Recalled/Assigned: 2017-18 Sharks Roster moves thread: Heed recalled to keep Ryan company in the press box also Bibeau

[rangerssharks414]

Well I mean who would you have protected over Carpenter? The Sharks were in a good situation.

I mainly meant how quickly they soured on him.

 

[Gecklund]

I mainly meant how quickly they soured on him.

I agree but I don’t think it’s necessarily soured in him. Goodrow came in and played really well. Now carpenter is going to get top line or at least close to with the Cuda.

 

[hohosaregood]

It's not their fault that Carpenter's not living up to snuff.

 

[Hobocop]

I'm a fan of Carpenter, but after showing some good flashes last season in the NHL he hasn't contributed much of anything this season. Disappointed about him getting sent down but I get it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I agree but I don’t think it’s necessarily soured in him. Goodrow came in and played really well. Now carpenter is going to get top line or at least close to with the Cuda.

Him being sent down through waivers is an indication of them souring on him though. Him getting beat out by Goodrow is also an indication of that since Goodrow hadn't played center professionally until this season and a guy beating you out in that situation is not a good sign at all. I assume he'll clear and he'll get another opportunity down the road but it's not looking good for Carpenter right now.

 

[Munnyro]

Not really related to Carpenter but regarding the decision to not protecting 4 defensemen at the draft. Sounds like the Org knew either Heed or Ryan would be able to replace Schlemko (I wasn't a fan of him). They deserve some kudos for that.

 

[LadyStanley]

Giving 30 other teams a chance to pick him up.

 

[Mattb124]

Not really related to Carpenter but regarding the decision to not protecting 4 defensemen at the draft. Sounds like the Org knew either Heed or Ryan would be able to replace Schlemko (I wasn't a fan of him). They deserve some kudos for that.

It is funny that some of the loudest complainers when Schlemko was lost in the expansion draft are some of the loudest when either Heed or Ryan aren't getting playing time.

I'd swear there was someone who tried to be a calming force by pointing out that he was likely deemed expendable because he was the easiest player to replace from within. Who was that guy?

Who would be down for trading Heed for Schlemko straight up right now?

 

[Juxtaposer]

It is funny that some of the loudest complainers when Schlemko was lost in the expansion draft are some of the loudest when either Heed or Ryan aren't getting playing time.

I'd swear there was someone who tried to be a calming force by pointing out that he was likely deemed expendable because he was the easiest player to replace from within. Who was that guy?

Who would be down for trading Heed for Schlemko straight up right now?

Or it’s almost like good players are good players! It’s almost like keeping Schlemko didn’t mean that we had to trade Heed and Ryan! Having Schlemko right now means we could trade Braun, whom everyone has been complaining about non-stop this season.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Or it’s almost like good players are good players! It’s almost like keeping Schlemko didn’t mean that we had to trade Heed and Ryan! Having Schlemko right now means we could trade Braun, whom everyone has been complaining about non-stop this season.

Have they? I've actually liked Braun's game for the most part, even if his numbers aren't great.

 

[Coily]

If Braun is so bad what are going to trade him for; Futures? I don't get why Schlemko being here and making Braun expendable solves any of our issues right now.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If Braun is so bad what are going to trade him for; Futures? I don't get why Schlemko being here and making Braun expendable solves any of our issues right now.

What on earth kind of logic is that?

 

[WTFetus]

Its not like Dillon or Martin have been particularly stable either. Even with Ryan and Heed, I'd rather have Schlemko than the other two.

 

[Mattb124]

Or it’s almost like good players are good players! It’s almost like keeping Schlemko didn’t mean that we had to trade Heed and Ryan! Having Schlemko right now means we could trade Braun, whom everyone has been complaining about non-stop this season.

Schlemko isn't that good, and keeping him would have log-jammed our younger guys which can have negative repercussions.

Braun is better than all 3, not sure who would think it prudent to trade him to give inferior players more ice time.

 

[Lebanezer]

O’Regan recalled.

 

[Coily]

What on earth kind of logic is that?

The logic of you saying keeping Schlemko makes Braun expendable. Therefore, if he is expendable what are your reasons for trading him? If it's to solve an issue with current roster, how does a "bad" player get you "good" assets?

 

[Led Zappa]

Its not like Dillon or Martin have been particularly stable either. Even with Ryan and Heed, I'd rather have Schlemko than the other two.

You're under rating Dillon, as is usually the case around here, and Martin being injured gives us no bearing. That aside, who says Martin would have been taken. Sometimes players injured like this at this point in his career and getting this much recovery time rejuvenates a player, if they heal properly.

 

[WTFetus]

You're under rating Dillon, as is usually the case around here, and Martin being injured gives us no bearing. That aside, who says Martin would have been taken. Sometimes players injured like this at this point in his career and getting this much recovery time rejuvenates a player, if they heal properly.

My comment has no bearing on Martin's injury, I would've said the same thing last year. And I don't see how saying I'd prefer Schlemko means I'm underrating Dillon. I could easily flip that and say people are underrating Schlemko. Worse is that people aren't even backing up why they never liked Schlemko. Eye-test and advanced stats are in his favor.

And I figured we were all speaking in hypotheticals anyway, not assuming Dillon or Martin would've been claimed (could have easily been Ward). Just saying I prefer Schlemko over the other 2 and his presence doesn't guarantee Heed and Ryan wouldn't be here. Trades can happen (like Jux's argument with Braun).

 

[Juxtaposer]

The logic of you saying keeping Schlemko makes Braun expendable. Therefore, if he is expendable what are your reasons for trading him? If it's to solve an issue with current roster, how does a "bad" player get you "good" assets?

It doesn’t solve an issue with the current roster, but it maximizes assets. I thought that was clear. Schlemko + assets from a Braun trade > Braun. The roster would not be notably worse with Schlemko over Braun.

 

[Mattb124]

My comment has no bearing on Martin's injury, I would've said the same thing last year. And I don't see how saying I'd prefer Schlemko means I'm underrating Dillon. I could easily flip that and say people are underrating Schlemko. Worse is that people aren't even backing up why they never liked Schlemko. Eye-test and advanced stats are in his favor.

And I figured we were all speaking in hypotheticals anyway, not assuming Dillon or Martin would've been claimed (could have easily been Ward). Just saying I prefer Schlemko over the other 2 and his presence doesn't guarantee Heed and Ryan wouldn't be here. Trades can happen (like Jux's argument with Braun).

I don't believe anyone is under-rating Schlemko. In fact, I think he is among the most over-rated Sharks in recent years. He was good enough defensively for a bottom pairing guy and was a good puck mover, but was not very good offensively (e.g. Vlasic, Braun, and Demelo bested his rate from last season). He also has the shadow of having been bounced around and benched, which is a red flag.

In terms of asset management, let's keep in mind he only fetched a 5th from MTL. That is probably a better indication of perceived value around the league than eye tests or fancy stats.

Heed doesn't give up much if anything defensively, is a better puck mover, and is a better offensive producer during his short NFL career. Not that it matters much under the current salary structure, but he also does more for less money.

The Sharks were going to lose a player in the expansion draft, and IMO he was a fine one to lose because his presence would have potentially blocked the development of better players (addition by subtraction).

 

[Led Zappa]

It doesn’t solve an issue with the current roster, but it maximizes assets. I thought that was clear. Schlemko + assets from a Braun trade > Braun. The roster would not be notably worse with Schlemko over Braun.

Yes it would.

 

[Vaasa]

Or it’s almost like good players are good players! It’s almost like keeping Schlemko didn’t mean that we had to trade Heed and Ryan! Having Schlemko right now means we could trade Braun, whom everyone has been complaining about non-stop this season.

Why would anyone be complaining about Braun? He's playing 25+ minutes a night of mostly good (if not his usual mostly great) defense, while also being 7th on the team in points. He's tied with Donskoi for points lead after the Big 5. And yes, it's not a great stat, but Braun also leads the team in +/- right now (tied with Vlasic of course). If anything, Braun has made himself more valuable to the team IMO.

 

[WTFetus]

I don't believe anyone is under-rating Schlemko. In fact, I think he is among the most over-rated Sharks in recent years. He was good enough defensively for a bottom pairing guy and was a good puck mover, but was not very good offensively (e.g. Vlasic, Braun, and Demelo bested his rate from last season). He also has the shadow of having been bounced around and benched, which is a red flag.

In terms of asset management, let's keep in mind he only fetched a 5th from MTL. That is probably a better indication of perceived value around the league than eye tests or fancy stats.

Heed doesn't give up much if anything defensively, is a better puck mover, and is a better offensive producer during his short NFL career. Not that it matters much under the current salary structure, but he also does more for less money.

The Sharks were going to lose a player in the expansion draft, and IMO he was a fine one to lose because his presence would have potentially blocked the development of better players (addition by subtraction).

And again, still refusing actually provide evidence of why Schlemko is "overrated" or not very good. Seriously, it's no different than the posters arguing that Demelo is a better 3rd pairing than Ryan or Heed but refusing to say why.

1) Braun did not "best his rate" from last season (and you seriously can't be arguing for Demelo when he only played 25 games). Not to mention Braun and Vlasic are unrelated to this conversation. My scenario is replacing Dillon in the current line-up. Schlemko was no worse than Dillon defensively, is an immensely better skater, and is a better puck-mover. Being able to efficiently skate or pass the puck out of the zone is great defense in itself. Also for a guy who "is not very good offensively", he still outproduced Dillon.

2) Please, being bounced around is probably the most overly-dramatic thing only used by Schlemko detractors. He was on Arizona for a number of years. Waived twice (who knows why Dallas even claimed him when they had a full roster) and finished that same season with Calgary. He signed a 1 year contract in New Jersey, and then signed in San Jose. All that "shuffling around" only happened in 1 weird season. The rest is leaving on his own accord to a team of his choice (reportedly had a number of suitors the off-season the Sharks got him). Would you consider Dominic Moore, who in all accounts is a great person, having a "shadow" since he's actually been traded a number of times and have been on a lot more teams?

3) So we're going by perceived value than actual stats now? Lets not forget Vegas put themselves in a terrible place by overdrafting defensemen and not picking the BPA from a lot of teams, which completely skews everyone's value. It put them in a tough spot where they had to unload, and the other 30 teams knew it. Might as well just argue that James Neal had no value last off-season because Nashville just let him get claimed.

4) Your last sentence disregards/ignores the point of the argument. Our entire argument is that Schlemko's presence doesn't guarantee that Heed or Ryan wouldn't be playing.
Vlasic - Braun
Burns - Ryan
Schlemko - Heed
is a great core and I'd argue it's better than the one we are currently icing. Schlemko's loss was acceptable because of Ryan and Heed, but let's not rewrite history or stats by arguing the Sharks are better off by doing so.

 

[Groo]

More often than not, Braun seems to be the most active defender (own zone) on the ice for us

 

[hohosaregood]

Schlemko was effective in his role but that's the only thing you can say definitively. The main concern against him right now is that Heed and Demelo has been playing in the same role as Schlemko has and is doing just as well and have, for the most part, been just as effective and arguably more so. Heed's definitely good but it brings up the question of how much Deboer's defensive deployment affects their performance.