2016 ATD Milt Dunnel Cup Finals: Vancouver Millionaires vs. Pittsburgh AC

[ResilientBeast]

This last weekend was a holiday weekend here in the States for Memorial Day, a lot of people traveling and whatnot, that may explain RS's absence...I'd be inclined to give him a little more time

I'm saying like friday voting opens

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I'm saying like friday voting opens

I'd be more comfortable with Saturday at midnight...that gives one full weekend day before voting starts for these guys to make arguments.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I'd be more comfortable with Saturday at midnight...that gives one full weekend day before voting starts for these guys to make arguments.

That's a good idea then

Voting opens on Saturday at midnight

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

That's a good idea then

Voting opens on Saturday at midnight

Sturm and Seventies, who is taking votes for the Final? Does this schedule work?

 

[Sturminator]

Sturm and Seventies, who is taking votes for the Final? Does this schedule work?

I don't really care. seventies can take the votes if he wants them, but if he says nothing, I will take them. We can get all that settled by Saturday.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Sorry I've been a terrible finals participant, just been too busy and unable to chip in.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

First Lines:

I think this one should be unanimous in favour of Van. We have arguably a top three line in the league, and the three of them are absolutely the strength and the engine this year and the biggest reason we have made it this far.

Jagr>Boucher
Firsov>Hull
Delvecchio>>Krutov

Or:

Jagr>>Hull
Boucher>Delvecchio
Firsov>>>Krutov

I also consider Krutov a fairly weak 1st liner overall, there is no weak pin on Van's top line.

Ultimately, I agree with your assessment, but want to break it out a bit.

Vsx 7
Jagr - 114.2
Boucher - 95.1
Hull - 88
Delvecchio 84.8

Delvecchio was Mr. Consistent and a solid defensive player, but he was the weakest scorer of the group. Hull has the worst non-scoring attributes of this group on the other hand.

Firsov International Top 10s - 1, 1, 1, 1, 5, 7, 8, 10 in nine tournaments
Krutov International Top 10s - 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 8, 8, 9 in thirteen tournaments

Taking off the same finishes you have:
Firsov - 1, 1, 7, 10
Krutov - 2, 2, 3, 8, 9

Firsov Soviet League Top 10s - 1st, 1st, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 6th, 9th, 9th in sixteen seasons
Krutov Soviet League Top 10s - 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, 8th in twelve seasons

Taking off the same finishes you have:
Firsov - 1, 1, 1, 6, 6, 9, 9
Krutov - 2, 2, 2, 2, 8

I agree Firsov is a beast, but Krutov's career in Europe has really been underrated based on his post-prime time in the NHL, and the PED concern that was addressed within the past year.

Second lines:

That moment when you admit defeat. There weren't many better second lines in the league than mine, but Rob constructed one of them that was.

Bathgate>Denneny
Barry>Fredrickson
Fleury>Foyston

I do think Fleury has the higher skill set, but Foyston gets the edge on defensive positioning, so their value as a third wheel is probably pretty close.

These are two absolutely frighteningly good second lines, and I don't think their afvantage in this one makes or breaks a 7 game series for them.

Again, I agree with your analysis here. Just to break it out a bit...

VsX 7
Bathgate - 101.1
Barry - 89.6
Fleury - 82

Top 5s in points
Denneny
NHA - 5
NHL (split) - 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4
NHL (consolidated) - 2

Fredrickson
PCHA - 1, 1, 2, 3
WCHL - 5
NHL (consolidated) - 4

Foyston
PCHA - 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4

In the end, I agree you have the better top line and I have the better second line.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

To get some discussion going in the meantime however, I'll take a look at our defensemen.

Top pairs

|AST Records|HoH Rank
Harvey|1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 4, 10|2
Clancy|1, 1-2*, 3, 3, 5|12

Clancy's 1-2* seasons comes from the unofficial 1927 AST where he made the first team with Dunc Munro. He had a number of other seasons before official AST voting where he had high Hart Trophy finishes. All that said, Harvey is still Harvey and ahead of Clancy.

|AST Records|HoH Rank
Goodfellow|2, 2, 3, 5, 5; 3 (center), 4 (center)|43
Johnson|1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9; 5-11?|52

As I've said before Goodfellow is hurt by his time playing forward, with split vote years, but Gerard is supreme. Johnson's early career was during the years we have limited voting, but he did make one all-star game on merit hence the 5-11? finish. Taking it all in, Goodfellow has an edge over Johnson, but smaller than ours #1s.

I believe Pittsburgh has better defenders at #1 and #2, and think with Harvey's star power a clearly better top pair.

Second Pairs

Boucher was an elite scorer, received some Hart Trophy recognition, and made the second team in the 1925 MacLean's all-time team. Simpson had the WCHL recognition, and made the third team in the 1925 MacLean's all-time team. Boucher has a clear advantage here over his Western peer.

|AST Records
Goldham|3, 5, 7, 8; 7?, 5-11?
Vasko|3, 4, 11, 12

Goldham and Vaskowere defensive-minded guys, but I have Goldham ahead. Vasko has a lesser AST record, and no ASGs made on merit in the period of limited voting unlike Goldham.

Based on these comparisons, I believe Pittsburgh has a clear advantage on second pairs, again with a notable advantage in our #3s.


Third Pairs
Rowe - 3x 1st PCHA AST, 2x 2nd PCHA AST
Seiling AST Voting: 7, 8, 10

Our defensive-minded guys, Rowe has the impressive PCHA record to have the advantage over Seiling.

Schneider AST Voting: 6, 7, 10, 12, 13
Sologubov - 7x Soviet League AST, 3x WC Best Defender

Schneider has a solid voting record from an era where higher point totals were rewarded by voters. I've posted a lot of color on Solly previously. There's no simple comparison here, but I do believe that Solly should be valued higher.

Calling our third pairs depends what you make of the comparisons of our #6s. I think Rowe is better than Seiling, but I also prefer Sologubov to Schneider.

To recap individual advantages, as I see them:
1 - PIT
2 - PIT
3 - PIT
4 - PIT
5 - VAN
6 - PIT

 

[seventieslord]

I don't really care. seventies can take the votes if he wants them, but if he says nothing, I will take them. We can get all that settled by Saturday.

please take them. Very busy week for me with family stuff.

 

[VanIslander]

I will vote this weekend!

 

[Iceman]

Mee 2

 

[Sturminator]

please take them. Very busy week for me with family stuff.

No problem. I will take voting for the finals. Voters may begin submitting votes now.

 

[Sturminator]

Ok peeps, voting for the finals is now open. Send all votes to me.

 

[Sturminator]

ATD Finals Results:

Pittsburgh AC defeats Vancouver Millionaires in 5 games.

Three Stars:
1. Harvey
2. Jagr
3. Bathgate

 

[Iceman]

Great teams fellas!

Back to back champ eh? Congrats.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Congratulation to one of the greatest GM out there (and currently the best), Rob Scuderi.

 

[Elvis P]

Congrats, Rob

 

[Sturminator]

Congrats, Rob. I'm really happy to see Andy Bathgate finally end up on a winner.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Congrats RS, you build a great team!

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Wow, so honored to pull out the win here. You built such a strong team MB! I'm sorry my busyness prevented more back and forth, but I'm glad I could face a strong opponent.

Thanks to everyone who stuck it out and voted all the way.

 

[jarek]

Wow, so honored to pull out the win here. You built such a strong team MB! I'm sorry my business prevented more back and forth, but I'm glad I could face a strong opponent.

Thanks to everyone who stuck it out and voted all the way.

And those people ought to get recognized for that in some way or another in the next draft..

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Wow, so honored to pull out the win here. You built such a strong team MB! I'm sorry my business prevented more back and forth, but I'm glad I could face a strong opponent.

Thanks to everyone who stuck it out and voted all the way.

Congrats on back to back titles, you built just another awesome team, and I have no shame in losing.

It was a fun ride thanks to everyone who stuck it out in the ATD this year.