2017 OHL Draft

TribalPhoenix

Former TribalPhoenix
Dec 2, 2005
9,696
907
Toronto
It's funny you mention that. I'm not a scout but had the pleasure to watch an OS game years back with Bob Murray who at the time was part of the Anaheim organization. He asked me as fan what my thoughts were on the players for both teams that night and said that who better to ask than someone who has watched every game. Bobby Ryan was drafted that year by the ducks

That's a great example. It is when GM's stop listening to voices that they get into trouble. Sometimes they don't listen to you right away, and have to hear it from one of their own sources, but it is what it is.

There is a goaltender from the past OHL draft who I told an OHL scout was afraid of the big moments - couldn't handle big pressure situations, got weak in the knees. They scoffed me off. Saw him at the next tournament, and he told me he was wrong because he spoke to a former-NHL-goalie-now-agent who shared my feelings exactly.

That's what it is to build respect and a reputation.
 

TribalPhoenix

Former TribalPhoenix
Dec 2, 2005
9,696
907
Toronto
Hockey Parents are monsters. I don't think those Scouts care what anyone's opinion of them lol. The cream always rises to the top anyways.

Agree on all sentiments. Sadly, I consider the worst part of scouting this age group to be the parents... and it's not even close. Give me cold rinks, bad coffee, and eatting dinner from a gas station because of a 14 hour day at the rink... no question, parents are the worst.

As far as others opinions, everyone is entitled to theirs. The second you start changing your opinion based on others, you're in trouble.
 

BarnMucker

Registered User
Jan 17, 2016
16
0
Agree on all sentiments. Sadly, I consider the worst part of scouting this age group to be the parents... and it's not even close. Give me cold rinks, bad coffee, and eatting dinner from a gas station because of a 14 hour day at the rink... no question, parents are the worst.

As far as others opinions, everyone is entitled to theirs. The second you start changing your opinion based on others, you're in trouble.


The reason parents are so terrible is because scouting involves ranking one parents child over another, were all naturally competitive and don't like to lose. I have noticed however that @RossyYoungBlood receives a lot less flak than you, based on the fact that I have rarely seen instances of him writing negative comments about a players, whereas you are not afraid to. I personally enjoy both perspectives and the multiple opinions you guys bring to the table. Keep up the good work, hope you produce content for years to come.
 

OMG67

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
10,788
6,946
The reason parents are so terrible is because scouting involves ranking one parents child over another, were all naturally competitive and don't like to lose. I have noticed however that @RossyYoungBlood receives a lot less flak than you, based on the fact that I have rarely seen instances of him writing negative comments about a players, whereas you are not afraid to. I personally enjoy both perspectives and the multiple opinions you guys bring to the table. Keep up the good work, hope you produce content for years to come.

I also think that the main factor parents (and most hockey fans) don't understand is that scouting is based on projecting the player at the next level. This is a very difficult process. It is easy for a parent or a fan to assess a players ability based on current performance and statistics. It is a whole other level to project that at the next level.

Also, at this level, there is a lot more physical growth to consider.

There is also a tendency to project to NHL standards. IT is not a CHL scout's job to project and assess based on the players ability to make it to the NHL and be an impact player. It is about projecting that player as a major junior player. We all know there are different motivational factors involved in the drafting of players.

Some teams will pick the best available player but some will pick the best available layer that will report and project to be a four or five year player. Why pick Joe Thornton first overall and risk losing him after two years when you can pick Daniel Tkachuk and most likely get four years?

I am sure I am even over simplifying the process. I appreciate the difficulties scouts have in identifying talent and relaying that information in a structured way for private and public consumption. I don't sympathize with parents or players going through this process. It is sport and at this level there will be a rather large magnifying glass. That is what you sign up for and that is what you get. You cannot ***** and moan about it. No one really cares.
 

thething

Registered User
Jul 28, 2014
433
11
He plays in LA, so he should be property of the Dub, but the OHL filed a claim for his rights and (somewhat surprisingly) were granted them. Gotta think he has family links here... plus his playing style is more suited for the O in my opinion.

Does this make him ineligible for the upcoming WHL draft then?

Seems strange that the OHL was granted this, do you know if Panwar wants to play in the OHL over the WHL and whether that was a contributing factor?
 

TribalPhoenix

Former TribalPhoenix
Dec 2, 2005
9,696
907
Toronto
I also think that the main factor parents (and most hockey fans) don't understand is that scouting is based on projecting the player at the next level. This is a very difficult process. It is easy for a parent or a fan to assess a players ability based on current performance and statistics. It is a whole other level to project that at the next level.

Also, at this level, there is a lot more physical growth to consider.

There is also a tendency to project to NHL standards. IT is not a CHL scout's job to project and assess based on the players ability to make it to the NHL and be an impact player. It is about projecting that player as a major junior player. We all know there are different motivational factors involved in the drafting of players.

Some teams will pick the best available player but some will pick the best available layer that will report and project to be a four or five year player. Why pick Joe Thornton first overall and risk losing him after two years when you can pick Daniel Tkachuk and most likely get four years?

I am sure I am even over simplifying the process. I appreciate the difficulties scouts have in identifying talent and relaying that information in a structured way for private and public consumption. I don't sympathize with parents or players going through this process. It is sport and at this level there will be a rather large magnifying glass. That is what you sign up for and that is what you get. You cannot ***** and moan about it. No one really cares.

Truth is, parents are totally fine in one-on-one interactions... at least the experiences I've had with them. Where they drive me over the edge is with the abuse of the refs, the outright screeching at the top of their lungs, and the ultra-special ones who encourage violence among 15 year old kids.

As far as projecting, you're spot on - people are often conditioned to project players as NHL potential, and that's not the job of an OHL scout. Their job is to project them as junior players - the junior club doesn't benefit nearly as much as you think by drafting a kid who could go first overall in an NHL draft.

It may sound great to draft kids who go first overall in the NHL draft, but then you've got a kid who you get for two seasons and they're gone... and you're left without a cornerstone piece. It has to be a balance of skill, but also if you're going to get a '4 year guy', or a '3 year guy', etc, etc... I look at a kid like Matt Strome, and I say "THAT is a four year guy".
 

TribalPhoenix

Former TribalPhoenix
Dec 2, 2005
9,696
907
Toronto
i appreciate your insights.any opinions on the greyhounds draft, both 2001 and 2000?

I've left the 2000 draft alone - I focused my energies on 01 and 02 kids this past season.

As far as the 2001, here goes. As always, I tend to just pick a few names out.

Hayden Fowler is a great great - converted from defenceman to forward, he's got a great understanding at both ends of the ice and plays a 200 ft. game. Solid skater, and has a very set of offensive tools.

Robert Calisti may be one of, if not the best, skating defenceman in the draft. Has amazing edges, and skates like he's in a rocking chair. Prototypical puck rusher, but can skate himself into trouble from time to time.

Johnny Beecher has top ten talent who brings it often enough to be a fifth round pick. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. When he's off, he's got no motor and awful body language. When he decides to play, he's got separation speed and a great shot. Can get tunnel vision though, doesn't use his linemates.

Cole Mackay is an interesting pick. When he was playing on a line with McCombs, he was an effective scoring line forward. When he wasn't (McCombs injured a good chunk of the year), he was a highly replaceable part who at times was overwhelmed.

Alex Johnston is a high-energy guy, who I don't think has a high ceiling at the OHL level. He'll get some points, but it'll be his work ethic that I think will forge himself a potential role as a bottom-six winger.

Mason Dreger (yes, that is Darren's son) is a two-way centreman, and had a good Silver Stick - best games I saw him play were in his home arena. That said, I'm uncertain of his ceiling outside of that as a 13/14 forward, and have heard he's likely going the collegiate route.

Zack McMahon is a solid two-way defender who would have gone higher if it weren't for his size. He's got skill, but can play a soft game and get exposed in his own zone. Crisp puck movement on the PP was a strong asset during viewings.
 

TribalPhoenix

Former TribalPhoenix
Dec 2, 2005
9,696
907
Toronto
Does this make him ineligible for the upcoming WHL draft then?

Seems strange that the OHL was granted this, do you know if Panwar wants to play in the OHL over the WHL and whether that was a contributing factor?

Yup, he's ineligible to my understanding. A couple of pages back, RossyYoungblood mentioned he has family ties to Mississauga which makes sense.
 

PrioritySelection

Hi. I watch hockey.
Dec 22, 2015
101
1
www.priorityselection.ca
Yup, he's ineligible to my understanding. A couple of pages back, RossyYoungblood mentioned he has family ties to Mississauga which makes sense.

Another interesting element on Panwar is that he actually spent several years in Quebec early on, so he essentially has ties to all three major junior leagues.

As mentioned, he does have the green light on OHL eligibility.
 

Jaycro

Registered User
Sep 12, 2016
531
111
I think someone asked for a scouting report on the Gennies 2017 "draft". Did I miss a response in recent days. If not, would one of the scouting resources we enjoy so much please opine Thanks in advance!
 

Dog Fan

Registered User
Apr 22, 2017
400
281
First post and a die hard Ice Dog fan! Like to get all posters views on how the Dogs did in the draft. Thanks in advance. Go Dogs Go!
 

TribalPhoenix

Former TribalPhoenix
Dec 2, 2005
9,696
907
Toronto
I think someone asked for a scouting report on the Gennies 2017 "draft". Did I miss a response in recent days. If not, would one of the scouting resources we enjoy so much please opine Thanks in advance!

Check through the past pages - I'm almost certain I put one up.
 

TribalPhoenix

Former TribalPhoenix
Dec 2, 2005
9,696
907
Toronto
First post and a die hard Ice Dog fan! Like to get all posters views on how the Dogs did in the draft. Thanks in advance. Go Dogs Go!

Strong draft in my opinion - as with past teams, I'll pick a few names.

Philip Tomasino is a very strong offensive playmaker - he was the first kid who really stood out to me at the beginning of the year, had a fantastic Titans tournament and never looked back. Can score as well, good core strength to drive the net when needed, a very good get. Responsible in his own end, and if he puts on some size, he and Akil Thomas are going to be a hell of a 1-2 up the middle for the next few years.

Billy Constantinou is a riverboat gamble - he won MVP at Silver Stick with a great tournament, and has a ton of skill and great skating ability. The problem is his decision-making - he holds on to the puck far too long, and almost always tries to rush the puck up-ice instead of use his linemates, which I interpret as an inability to read the play.

Christian Sbaraglia is a very good goaltender - you'll know him to see him with his trademark bright red glove. Has a great glove hand to go with it (I think he uses the bright red so teams target his strength). He tended to struggle in high intensity situations when I saw him, but there is a lot of potential there.

Jalen Balbosa was a personal favourite all season. Not a tall player, but built thick and plays a heavy game to go with strong offensive abilities and puck skills. His shot could be heavier, and he can cross the line from time to time. His commitment in his own zone is up and down - he's got hustle, but he's inconsistent in his execution.

Daniel Nardi was a shocker to fall, as I instantly liked him when I saw him at the Dufton tournament in October. Plays a smart, cerebral game - can execute under pressure and thinks the game very well. The downside is that can occasionally lead to a bit of a laissez-faire approach where hungry forecheckers can get the better of him. I though he was a bit too soft early in the year, but he showed more sandpaper later in the season.

Mason Howard is big and mean, but skates like a rhino. A defensive defender who is as physical as they come, but if a player comes in with speed and agility, he's going to get beat - plain and simple. If he could improve his skating, he could be a steal, but there is an absolutely enormous gap between where he is and where he needs to be. I had a discussion with another OHL GM where we agreed he would be better suited converted to forward, particularly as a net-front presence on the PP.

Kyle Sullivan is a big body, and plays a physical game and has a hammer of a point shot, but he lacks the overall mobility and hockey smarts for me to really project him to be an OHL prospect. Good coaching could help him, but he's got a lot of work to do to even be considered a possible depth option.

AJ Cook was a move, in my mind, to draft a local kid. To me, he's not an OHL prospect - lacks the hockey IQ and offensive skillset to make a difference. I love his energy, and he's a competitor, but to me he will be out of his depth. I hope he proves me wrong, but at no point during the season did he strike me as more than a player with a Jr. A ceiling.
 
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Jaycro

Registered User
Sep 12, 2016
531
111
Hocca Scouting...went back to draft day and could not find any appraisals on the Gens picks. You have done several teams and maybe you intended to and were overwhelmed with requests! Would still like to have your opinion. Been a Gennies fan since 1969 so maybe it's my eyes playing tricks on me or my short term memory is non-existent!!
 

TribalPhoenix

Former TribalPhoenix
Dec 2, 2005
9,696
907
Toronto
Hocca Scouting...went back to draft day and could not find any appraisals on the Gens picks. You have done several teams and maybe you intended to and were overwhelmed with requests! Would still like to have your opinion. Been a Gennies fan since 1969 so maybe it's my eyes playing tricks on me or my short term memory is non-existent!!

No worries, may have gotten lost in the shuffle. As with others, will pick out some names.

Mitchell Brewer went a bit higher than I thought, but is deserving of it. A cerebral, intelligent defender with good skating, and who gained more confidence in his physical game as the season progressed - started meekly, saw him get run over at the Dufton Tournament and to a lesser degree Silver Stick, he found himself at Marlies and OHL Cup among his SCTA games. As an aside, I was very shocked they didn't go for Mason Primeau - a kid who will play at 16, but has low ceiling for me.

Nick Wong is a polarizing player, and I'm on the lower end. In my view, he doesn't have the skating or smarts size to be an impactful player at the next level, but be damned if he doesn't find space quite often. For myself, I think that's something he won't find at the OHL level, but he certainly did at the minor midget level.

Lalonde blew me away. Grey-Bruce didn't have many good players, and one colleague I spoke to was high on him, but I just didn't see it. For me, Brayden Irwin was a superior defender on that squad, but hey, it is what it is.

My take on Paputsakis is well documented in this thread. Has a ton of physical tools, but his toolbox scares me immensely. I'll leave it at that.

Adam Jefferey is a big boy, and I'm in the minority where I say he has untapped offensive skill and potential outside of being a man playing among boys. Definitely a boom/bust pick.

Danyk Drouin is an absolute pain-in-the-ass - he will have a low ceiling, and make his way into the OHL with a great compete level and a willingness to play a gritty game. Was odd watching that name bar with his style of play.

Lucas Thompson is a special case for me. I watched him play one (and I know it's one) game at the Alliance showcase in St. Marys in September where he was the best player on the ice. After that, he's done nothing outside of the odd flash. I think he's got potential, but it's gonna be hard to coax it out of him.
 
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STILL IN GAME

Registered User
Apr 9, 2017
77
0
I've left the 2000 draft alone - I focused my energies on 01 and 02 kids this past season.

As far as the 2001, here goes. As always, I tend to just pick a few names out.

Hayden Fowler is a great great - converted from defenceman to forward, he's got a great understanding at both ends of the ice and plays a 200 ft. game. Solid skater, and has a very set of offensive tools.

Robert Calisti may be one of, if not the best, skating defenceman in the draft. Has amazing edges, and skates like he's in a rocking chair. Prototypical puck rusher, but can skate himself into trouble from time to time.

Johnny Beecher has top ten talent who brings it often enough to be a fifth round pick. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane. When he's off, he's got no motor and awful body language. When he decides to play, he's got separation speed and a great shot. Can get tunnel vision though, doesn't use his linemates.

Cole Mackay is an interesting pick. When he was playing on a line with McCombs, he was an effective scoring line forward. When he wasn't (McCombs injured a good chunk of the year), he was a highly replaceable part who at times was overwhelmed.

Alex Johnston is a high-energy guy, who I don't think has a high ceiling at the OHL level. He'll get some points, but it'll be his work ethic that I think will forge himself a potential role as a bottom-six winger.

Mason Dreger (yes, that is Darren's son) is a two-way centreman, and had a good Silver Stick - best games I saw him play were in his home arena. That said, I'm uncertain of his ceiling outside of that as a 13/14 forward, and have heard he's likely going the collegiate route.

Zack McMahon is a solid two-way defender who would have gone higher if it weren't for his size. He's got skill, but can play a soft game and get exposed in his own zone. Crisp puck movement on the PP was a strong asset during viewings.

i appreciate the insight.hoping for some opinions on their 2000's as well but i do recall you saying in earlier pages your focus was not on that yr.
i believe the new u18 draft is an excellent idea, like the minor midget draft, most kids will not amount to much more than they already are but to have another look at a 16 yr old will provide a few diamonds in the ruff.
like a very famous guy named forrest said,"you never know what your going to get"
thanks again.
 

OHL insideout

Registered User
Jan 12, 2016
452
281
A little off topic, wondering if someone might know. Last year in January there were reports on every OHL team about their top 10 prospect's in their system. Has there been reports out for the 2017-18 season? Thank you in advance for replies.
 

Jaycro

Registered User
Sep 12, 2016
531
111
Thanks HOCCA Scouting for you prompt response. So no 'stars' in the making for the Gens then? Maybe a hidden gem or two?
 

Ringing Iron

Registered User
May 8, 2011
1,817
323
Never heard anyone say Mitch Brewer was a "good skater". He's got coveted traits but skating would be a weakness

Also, never would've thought someone would question Wong's smarts. Nick Wong is one of the smartest 2001 players. Did an OHL Scouts Poll for our guide and almost every one of the 14 responding scouts had him listed in their top 3.
 

TribalPhoenix

Former TribalPhoenix
Dec 2, 2005
9,696
907
Toronto
Never heard anyone say Mitch Brewer was a "good skater". He's got coveted traits but skating would be a weakness

Also, never would've thought someone would question Wong's smarts. Nick Wong is one of the smartest 2001 players. Did an OHL Scouts Poll for our guide and almost every one of the 14 responding scouts had him listed in their top 3.

Doesn't have top end speed, but good balance and agility. Not going to win any races, but mobility not a concern in my books.

For Wong, called it a 2am slip - replace 'smarts' with 'size'. Agreed he's a smart player, and that's what I was alluding to with his ability to find space. Fixed now.
 

Petes

Registered User
Jun 23, 2014
3,679
1,247
Hey HOCCA, I apologize if you've already done this but I would love a brief overview of the Petes draft if you could
 

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