Upgrade your account today to enjoy the forums ad-free.
Click here to upgrade: Account Upgrades

2018-19 Roster Talk: Part One

Discussion in 'Philadelphia Flyers' started by MiamiScreamingEagles, May 29, 2018.

  1. MiamiScreamingEagles

    MiamiScreamingEagles A Fistful of Dollars

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Messages:
    51,453
    Likes Received:
    3,482
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Gender:
    Male
  2. Rebels57

    Rebels57 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    34,011
    Likes Received:
    18,400
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Gender:
    Male
    Prepare for dissapointment.
     
  3. Tripod

    Tripod Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    42,427
    Likes Received:
    14,668
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    I am a pessimist by nature but man you take the cake!

    :laugh:
     
    kelmitchell and Rebels57 like this.
  4. Rebels57

    Rebels57 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    34,011
    Likes Received:
    18,400
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Gender:
    Male
    Haha I was only half serious..just wanted to annoy the optimists
     
    Legion of Gloom and Tripod like this.
  5. Ruck Over

    Ruck Over Registered User Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,823
    Likes Received:
    824
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Philadelphia, Pa
    The Flyers have given us disappointment recently, and promises of joy too. Promises don't always come true.
     
  6. BrindamoursNose

    BrindamoursNose Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,063
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    140
    I was actually pleasantly surprised this past season with how well the team performed. I wasn't sure if they'd make the playoffs even before last season began (but figured they'd be a tweener). Was thrilled to see Couturier emerge offensively and Giroux bounce back. Disappointed in Simmonds in Gudas though. Goaltending was about where I expected (OK, but injury prone).

    Then again, I'm a member of the HWO.
     
    Tripod likes this.
  7. The Madrigal

    The Madrigal Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,788
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Occupation:
    Tattoo Artist
    Location:
    leader of the truth coalition
    So Hextall hasn't made a bad trade or signing yet? This is EXACTLY what I mean, some people would defend Hextall if he killed someone on live TV. He's made an abundance of bad signings including key ones like Elliott, and Neuvirth. He has also made some bad trades. The Mrazek trade was a bad one. He was horrible for the Flyers and it didn't work out. This whole "it was good at the time, but ended up bad thing" is a pathetic and laughable excuse.

    Furthermore, it's a sad state of affairs when Flyers fans are so quick to accept to mediocrity. Forget about bad or not for a second, how many signings or trades has Hextall made in four years which have been great or game changers for the franchise. He hasn't signed one player in free agency who has a been a difference maker, and the only trade he has made which could potentially be a game changer was the Coburn trade which led to moving that pick and 61 to get Konecny.
     
    Philly Phish likes this.
  8. BrindamoursNose

    BrindamoursNose Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,063
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    140
    I won't go as far to say he's made all good trades/signings, but I don't think it's fair to label those signings as bad.

    - Relative to the market and what was available, Elliot was a good signing (and I still think he was a good one). Again: relative to the market.
    - Neuvirth I personally didn't want, but we didn't pay him a lot. Didn't realize he'd be so injured.
    - Mrazek trade was the epitome of low risk, high reward -- hard to knock him for trading a pick for a young, experienced goalie who possibly needed a change of scenery (again, a trade almost universally loved by all aside from Detroit fans). It was worth the gamble, frankly. I don't know if you are disputing that, but I don't think you can dispute it; the potential was there for a big winner and minimal loss if it was a loser (which it ended up as).

    Accepting mediocrity knowing that greatness is on the horizon is fine, IMO. I'm good with a middling team for a few years if it leads to a dynasty later (or at least a legitimate contender for 5 years). I'd trade 10 years of basement for 1 Stanley Cup -- I think Hextall is building to a Cup, but that's just how I see things. Takes time to do that most times.

    I'll go back to my old faithful to refute the bolded: Michael Del Zotto. Was a very good signing (at the very least during his initial contract).

    His Morgan Frost trade could be a game changer. We're not sure yet. There's too many balls up in the air right now IMO to say what has been a successful transaction when so many are based on rookies/young players.
     
    Patrick Division, mdm815 and wasup like this.
  9. The Madrigal

    The Madrigal Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,788
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Occupation:
    Tattoo Artist
    Location:
    leader of the truth coalition
    You are correct, MDZ was a very good signing, That was a long long time ago though. Elliott and Neuvrith (second contract) were horrible signings no matter how somebody tries to spin them. Guys like Boyd Gordon were bad signings as well whether people want to point to their lack of significance or not. Did it hurt the franchise long term, no. Was Boyd Gordon sold to be someone who was going to be an upgrade to the fourth line and take the pressure off of Giroux in the face off circle and on the PK, yes. Did he do any of that, we all know the answer to that. Here we are four years later and everyone to a man agrees that the 3rd and 4th lines need to be upgraded. Hextall signed a ton of 3rd/4th line guys over his four years as GM. Perhaps if guys like Gordon, Weise, Vandevelde, PEB, Lyubimov would have worked out, or had they signed other guys instead the need to upgrade the forward depth wouldn't be there.
     
  10. BrindamoursNose

    BrindamoursNose Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,063
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Actually PEB is another example of a good Hexy signing. Thanks for that reminder! Hah.

    I disagree on a good bit of what you wrote on here, but meh what can ya do. They're so minor I don't really care to argue about it (Weise being the only one that is a true black mark at the moment, IMO)
     
  11. The Madrigal

    The Madrigal Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,788
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Occupation:
    Tattoo Artist
    Location:
    leader of the truth coalition
    Myself and a lot of oyher people will disagree with you. I don't think he was nearly as bad as some people made him out to be but that three year extension at over a million per year was a little silly.

    Elliott and Neuvirth were not minor signings, and minor or major a bad signing is a bad signing. Hextall and his pro scouting team have done a terrible job of identifying players throughout the league who can be a fit (let alone excel) with the Flyers.
     
    BrindamoursNose likes this.
  12. BrindamoursNose

    BrindamoursNose Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,063
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Elliot and Neuvirth are minor signings to me. He didn't pay them very much and they're average to good goalies. Considering what was out there and what it'd cost to get someone better, I think Hextall did well (mainly with Elliot). I know Elliot blew badly in the playoffs, but I don't think he's a bad goalie - he's just a bandaid is all. I think Elliot was paid to be exactly what he is: a guy who eats up minutes competently, but isn't great.

    I think his pro scouting was on target when it came to his goaltending signings - just 2 bandaids. He let go of an expensive Mason (which I didn't like, but whatever) for a cheaper Elliot who had a better year. He shouldn't be villainized for those signings, IMO. It was great business that he did I think.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  13. The Madrigal

    The Madrigal Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,788
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Occupation:
    Tattoo Artist
    Location:
    leader of the truth coalition
    Signing goalies to be the teams starter or tandem starter can never be considered a minor signing. Other than QB in the NFL goalie is probably the most important position in all of sports.
     
  14. Pantokrator

    Pantokrator Who's the clown?

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,073
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    102
    Location:
    Semmes, Alabama
    I have had 45 years of which the majority was spent watching the Flyers always try to claw their way to the Cup only to forsake the future and fall short. I am willing to accept mediocrity with the hope that it leads to a higher level of success. The team Hextall inherited was a salary cap nightmare with no good prospects on the horizon. he has fixed both of those issues. With prospects must come patience. Hextall points out how when he was with the Kings they went from a terrible team to one that used the draft to improve and build around and win 2 Cups.
     
  15. BrindamoursNose

    BrindamoursNose Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,063
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    140
    It's a major position of course, but the signing itself wasn't a major one. Lots of $ and term makes it major, I'd say.

    I guess I have to turn it around and say: Who does Hextall get/should've gotten that would've been a much better decision long-term and in the present? I'm assuming someone will say Bishop, but I have no faith in that contract personally.
     
    Pantokrator likes this.
  16. Pantokrator

    Pantokrator Who's the clown?

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,073
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    102
    Location:
    Semmes, Alabama
    Neuvirth and Elliot are just placeholders until Carter Hart is able to start. They are not a part of Hextall's big picture. Hextall is looking 3 years down the road. The moves he has made are to set the team up for success in 3 years, not in the present.
     
  17. Rebels57

    Rebels57 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    34,011
    Likes Received:
    18,400
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Gender:
    Male
    Ahhh the classic line
     
  18. The Madrigal

    The Madrigal Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,788
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Occupation:
    Tattoo Artist
    Location:
    leader of the truth coalition
    It's getting really old especially when you consider that there are zero guarantees that Hart or Sandstrom will be ready to play in the NHL in a year or even two, let alone be ready to carry the load for a playoff team. When it really comes down to it, Neuvirth and Elliott are going to end up being the placeholders to the next placeholders. Either way, calling guys who were signed to be a team's starting goalie or tandem starters "minor signings" is a total cop out.
     
    Ruck Over and Rebels57 like this.
  19. BrindamoursNose

    BrindamoursNose Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,063
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    140
    But it's very likely true (for me, it's obvious, but I know not everyone sees it that way). I'll ask this as a rebuttal: What tells you that it isn't true and actually Hexy's plan?
     
  20. BrindamoursNose

    BrindamoursNose Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,063
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    140
    There are zero guarantees that you bring in JT and he ever plays a game for us due to injury; I think saying "there are zero guarantees" is a total cop out when you can't realistically expect "you can only live for today" to be a reasonable, sustainable style of GMing a franchise. Hextall has to do what he can with what he has and what he has/had was a franchise digging out of cap hell with a projected stud goalie roughly 2 years away from the big show. Of course, Hextall could just go the Holmgren route and sign another Bryzgalov then trade his young stud goalie (Bobrovsky) away cuz........?

    I'll pose the question again since you're unhappy still: Who would you have gotten instead of Elliot/Neuvy to fill those spots that wouldn't have cost us much (in $, term, or assets), was a significant upgrade, and isn't a bandaid?

    They're minor signings because in 2 years, they won't matter. We can dispose of them right now if we so choose and it wouldn't hurt us badly -- that's why they're minor. I'm pleased you think Elliot is a major signing, though. I'm sure his ego is boosted reading these boards.
     
  21. bobbythebrain

    bobbythebrain Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    4,074
    Likes Received:
    721
    Trophy Points:
    94
    You really need to start listening to what Hextall says vs pushing your own armchair GM barometer over and over. He's only laid it out a dozen times

    It's blatantly obvious he is being patient and not blowing assets or spending FA cap to win yet.

    You think he traded Schenn if he desired to win? Hartnell?

    Again, just cuz his method to a greater goal doesn't satisfy your immediate desires, does not mean he is not a good GM. It's actually amazing for someone who posts so much on the topic of good GM moves, you can't see what he has been doing for what it actually is
     
  22. The Madrigal

    The Madrigal Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,788
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Occupation:
    Tattoo Artist
    Location:
    leader of the truth coalition
    I have said time and time and time and time again that he has done an excellent job of drafting over the last four years. Trades has been hit and miss and free agency signings have been pretty terrible. Nothing about what I am saying is ground breaking or different than what the average Flyers fan has to say. For some reason though you feel the need to obsessively stalk me and rant like a crazy person of their meds, and it's starting to get a little creepy.
     
  23. BrindamoursNose

    BrindamoursNose Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    10,063
    Likes Received:
    922
    Trophy Points:
    140
    This is why you're the smartest man on commentary and managed Mr. Perfect

    brother
     
    Tripod, Danko, Stizzle and 1 other person like this.
  24. The Madrigal

    The Madrigal Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    3,788
    Likes Received:
    758
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Occupation:
    Tattoo Artist
    Location:
    leader of the truth coalition
    Jimmy Hart was way better than Bobby the brainless and nobody past or present touches this guy

    [​IMG]
     
    captainpaxil likes this.
  25. SnS

    SnS Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    15,019
    Likes Received:
    1,143
    Trophy Points:
    140
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Awards:
    Every thread is the same debate in different language with different posters.

    Sigh.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"