2017 NHL Entry Draft - Let the Prospect Sleuthing Begin

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SeaOfBlue

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They also rejected that back in the summer.

2 months into the season and it's become apparent they need a forward. JVR is a solid fit.

There's a thread on the main board on a deal around JVR + Kappy for Hamonic + Mayfield (with Halak for Polak as toss ins) and Isles fans seem happy with it as well.

I don't like Mayfield, and we don't need him. I have no problem adding to JVR to get Hamonic and adding an NHL defense man for sure (possibly Carrick since he's kind of both an NHL defenseman and a higher end prospect) but I'd rather keep Kapanen out of the deal.

JVR, Leipsic and Carrick for Hamonic + pick or maybe a prospect.
 

93LEAFS

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Very few players in this draft dont have major question marks hanging over there heads
Some have injuries others have holes in there games in other areas
Saying any player in the 5/15 range is a sure thing over another seems like a gigantic step to me
None of those players will be in all likely hood
Just remember this we don't have to draft defenceman but we're going to pay the piper at some stage
Your right our first won't get us a top line RD that's why either Marner or Nylander is going to end up going out the door
We aren't trading Marner to improve on defense. Maybe we consider moving Nylander at some point but I highly doubt it. Look at how the top teams have built their defense. Also, realize we have already allocated a top 5 pick on one (Rielly) who is still developing. The only top team who has their D built around mostly high picks in Anaheim (Lindholm at 6, Fowler at 13) and St Louis (Pietrangelo, traded a 1OA in EJ for Shattenkirk). Chicago, LA, MTL, San Jose, Nashville, Tampa, and Pitt have mostly acquired their top defenders through 2nd round picks and good trades (not overpayments like Hall for Larsson). Subban, Weber, Keith, Josi, Letang and Vlasic were all 2nd rounders. LA and Tampa got franchise defenders at the #2 spot (maybe we can do the same with Liljegren) but most of that has been supplemented by good additions, not in the first round. When you actually look at the case of LA, their attempts to supplement their talent with mid-range firsts it has been largely unsuccessful (Forbert, and Teubert) instead they have found success later on with Voynov (now banned), Muzzin, and Alex Martinez. San Jose made a great trade for Burns (trading nothing crippling) and acquired Paul Martin as a UFA. Pitt has a fair amount of high picks on D, but they won with an average D who could transition the puck. The only first rounder was Juolevi. Their highest pick in recent years was commonly scratched (Pouliot). Chicago's only 1st rounder who was played consistently was Seabrook.

I also never said that any player in the 5/15 range was a sure thing. But, there are probabilities attached to each player. Without even factoring in the players in this draft, defensemen are in general of much higher risk than forwards to bust, and it is more likely to find a star defender in the later rounds than a star forward. When looking at this draft and examining the talent, its quite clear most of the top talent are forwards. While i'm fine with taking Foote in the 8-15 range, we shouldn't do it unless he is the best player on the board.

You seem locked in on the idea we have to trade something of significant value, drastically overpay in UFA, or have to draft a D in the top 15. I think, one those aren't the only option, and if they are, I would choose to overpay in cap space at the moment rather than take a needs based approach to the draft while handicapping Hunter's skill. Personally, I think smart teams find a way to build good defenses without going to the extremes you've claimed.
 
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93LEAFS

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Thus is the second time that you've posted about some sort of off ice or head space issue with Greenway. What does this stem from? What have you heard? Just curious.
I've heard he's a good kid, who could improve his work ethic. That isn't uncommon among highly skilled 17-year-olds. The hope is the switch turns on. Someone posted questioning his work ethic after hearing it from scouts and some people may have blown it out of proportion.
 

Menzinger

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Apr 24, 2014
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We aren't trading Marner to improve on defense. Maybe we consider moving Nylander at some point but I highly doubt it. Look at how the top teams have built their defense. Also, realize we have already allocated a top 5 pick on one (Rielly) who is still developing. The only top team who has their D built around mostly high picks in Anaheim (Lindholm at 6, Fowler at 13) and St Louis (Pietrangelo, traded a 1OA in EJ for Shattenkirk). Chicago, LA, MTL, San Jose, Nashville, Tampa, and Pitt have mostly acquired their top defenders through 2nd round picks and good trades (not overpayments like Hall for Larsson). Subban, Weber, Keith, Josi, Letang and Vlasic were all 2nd rounders. LA and Tampa got franchise defenders at the #2 spot (maybe we can do the same with Liljegren) but most of that has been supplemented by good additions, not in the first round. When you actually look at the case of LA, their attempts to supplement their talent with mid-range firsts it has been largely unsuccessful (Forbert, and Teubert) instead they have found success later on with Voynov (now banned), Muzzin, and Alex Martinez. San Jose made a great trade for Burns (trading nothing crippling) and acquired Paul Martin as a UFA. Pitt has a fair amount of high picks on D, but they won with an average D who could transition the puck. The only first rounder was Juolevi. Their highest pick in recent years was commonly scratched (Pouliot). Chicago's only 1st rounder who was played consistently was Seabrook.

I also never said that any player in the 5/15 range was a sure thing. But, there are probabilities attached to each player. Without even factoring in the players in this draft, defensemen are in general of much higher risk than forwards to bust, and it is more likely to find a star defender in the later rounds than a star forward. When looking at this draft and examining the talent, its quite clear most of the top talent are forwards. While i'm fine with taking Foote in the 8-15 range, we shouldn't do it unless he is the best player on the board.

You seem locked in on the idea we have to trade something of significant value, drastically overpay in UFA, or have to draft a D in the top 15. I think, one those aren't the only option, and if they are, I would choose to overpay in cap space at the moment then take a need based approach to the draft while handicapping Hunter's skill. Personally, I think smart teams find a way to build good defenses without going to the extremes you've claimed.

I have a hard time naming any recent contenders have made a bluechip for bluechip deal to bring in a defensemen which is why I'm pretty confident the Leafs don't consider the idea of moving Nylander/Marner.

The Leafs defensive issue will be solved getting a boom defensemen in the draft or packaging multiple assets to bring in a younger up and coming D man when they become available at the right time (ie as the Flames did with Hamilton).

With expansion the Leafs have a golden opportunity to grab a young D man from a team like the Ducks/Wild ect. Management will just have to think long and hard if they want to give up the '17 1st as part of that deal
 

93LEAFS

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I have a hard time naming any recent contenders have made a bluechip for bluechip deal to bring in a defensemen which is why I'm pretty confident the Leafs don't consider the idea of moving Nylander/Marner.

The Leafs defensive issue will be solved getting a boom defensemen in the draft or packaging multiple assets to bring in a younger up and coming D man when they become available at the right time (ie as the Flames did with Hamilton).

With expansion the Leafs have a golden opportunity to grab a young D man from a team like the Ducks/Wild ect. Management will just have to think long and hard if they want to give up the '17 1st as part of that deal
I assume any decision on trading the 2017 pick will be made after the draft lottery. I doubt we trade an unknown first under this regime unless we are clearly in a playoff spot (which is unlikely to happen this year).
 

Apotheosis

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I still think the culmination of the Leafs D core gets solved from this draft. There's a chance we finish bottom 5, and there's another chance we finish at around 10th. Liljegren/Foote/Hague, to go with Rielly, Zaitsev and Nielsen (who I am extremely high on) and potentially anyone else from our system (I think Valiev and Dermott are good bets for good bottom 6 guys who could calmly fill in top 4 when needed).
 

Menzinger

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I assume any decision on trading the 2017 pick will be made after the draft lottery. I doubt we trade an unknown first under this regime unless we are clearly in a playoff spot (which is unlikely to happen this year).

Defiantly post lottery.

Plus playoff bound teams like the Ducks facing the loss of a D man will be much more inclined to move their guys in the offseason too.

Ideally Leafs pick up somebody without moving their 1st. I'd just be willing to move it for the right player considering I'd say there's pretty good odds Leafs end up with a forward in the 1st round.

Then again, Hunter is a huge wildcard at the draft and almost always seems to go against the consensus
 

Walshy7

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Defiantly post lottery.

Plus playoff bound teams like the Ducks facing the loss of a D man will be much more inclined to move their guys in the offseason too.

Ideally Leafs pick up somebody without moving their 1st. I'd just be willing to move it for the right player considering I'd say there's pretty good odds Leafs end up with a forward in the 1st round.

Then again, Hunter is a huge wildcard at the draft and almost always seems to go against the consensus

well surely you could put lottery win protection in there. say instead of the usual playoff protection change it to lottery win protected or say "if we pick 4th or later after the lottery"
 

93LEAFS

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well surely you could put lottery win protection in there. say instead of the usual playoff protection change it to lottery win protected or say "if we pick 4th or later after the lottery"
Then 2018 probably becomes Un-protected, and while I expect us to be a playoff contender 2017/18, crazy things can happen. There is no chance I want us exposed to losing a 2018 unprotected 1st given the depth of that draft.
 

Walshy7

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Then 2018 probably becomes Un-protected, and while I expect us to be a playoff contender 2017/18, crazy things can happen. There is no chance I want us exposed to losing a 2018 unprotected 1st given the depth of that draft.

yeah but it is more likely condition met this year if we miss the playoffs, it is 3/14 chance and obviously the % gets worse the further away. I think we are looking at pick 8+ so we can have that little insurance there in case, (my dream comes true and we win the lottery from 14 and take it away from Vancouver) but yes I see what you are saying but this team is a real good top 4 from climbing further up the standings (ie: a hamonic like player or better).

Our Offense is top 3 in nearly all metrics I would love to sure up the D with a player who A: isn't 4/5 years away B: there seems to be 3 D men in the draft around top 12 so we either land perfectly or we reach.
 

93LEAFS

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No, I know that. I meant if Lou could find a way to get something going around Montour and taking back Stoner.
I one, don't see Anaheim being interested in that type of trade. Secondly, I don't think Montour fixes our biggest issue on D, which is having a reliable somewhat veteran 2-way presence as RHD which moves Carrick into a more sheltered role and takes Polak out of the lineup. Montour has high upside, but he isn't held in high regard for his defensive play.
 

realgoodleafs

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Bozak is a good 2nd line centre, which holds higher value both to our team and to other teams than that package.
If we have to trade him, which I hope we don't, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised with the return.

He isn't part of the future so why not get some value for him? Nylander can take over at center and we need to slot in Kapanen eventually.

Hyman Matthews Marner
JVR Nylander Brown
Komarov Kadri Kapanen
 

Caesium

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Apr 13, 2006
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Watching Cale Makar play tonight and I'm stunned that he hasn't jumped up the rankings yet. If he were playing in the CHL he would be ranked much higher IMO, but he wants to go NCAA. His skating, hockey sense, shot, and passing are all superb, he's a complete package.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
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well surely you could put lottery win protection in there. say instead of the usual playoff protection change it to lottery win protected or say "if we pick 4th or later after the lottery"

True.

Honestly I feel most 1st round picks that are traded in future will have lottery protection regardless of the team
 

Walshy7

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True.

Honestly I feel most 1st round picks that are traded in future will have lottery protection regardless of the team

all teams have had playoff protection for a while, only team to do it recently i can think of is us but we had an extremely arrogant GM who was delusional. So it wouldn't be a huge leap to "4th or later after the lottery". Trading 14th and it winning the lottery would be horrible PR for a team
 

Glenn Isildur Healy

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As of right now, like 2013 with MacKinnon, Barkov, Jones and Drouin, feels like 4 guys have separated themselves a bit (Patrick, Liljegren, Vilardi, Hischier).

This draft is still very volatile and there is still so much left in the season to play with plenty of players who could rise up quickly
 

ChicagoBullsFan

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http://editorinleaf.com/2016/05/12/toronto-maple-leafs-prospect-2017-draft/
What's the situation in Maple-Leafs goalie prospect pool?

Yeah i know there's Joseph Woll and Kasimir Kaskisuo.
But how likely is that Kaskisuo gets NHL games in Maple-Leafs someday

And how possible is that Maple-Leafs are going to draft at least one goalie next June?.
If you was Mark Hunter and you have to choose between Oettinger, Skinner and Luukkonen who you would take?
 
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LV*

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http://editorinleaf.com/2016/05/12/toronto-maple-leafs-prospect-2017-draft/
What's the situation in Maple-Leafs goalie prospect pool?

Yeah i know there's Joseph Woll and Kasimir Kaskisuo.
But how likely is that Kaskisuo gets NHL games in Maple-Leafs someday

And how possible is that Maple-Leafs are going to draft at least one goalie next June?.
If you was Mark Hunter and you have to choose between Oettinger, Skinner and Luukkonen who you would take?

I'll take Oettinger. But you should include DiPietro to that list, he's probably ahead of Stuart Skinner in the rankings.

Oettinger early, then McNiven in a late round 5-7, since he is an overager.

Woll at BC and Oettinger at BU would be sick.
 

The CyNick

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Sep 17, 2009
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I just hope we draft the best player available according to our scouting staff.

People on here expecting to solve anything with this coming draft alone are really uneducated about how the draft and development process works. When you look at our forward group, it looks pretty good, but that's with 3 years of high 1st round picks maturing at the same time, plus a core of vet players, including two more high 1st round picks.

Our D probably has 3 guys you would say are NHL caliber top 6. We need three more. Who knows how and when we get them.
 

TimeZone

Make the pick
Sep 15, 2008
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I just hope we draft the best player available according to our scouting staff.

People on here expecting to solve anything with this coming draft alone are really uneducated about how the draft and development process works. When you look at our forward group, it looks pretty good, but that's with 3 years of high 1st round picks maturing at the same time, plus a core of vet players, including two more high 1st round picks.

Our D probably has 3 guys you would say are NHL caliber top 6. We need three more. Who knows how and when we get them.

Carrick is most certainly a top 6 Defenseman.
 
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