2017/2018 Management Discussion | NEW MOD WARNING IN OP AS OF 5/20/18

[Addison Rae]

wasn't it stay competitive with an eye for the future? We all know the future was literally Horvat Hutton and the 2014 draft.
I guess what I'm getting at is if your pissed because of the 2 fold plan then sure but if you think that we could build this team along side of Horvat to be a contender in 3 or 4 yrs then your expectations weren't realistic

And they completely and utterly failed at that, that's exactly the point. They made short sighted moves, pissed away picks and constantly pushed for the "age gap".

They completely and utterly failed at their original plan of retooling, why should I trust them to not to the same at rebuilding?

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

There is no such thing as a 7 year rebuild. There are 3 year rebuilds that are done properly and 3 year rebuilds that are botched.

Except in Edmonton... unless they're on their 4th - 5th consecutive 3 year botched rebuild.

 

[Melvin]

Except in Edmonton... unless they're on their 4th - 5th consecutive 3 year botched rebuild.

They are on their 3rd I believe.

 

[sting101]

And they completely and utterly failed at that, that's exactly the point. They made short sighted moves, pissed away picks and constantly pushed for the "age gap".

They completely and utterly failed at their original plan of retooling, why should I trust them to not to the same at rebuilding?

No that's cool. I feel this way too.
I probably could live with some dumb overpriced Free Agents and few reclamation projects but the sheer volume of wasted assets on things that won't have any relevance in 3-4 yrs is a setback.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

I don't remember whether Ed Willes is still well-connected with the organization or not, but he's speculating about a scenario where we have both Holland *and* Benning next year:

 

[Grub]

This thread is just so depressing to read

 

[Grub]

My first choice to replace Benning would be Dean Lombardi.

 

[DFAC]

Holland is not an upgrade over Benning, he's arguably one of the few GMs worst than him

Lombardi...meh.

 

[Addison Rae]

Couldn't sleep so I started reading an old thread where I stumbled across this gem, not going to embarrass the poster or anything like but it's astonishing the lengths people will go to defend Jim Benning, my god.

"If we drafted ehlers. It would result in us getting a lower pick in 2016 (11-14 range) instead of 5 and probably a playoff position right now, instead of bottom 4.

In other words it would have really made a mediocre team which we don't want, but some people here want a high pick. Can't do both. Drating him would have resulted in us drafting a lot lower, which they don't want other."

 

[Krnuckfan]

Couldn't sleep so I started reading an old thread where I stumbled across this gem, not going to embarrass the poster or anything like but it's astonishing the lengths people will go to defend Jim Benning, my god.

"If we drafted ehlers. It would result in us getting a lower pick in 2016 (11-14 range) instead of 5 and probably a playoff position right now, instead of bottom 4.

In other words it would have really made a mediocre team which we don't want, but some people here want a high pick. Can't do both. Drating him would have resulted in us drafting a lot lower, which they don't want other."

Lol the degree of mental gymnastics certain Benning supporters will go to to keep the illusion in their heads that Benning is a good gm is comical.

My favourite one was where someone thought Benning not trading away hamhuis at the deadline and getting nothing back was a good thing because it showed other GMs around the league that Benning is a tough gm who's not going to just bend over and trade away hamhuis for scraps.

And that was the reason why Benning had such a great trade deadline the year after because other GMs all knew that you just can't swindle Benning in a trade and have to offer something good

 

[Melvin]

There was also the argument that avoiding ehlers was good because he'd be too expensive now. I wonder if that one was used by Linden when talking to aquilini.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Heard some moron on the radio yesterday say benning cant be judged because he hasnt had an opportunity to build a team without the sedins and their bad contracts. So its not his fault if the teams not a playoff team bc he hasnt been given a fair chance yet.

 

[Cupless44]

Am I really driving to work today hearing on 1040 that the Canucks might not trade Vanek and resign him?? Have to have those mentors to guide the team to all these 28th place finishes!

Add 34 year old Vanek to watching the 38 year old Sedins lumber around with useless 33 year old Loui next year to another bad finish, cant wait. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Would so rather be following a young exciting team like Colorado. This nightmare will just never end with these clowns

 

[WinterEmpire]

Lol the degree of mental gymnastics certain Benning supporters will go to to keep the illusion in their heads that Benning is a good gm is comical.

My favourite one was where someone thought Benning not trading away hamhuis at the deadline and getting nothing back was a good thing because it showed other GMs around the league that Benning is a tough gm who's not going to just bend over and trade away hamhuis for scraps.

And that was the reason why Benning had such a great trade deadline the year after because other GMs all knew that you just can't swindle Benning in a trade and have to offer something good

The best one was the claim that having less draft picks is better because its makes Benning more focused on getting the best pick with the ones he has.

 

[drax0s]

I'd personally be fine with Vanek for another year (if cheap) if he's helping Brock, which may have some validity. He's seems super active on the bench when I watch games and is always talking to and pointing things out to Brock.

Gagner and Gudbranson on the other hand can be fired into the sun.

 

[Cupless44]

If there is one word I am tired of it is mentor or mentorship. Vanek has been decent but that word is normally used when you have an aging, useless asset so you say he is a great mentor to the young players or he is "good in the room"

No other team in the NHL delays the rebuild to keep veterans for mentorship quite the way the Canucks do. With constant bottom 5 finishes now, just what exactly are these mentors accomplishing?

 

[vancityluongo]

Ahhhhhh. They're going to try and give Linden the Garth Snow treatment aren't they? f***. New bet: Ken Holland, President Hockey Ops. Trevor Linden, GM. Ryan Johnson, AGM. Judd Brackett, AGM. Fired: Benning, Weisbrod.

That miiiight be an upgrade, and would sure as hell be better than the alternative where Benning stays. I just question Trevor's aptitude, but at least he can construct a full sentence...

Holland's upside is that he's a proven people manager. Detroit's downfall started when they lost Nill, Yzerman and the rest of the group that kept them a well-oiled machine.

I really don't care what the DRW right now look like. Holland directly mentored Yzerman who is now the best GM in the league. He is one of the most respected people in hockey. Future HHOFer. Give him the keys to the front office and let him find competent people. Then let those competent people build a hockey team.

I don't see how that could work... Benning/Weisbrod had purged all the voices in the room (and the organization) that weren't yes men to their vision... Benning's going to work nicely and in-sync with a "hockey overlord"? Benning needs to go... I wouldn't want him on managerial side, nor on personnel side.

Too many voices... wait no, err, not enough voices...

These guys can't even stick to a cohesive plan for their office lol

 

[vancityluongo]

If there is one word I am tired of it is mentor or mentorship. Vanek has been decent but that word is normally used when you have an aging, useless asset so you say he is a great mentor to the young players or he is "good in the room"

No other team in the NHL delays the rebuild to keep veterans for mentorship quite the way the Canucks do. With constant bottom 5 finishes now, just what exactly are these mentors accomplishing?

Eh no one says that about Loui.

That said, they're f***ing idiots if they don't just flip Vanek for whatever they can at the deadline with a wink-wink agreement to re-sign him in the offseason.

 

[tantalum]

I have no problem bringing Vanek back either though it doesn't excite me. But you do it as a UFA. Trade him and get some assets. Bring him back July 1.

You go back to what Yzerman said he learned under Holland...that the role of the GM is to be a manager. Let the people hired do what they were hired to do and manage. The manager role is to provide vision and goals. And trades I guess though you'll be taking input from everyone.

 

[MikeK]

It would be yet another feather in the cap for a bad management group if they don't trade Vanek. His play and cap hit make him the exact target for top contending teams looking for that extra piece and who are probably up against the cap. If he's not traded this is with out a doubt the worst group we've ever had.

 

[rune74]

If there is one word I am tired of it is mentor or mentorship. Vanek has been decent but that word is normally used when you have an aging, useless asset so you say he is a great mentor to the young players or he is "good in the room"

No other team in the NHL delays the rebuild to keep veterans for mentorship quite the way the Canucks do. With constant bottom 5 finishes now, just what exactly are these mentors accomplishing?

We believed in this for a long time actually, for instance Sundin was brought into mentor our guys, granted we were further a long then we are now.

 

[drax0s]

If there is one word I am tired of it is mentor or mentorship. Vanek has been decent but that word is normally used when you have an aging, useless asset so you say he is a great mentor to the young players or he is "good in the room"

Yeah, for sure - I'm not talking about stocking the team with a bunch of veterans at all. I want a lot of them turfed at the end of this season. I want the kids to play too, but I see some value in having Vanek with Brock on a day to day basis if he's actually learning from him. I'm also saying this with the expectation the Sedins are retiring this year and we'll probably sell some vets this TDL.

All that said, if Vanek is blocking a prospect from playing in the NHL - he goes. Likewise if we get a good offer at the TDL - he goes.

 

[Jyrki21]

Catching up on this thread:

1. Calling Juolevi, or especially Virtanen “unknowns” is disingenuous. Unless one thinks development at the NHL level is totally random or evidence has no meaning (and yes, that certainly includes other players making it sooner), disregarding the record before us is wilful blindness. Just because something could happen doesn’t mean you ignore probabilities, projections or precedents.

2. I think the Rasmussen draft pick is what most scares me about Holland. I don’t have the same kind of strong feelings otherwise, but that pick as a window into his process is very, very worrisome.

3. If Vanek is having a positive effect on Boeser’s development, I think holding onto him wouldn’t be the most egregious thing in the world. He’s entertaining at least.

 

[rune74]

Catching up on this thread:

1. Calling Juolevi, or especially Virtanen “unknowns” is disingenuous. Unless one thinks development at the NHL level is totally random or evidence has no meaning (and yes, that certainly includes other players making it sooner), disregarding the record before us is wilful blindness. Just because something could happen doesn’t mean you ignore probabilities, projections or precedents.

2. I think the Rasmussen draft pick is what most scares me about Holland. I don’t have the same kind of strong feelings otherwise, but that pick as a window into his process is very, very worrisome.

3. If Vanek is having a positive effect on Boeser’s development, I think holding onto him wouldn’t be the most egregious thing in the world. He’s entertaining at least.

So what is Joulevi? He isn't unkowns, but he isn't a bust either. For what we have seen he has progressed this year. It seems some are willing to assume the worst as the most likely outcome instead of looking at what is happening now. Joulevi isn't old by anymeans and is having a good season in finland.

 

[Melvin]

So what is Joulevi? He isn't unkowns, but he isn't a bust either. For what we have seen he has progressed this year. It seems some are willing to assume the worst as the most likely outcome instead of looking at what is happening now. Joulevi isn't old by anymeans and is having a good season in finland.

He's a prospect.

He's progressing reasonably well, not really a cause for concern, but also clearly disappointing as the fifth overall pick and clearly behind several players from his class including a few playing the same position.

Sometimes a proper evaluation requires nuance more than a label.