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OT: 2018 Football Thread: Camp is (almost) here!!!!!

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Hunter Gathers, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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    Jerry is more likely to be cut than starting.
     
  2. silverfish

    silverfish Not a GM

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    Who then, Omameh?
     
  3. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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    Yes.
     
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  4. Fvital92

    Fvital92 Registered User

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    Nevermind, I read it wrong. Thought we had cut him today.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
  5. jas

    jas Unsatisfied

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    Is Fluker still a Giant?
     
  6. RGY

    RGY Kreid or Die

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    No he is not. Forgot where he signed
     
  7. nyr2k2

    nyr2k2 Can't Beat Him

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    He signed in Seattle.
     
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  8. silverfish

    silverfish Not a GM

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    Actually didn't even realize that Anthony Johnson is such a highly regarded receiver for next year's draft every time I joke about the Giants getting the Jackson/Johnson combo.

    Go Bulls!
     
  9. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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    Yeah, I think they are going to at least see what he can do in camp, I guess. We really don't save enough money to make cutting him worth it.
     
  10. nyr2k2

    nyr2k2 Can't Beat Him

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  11. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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  12. nyr2k2

    nyr2k2 Can't Beat Him

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    If you're the Jets, and Fleener still wants to play, do you take a flyer on him? I know they like the young tight ends they have, but it would be nice to have an established guy on the roster. We know young QBs love the safety blanket TEs provide.
     
  13. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    I thought for sure one of Rosen or Mayfield would be there at 6 (which happened). They had to have been going to for one of those two. Which is why I HAAAAATED that trade.

    But I think they lucked into the perfect pick for them (making it worth it by accident) thanks to Cleveland having what might go down as the worst draft botch of all time. That's heavy to say considering guys like Russell and Leaf. But I say that bc I am combining who they passed over at 1 and who they passed over at 4 with the fact they turned down that Jets trade
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  14. sbjnyc

    sbjnyc Registered User

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    Time will tell. Jets picked Pennington as the 1st QB in the 2000 draft and people seemed to think it a good idea at the time. Yet a redraft would have the Browns picking Brady at 1OA. Meanwhile Pennington is mentoring the new Browns 1OA pick. The circle is complete.
     
  15. nyr2k2

    nyr2k2 Can't Beat Him

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    They're dropping the charge against Robby Anderson for the first incident he got into. So, that one will be off the books. At this point he's only facing a misdemeanor for reckless driving. He may get off the hook without a suspension, or at least, he has definitely seen his suspension decrease in length with the dropped charges.
     
  16. nyrage

    nyrage Registered User

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    You cannot go into this draft risking not getting a top 3 QB at 6 or even none of the top 4 at the 6th pick. They were all-in on getting a QB and ranked 3 as one they must have. It was absolutely the right thing to do.

    Yes, things played out where Rosen was available at 6. However, things could have looked a lot different if the Jets hadn't traded up.

    Buffalo would have likely have traded up to Indy's pick. It might have cost them 2 separate trades to get up there (say landing at pick 7 or 8 first), but they were chasing Cleveland, the Giants, Indy, and Denver to move up. We know they preferred Allen over Rosen. They probably would have taken Darnold.

    What if Cleveland had not been Cleveland and had taken Chubb insted of Ward? Then Denver likely takes a QB. Rosen or Allen? If they go Rosen, then the Jets would be stuck with Allen who sounds like was their 4th choice. There is also the risk that the Giants had taken Darnold over Barkley. It didn't happen, but it was a real risk. The Giants had trade offers to move back, but didn't. That's another risk.

    There was also the risk of a team like Arizona or Miami moving up. Cleveland could have also traded down a few spots from #4 and taken Ward.

    That's a lot of risk that the Jets could not afford after they spent 2 seasons scouting QBs.

    You can say that the Jets might have been better off with Rosen and 3 second rounders if you eliminated all of that risk. Yes, it's debatable after the fact. Sure, I get it, but they mitigated all that risk by trading their second rounders and still ended up with their top QB at the most important position in football. Time will tell if Darnold works out, but I believe it was the right move at THAT time. In hindsight, knowing how the draft played out, I think they still would have made the move for Darnold. Teams have paid way bigger prices to get their QB.
     
  17. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    I think you can. Like I said, i didn't see it as a risk anyway.

    Secondly this is a fallacy. Top 3 QB in this draft doesn't mean everything. More importantly, do the top 3 in this draft grade out as worth top 5 PICKS regardless of the draft? There's a reason why Ej Man and Geno were the top 2 QBs in that draft yet neither got taken early in the first (or in geno's case, not even in the first round at all) So simply arguing if they're a top 3 QB in this specific draft is just not a good way to look at this.

    From this standpoint I felt only two QBs will prove to be worth a top 10 pick in this draft. I like Baker and Jackson a lot but both scream middling career with a year or two of decent play at best. That's not Andrew Luck. That's not worth a top 3 or 5 pick in the draft to me. But I could have lived with one at 6 bc at least there were all those other picks. Losing all those picks AND taking one of those two would have been a DISASTER for the Jets. If I'm proven wrong then I'll be happy for Baker but that's how I graded out the QBs when I watched them and thought about their pro futures/

    Jesus all this response and I only got to like a sentence of what you wrote LOL. I'm passionate about this point I guess

    Believe me, I'm well aware of all the hypotheticals. Anyone who doesn't pour over all the possibilities and weigh them out isn't playing the whole armchair drafting game right haha. I thought about them and determined that one of Rosen or Mayfield would be there at 6 and if they weren't then I wasn't going to be upset. Take Bark, Chubb or Nelson, hit on 1 or 2 of those 2nd rounders, hit on one or two more picks from this draft. Likely be average at best next year and then trade up if you have to next year for a QB that's worth it. I expect Bridgewater to take over at some point. He was a good player in Minny and if he stays healthy (I think he will)...

    Or shoot, assuming all those hypotheticals they could've packaged their first 2 2nd round picks and gone back into the 1st round to grab Allen at a more palatable cost. I could see him developing. Even though I suspect he'll be a bust I wouldn't have been upset at the 38th and 40-something pick being used to get him.


    That's one reason why I disagree with the upset Giants here. Aside from Darnold I simply don't think any other QB is nearly a sure enough thing to be worth taking there and there's always next year. Plus with that massive OBJ contract you want to give yourself as long as possible before arriving at that 2nd contract for your QB of the future. I could see Rosen becoming great though so if a Giants fan really wanted D or R then I can't blame them completely.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  18. nyrage

    nyrage Registered User

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    Excuse my verbosity. I guess as a Jets fan for 47 years (started following them seriously at age 4...the Rangers, too), I'm pretty passionate about it, too.

    I only thought Darnold and Rosen were worth a top 6 pick. Not a fan of Baker or Allen, especially Allen although he has an amazing arm. Apparently some teams including Cleveland thought Baker was worth a top 6 pick. More importantly and no offense to your talent evaluations (or mine), the Jets obviously thought 3 guys were worth the pick. I'll defer to the guys getting paid to professionally evaluate players.

    In a research article I read evaluating 15 years of drafted players, you get a starter in the second round 70% on the o-line, 49% at WR, 50% at TE, 25% at RB, 26% D-line, 55% at LB (I didn't see anything specific for edge rushers), and 46% at DB. These are starters, not All-Pros. Based on need, the Jets would likely have selected a TE, D-Line, and knowing the Jets, another D-Lineman (ha). They seem allergic to drafting o-line early. It's likely they get 1 starter, 2 if they are lucky. I don't even want to discuss the history of Jets second round picks.

    Regarding trading back up into the first to get Allen/Rosen, that would have cost 2 second round pick plus their first next year (discount it a round for the next year) if you look at a trade value chart.

    Anyway, I'm happy that we ended up with Darnold. Time will tell if Darnold vs Rosen plus 1-2 starters was worth it. I think Darnold's disposition works way better in NY than Rosen. Jets's Management's jobs are on the line if Darnold doesn't work out. McCags will probably never get another GM job if it doesn't work out.
     
  19. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    I think it was an open secret the giants wanted bark. If the jets were moving up hoping for mayfield then imo the jets were wrong to do so just like they were to move up for (or use a 2nd at all on) hackenberg.

    Mac has gone on record saying he dislikes drafting oline high which i think is moronic to say of any position outside of K or P. That said, i think with all those 2nd rounders he'd have gotten 2 good-great players and, regardless of position, that's what u need to do.

    Remember i didnt say trading into the top 10. Just in tge 1st. Trafing to the 22 spot from around 38 would not have taken another 2nd AND a 1st. I'd be shocked if any trade has ever happened to fit that. Obviously, u can infer from me saying this that i only wanted to gamble on allen if for some reason he fell far enough for that to be the price otherwise im content trying rudolph or waiting for next year

    I don't think it's a secret i was all in on darnold this year. The jets got EXTREMELY lucky or both cle and the nyg were kind enough to tell the jets what they were picking
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  20. sbjnyc

    sbjnyc Registered User

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    I didn't hate the trade but as I said before I think they could have waited until draft day when the colts were on the clock and made the decision then that they didn't need to make a trade as long as they'd be happy getting 1 of the top 3. The problem is when coaches and GMs decide who their guy is and double down on it on draft day despite the fact that they're usually wrong.
     
  21. nyr2k2

    nyr2k2 Can't Beat Him

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    I've read a couple stories that Darnold was the Jets' guy from very early on. They scouted him from the point he debuted. Maccagnan would fly out to Pasadena and watch him play, they fly home. He'd do it most weeks. He scouted the other guys, too, so it wasn't like he had blinders on. They were scouting all the quarterbacks from two seasons back, as they made a determination in 2016 that they could pass on drafting a top QB in 2017 and wait for 2018. But everyone in the organization that met Darnold, including the security guy at the dinner they had with Darnold, said, "This guy has it, he's perfect for the job." Yet all that time, the anecdotes depict the Jets loving the kid but being resigned to "watching someone else's quarterback" because they kept hearing he'd go #1, and if not, he'd go #2. Darnold, after the dinner, apparently told a Jets front office staffer that the Browns basically assured him he was their pick, and that based on the meeting he had with the Giants, he was pretty sure he'd be going there if not to Cleveland.

    The other guy that the Jets really liked was apparently Mayfield. He was their pick if Darnold wasn't around. Third was Rosen. That was how they had them--Darnold, Mayfield, Rosen. They never thought they'd have the opportunity to draft Darnold and were speechless when he was on the board at #3. So, whether Darnold ends up being the guy, or the best QB in his class, the Jets evidently got the guy that they really wanted, and they did their homework on the QBs. Time will tell, but I'm very happy to have him.
     
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  22. Bozle

    Bozle @BrettGardnersHead

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    It only took 40 years but things finally broke right for the Jets. Happy for them.

    The parallels they share with the Chiefs are pretty astonishing. They’re essentially the same franchise. Now, we both have rays of hope at the QB position.
     
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  23. Hunter Gathers

    Hunter Gathers White guilt milquetoast piece of human garbage. Sponsor

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    And the Browns are still the Browns.
     
  24. Deacon Blues

    Deacon Blues Weapon of the Soul

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    Thurman Thomas and Messier each became HoFers in 2007. The Bills stll have not retired Thurman's number. What is wrong with the Bills, Sabres, Buffalo in general, and is Buffalo as great a city as NYC?
     
  25. shinchanuuhh

    shinchanuuhh Registered User

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    All through the process and ESPECIALLY during SD's rain workout, you could see Mac was frothing at the mouth (He was shown in the background constantly during that workout).

    Multiple trips all year to USC for either him personally + scouts.

    Plus the whole team deconstruction that signaled a clear intent to suck for Sam.

    But when they had to settle for the 3rd overall pick with the trade, I could only PRAY Cleveland would botch this somehow. (Gettleman's comments in various pressers and in the combine aftermath had me convinced they'd take Bark.) It happened. Gives me pause to think he was all in on hack and so maybe his QB scouting abilities suck. But I get the feeling he didn't do as much HW on Hack and allowed himself to be convinced by his connections. Thank GOD Baker is such a brilliant personality and had the record setting production he did. Cleveland was desperate for something intangible and with those numbers, the Browns could convince themselves he wasn't just a college star.

    In this case everyone agrees it was smart to suck for sam
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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