I do not see SFY gutting his prospects or picks to land one of the big names that have been suggested here.
If you want Karlsson now, then what about a 1 for 1 Karlsson - Kucherov trade. Would make about the same $ 2019/20 season to resign, and Ottawa could flip him for a big bag of picks at the TD. Does that make us better?
Click to expand...

I would love Karlsson, but there's no way we move Kucherov.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DistantThunderRep
Volodya Krutov

Volodya Krutov

Lost Cosmonaut
Jan 18, 2012
8,135
1,036
TheGreatOutlaw said:
We also have a number 1 in Hedman. We have a 2/3 in McD and 3/4 in Stralman and Sergachev. Bottom pair is Giradi and Coburn. I personally think we need to add some grit, power, and scoring goals in the dirty areas in the Top 9 and bottom 6 forwards.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Karlsson is a hockey god, but the way the team is structured on defense, he's a luxury, a terrific one but still a luxury. The biggest problem wit the defense core is more related to why it underachieved system-wise, than the need to improve its workforce.

I still don't agree with giving up too many pieces on FA, but IF Yzerman really wants, needs, has to make a splash, just go after Artemi Panarin and be done with it. He'll cost a lot less than Karlsson and fills a gap.


Panarin-Stamkos-Kucherov
Palat-Point-Johnson
Miller-Cirelli-Gourde
Killorn-Paquette-Callahan


And that top 9 is almost all interchangeable.
 

flamesftw

Registered User
Jan 12, 2018
64
36
Add to the forwards is a bigger priority.

Hedman is elite, one of the best
McDonagh was a number 1 with the Rangers, he can find his game here
Stralman is one of the best second pairing guys in the league
Sergachev is already a very good top 4 and has potential to become as good as... Hedman
Coburn and Girardi are great 3rd pairing options, might be top 4 guys on an average team.

On forwards we have Stammer, Kuch, Johnson, Palat, Point, Miller, Gourde and Killorn as guys who can play top 9
I doubt Callahan finds his game as better than a 4th liner
Andreoff, Conacher, Paquette and Bournival are 4th liners/extras at best
Erne, Cirelli, Volkov, etc are unproven and could use seasoning or development lower in the lineup

And of course we have Vas and Domingue in net

The one hole I hope they can fill is one more top 9 forward. I think if we get that, we are easily the best cup contender. Obviously it’s hard with the money, but if we can get a team to take Cally, we could add to him quite a bit for another solid forward or we could go sign a guy like Maroon.
 
Rschmitz

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
16,192
8,693
Tampa Bay
Some of you are very silly talking about how Karlsson is a luxury but what we really need is more grit on the bottom 6.
 
Stammertime91

Stammertime91

TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Dec 13, 2011
13,775
12,651
Tampa: NHL's Newest Dynasty
Rschmitz said:
Some of you are very silly talking about how Karlsson is a luxury but what we really need is more grit on the bottom 6.
Click to expand...

Because he is a luxury. I'm not sure why people would think otherwise. We have a #1, we have a #2 who has been a #1, we have Stralman and Serg as a 3 and 4. Coburn and Girardi are fine as a 5th and 6th. Depth is KK and Dotchin. Karlsson is absolutely a luxury and not needed. The notion that he is contradicts the most current winning rosters. Did the Pens have three #1s? Or the caps? No. They had depth up front and won cups with guys like Orpik, Maata, Niskanen, Cole, etc. Neither of those teams have a better defenseman than Hedman either. Letang sucked hard this postseason and missed one of their winning runs. Carlson is good but not on Hedman's level.

Our defense is one of the best - on paper. Overall on the ice, they underachieved but Erik Karlsson is absolutely 100% a luxury.

We do need a winger to play on the 3rd line with size. Down the middle we can use Cirelli on the 3rd. Johnson can play it, but we have a 5M guy who is Jeckyl and Hyde playing there. And it still doesn't solve our problem of being a rather soft and small team when it comes down to crunch time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Green Unit and JDBolt
Rschmitz

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
16,192
8,693
Tampa Bay
Stammertime91 said:
Because he is a luxury. I'm not sure why people would think otherwise. We have a #1, we have a #2 who has been a #1, we have Stralman and Serg as a 3 and 4. Coburn and Girardi are fine as a 5th and 6th. Depth is KK and Dotchin. Karlsson is absolutely a luxury and not needed. The notion that he is contradicts the most current winning rosters. Did the Pens have three #1s? Or the caps? No. They had depth up front and won cups with guys like Orpik, Maata, Niskanen, Cole, etc. Neither of those teams have a better defenseman than Hedman either. Letang sucked hard this postseason and missed one of their winning runs. Carlson is good but not on Hedman's level.

Our defense is one of the best - on paper. Overall on the ice, they underachieved but Erik Karlsson is absolutely 100% a luxury.

We do need a winger to play on the 3rd line with size. Down the middle we can use Cirelli on the 3rd. Johnson can play it, but we have a 5M guy who is Jeckyl and Hyde playing there. And it still doesn't solve our problem of being a rather soft and small team when it comes down to crunch time.
Click to expand...

Vasy behind Bishop is a luxury. Sergachev as a #5 in the playoffs in a luxury. A generational right handed PMD in this offense playing half the game is like nuking an indigenous population of hunter/gatherers. It makes tweaks to our 4th line completely inconsequential.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DFC, J T Money, Hoek and 1 other person
DistantThunderRep

DistantThunderRep

Registered User
Mar 8, 2018
19,917
16,788
Apparently we're in on Duclair. For the right price, think he might do extremely well with Gourde.

A third line with Cirelli, Duclair, and Killorn would be nice. Lots of forechecking with Duclair having finishing ability. But I do think Gourde and Duclair would have good chemistry.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Master P
Stammertime91

Stammertime91

TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Dec 13, 2011
13,775
12,651
Tampa: NHL's Newest Dynasty
Rschmitz said:
Vasy behind Bishop is a luxury. Sergachev as a #5 in the playoffs in a luxury. A generational right handed PMD in this offense playing half the game is like nuking an indigenous population of hunter/gatherers. It makes tweaks to our 4th line completely inconsequential.
Click to expand...

Lmao to the bold

Vasy was at that point a solid back up with a high ceiling. He wasn't exactly 40 win Vasy. He improved big time. We also expected him and drafted him. We didn't have a 1-2 punch in net and sell a lot of pieces to get him. Sergachev wasn't entirely expected to make the jump he did this year. After playing him 9 games we rolled the dice and for a lot of the season, he looked like NHL material, nor junior or minor league material. He was a rookie, not a 40 point defenseman at that point. These aren't even good examples. We have an experienced and established defense where our worst players are Coburn and Girardi who aren't exactly bad either. Adding a 70pt and Norris winning defenseman to a defense that has legitimate #1-6s is the definition of a luxury. Could we use him? Absolutely. Do we need him? No. Until another team has two Norris trophy winners, another #1/2, and two more top 4 guys in their back end with a guy like Coburn or Girardi moving down as a depth/#7, then I'll say he's a necessity. This would be like a LeBron and friends team adding Karlsson. We don't need him.
 
Rschmitz

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
16,192
8,693
Tampa Bay
Stammertime91 said:
Lmao to the bold

Vasy was at that point a solid back up with a high ceiling. He wasn't exactly 40 win Vasy. He improved big time. We also expected him and drafted him. We didn't have a 1-2 punch in net and sell a lot of pieces to get him. Sergachev wasn't entirely expected to make the jump he did this year. After playing him 9 games we rolled the dice and for a lot of the season, he looked like NHL material, nor junior or minor league material. He was a rookie, not a 40 point defenseman at that point. These aren't even good examples. We have an experienced and established defense where our worst players are Coburn and Girardi who aren't exactly bad either. Adding a 70pt and Norris winning defenseman to a defense that has legitimate #1-6s is the definition of a luxury. Could we use him? Absolutely. Do we need him? No. Until another team has two Norris trophy winners, another #1/2, and two more top 4 guys in their back end with a guy like Coburn or Girardi moving down as a depth/#7, then I'll say he's a necessity. This would be like a LeBron and friends team adding Karlsson. We don't need him.
Click to expand...

I mean, technically 60 wins instead of 50 is a luxury too I guess lol
 
Stammertime91

Stammertime91

TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
Dec 13, 2011
13,775
12,651
Tampa: NHL's Newest Dynasty
Rschmitz said:
Replacing Dotchin with Karlsson is perhaps the biggest upgrade an NHL team could make. There is never a guarantee you will win in the playoffs though
Click to expand...
We aren't replacing Dotchin with Karlsson though lol. Dotchin didn't get much time down the stretch and for good reason. Girardi was better than him and going forward if we had 2 ELCs next year, we would have Dotchin as the 6th or 7th. Stralman or Sergachev would be Hedman's partner until the vets on the 3rd leave and then Cernak or Foote come up.

Karlsson would be Sergachev or Stralmans replacement and given what we would need to cough up, he would be Sergachevs replacement. Dotchin won't get much time this year unless injuries tear down the right side. He's got foot speed that makes guys like Garrison and Brewer look like Apollo Anton Ohno.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Latest posts

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom