2015-2016 Minnesota Wild Discussion II

[Wild11MN]

Russo's podcast, he basically says exactly what we've been talking about. Just because the team was winning, they don't want to "mess things up".

There are emotions and egos to be concerned with. And I'm going to repeat myself, if Yeo can't manage them AND improve a glaring weakness of the team, he's not the right coach for this team.

Alright, thanks, haven't listened to it.

I agree with the second paragraph. I just don't think it's fair to blame the players, when we haven't heard anything of substance about anyone complaining. And I don't think it's fair to blame Yeo (yet), when he stuck with a middle-of-the-pack PP through a massive winning streak.

If the PP is awful to start the year and there are no changes, I'll agree completely. But I think we need to hold off on the criticism about the upcoming year before it has even started.

 

[TaLoN]

Alright, thanks, haven't listened to it.

I agree with the second paragraph. I just don't think it's fair to blame the players, when we haven't heard anything of substance about anyone complaining. And I don't think it's fair to blame Yeo (yet), when he stuck with a middle-of-the-pack PP through a massive winning streak.

If the PP is awful to start the year and there are no changes, I'll agree completely. But I think we need to hold off on the criticism about the upcoming year before it has even started.

Pretty sure it was mid pack during the losing streak and back to bottom of the barrel during the winning streak.

 

[Arturia Pendragon]

Sorry, I should've provided the link to Russo's podcast and the Star-tribune CF interview in my post as reference (thanks Vashanesh!).
And I realize this topic was probably discussed at great length over the Summer here (I've been away from HFboards largely so forgive me).

I guess what irked me so much today was the tone Russo had at the end of his podcast (about ego, emotional investment, etc...) when discussing the PP. Almost like "wow, I'm surprised more fans didn't realize this..." or "fans will have to accept this because it is how it is".
I'm sorry, but everything in me just wanted to say "oh really? You mean to tell me that grown men making millions can't set aside their egos for a team?". I just had this idea that the Wild locker room might as well put the dollar figure of each players payroll next to their locker name tag, just to make clear whose really in charge.
I don't know, this whole ego thing is just so childish to me. It's almost more than just the PP for me, but simply knowing that such a dynamic exists. I mean, get over yourselves geez...

What can you do though, I suppose?

 

[Wild11MN]

Pretty sure it was mid pack during the losing streak and back to bottom of the barrel during the winning streak.

Hmm, I don't remember.

Regardless, take away the 0-28 start, and it was 17.9%, good for 17th.

Is it fair to completely disregard the start? No. We still started 0-28. But it was clearly in the 'average' range for the last 2/3 of the season, so it wasn't trending in the wrong direction at the end of the year.

Should our PP be better than average with the players we have? Yes. But that's a different argument.

 

[Wild11MN]

I don't know, this whole ego thing is just so childish to me. It's almost more than just the PP for me, but simply knowing that such a dynamic exists. I mean, get over yourselves geez...

What can you do though, I suppose?

We don't know this is even true. But people can believe whatever they want. I'm clearly not convincing anyone otherwise and I'm not changing my mind until I hear more proof.

 

[TaLoN]

Hmm, I don't remember.

Regardless, take away the 0-28 start, and it was 17.9%, good for 17th.

Is it fair to completely disregard the start? No. We still started 0-28. But it was clearly in the 'average' range for the last 2/3 of the season, so it wasn't trending in the wrong direction at the end of the year.

Should our PP be better than average with the players we have? Yes. But that's a different argument.

17th is still the wrong side of average, even without the 0-28 start.

 

[Wild11MN]

17th is still the wrong side of average, even without the 0-28 start.

It's about average. Close enough. I said in the average range.

 

[Vashanesh]

Sorry, I should've provided the link to Russo's podcast and the Star-tribune CF interview in my post as reference (thanks Vashanesh!).
And I realize this topic was probably discussed at great length over the Summer here (I've been away from HFboards largely so forgive me).

I guess what irked me so much today was the tone Russo had at the end of his podcast (about ego, emotional investment, etc...) when discussing the PP. Almost like "wow, I'm surprised more fans didn't realize this..." or "fans will have to accept this because it is how it is".
I'm sorry, but everything in me just wanted to say "oh really? You mean to tell me that grown men making millions can't set aside their egos for a team?". I just had this idea that the Wild locker room might as well put the dollar figure of each players payroll next to their locker name tag, just to make clear whose really in charge.
I don't know, this whole ego thing is just so childish to me. It's almost more than just the PP for me, but simply knowing that such a dynamic exists. I mean, get over yourselves geez...

What can you do though, I suppose?

I'm with you.

This is the worst part of the year, for me. It's near enough to hockey that we start getting news, but it's still way too long to wait.

 

[123TripleDoge]

You'd think now would be the perfect time for Adam Oates... especially with Sydor most likely on the way out

 

[TaLoN]

It's about average. Close enough. I said in the average range.

I never said it wasn't, I was just stating IMO that even for average it's on the wrong side of average.

If I was coach, I'd be doing whatever I could to try to improve it. Bottom half of the league is not the place to be.

 

[Avder]

It'll never get pulled.

*sigh*

Yeah

You'd think now would be the perfect time for Adam Oates... especially with Sydor most likely on the way out

Would sure be nice, but as was said last offseason, he's probably trying to hold out for another head caching gig.

 

[hirawl]

The PP just has to be simplified. Play to our strengths. We don't really have elite one-timing bombs on the hash marks who to set up. What we do have is two of the game's very best around the crease in Parise and Vanek. These guys need quality pucks from the point. Pucks shot low for them to get the deflects and/or create rebounds. These two will get it done.

It was way too stationary, too slow. Looking mostly at you Suter. It was like they moved the puck safe and sound to see if a scoring chance opens up. It does not. The elite one-timers on PP like Ovi and Stamkos don't really get that open in the very sense. They've just got the unbelievable skill of shooting the puck with high accuracy and velocity from an often very awkward body position.

The puck needs to be moved on an agenda. That's to create a quality chance to get it to the net. It's just so simple. Don't just slow it down and pass the puck around for the sake of it. PP is not about puck possession, it's about making most of the given advantage and you're on the clock, baby. The more pucks you put to the net, the more likely you score. Delivering the puck to the net is always the right thing to do. It's also that the longer you run the pass it- settle it, settle it, pass it - settle it, settle it, pass it boredom, the poorer a decision you're bound to make. We all see it happen all the time.

Nothing wrong with safe passes with time and space. It's just that often it comes with a little bit of inaccuracy in the pass. You pass to a territory rather than to the tape. That's sucking the life out of the purpose why you're passing the puck in the first place. The next guy has to settle it again instead of a quick pass back or to the next guy which would be the key to create those lanes. I actually like Koivu on the PP because he's such a good passer. Don't mean the creativity but the quality of the pass. He too just needs to act upon a chance of delivering the puck to the net.

And you can actually deliver the puck to the net from the half wall as well. It does not always have to be from the point. A lot of PP goals are scored today with redirects in the high slot and often from pucks from the half wall. 1-3-1 PP formation has proven to be very effective in today's game. When you have the three guys moving the puck quick and crisp and accurate the lane for a quality deliver to the net opens up pretty quickly. With the two guys hopefully creating high screens and low screens and possible deflections from high slot or down low it's a nightmare for the goalie. Getting neck burn from the red light.

Sorry about the long post of nothing new to us HF Wilders. Well I hope I emphasised the importance of getting the puck to the net

 

[TaLoN]

^Dumba has a bomb and he needs to be permitted to unleash it on the top PP unit.

 

[hirawl]

^Dumba has a bomb and he needs to be permitted to unleash it on the top PP unit.

If he gets it through, absolutely.

 

[Wild11MN]

@long post

You nailed it. That's the real problem with the PP. And it's both PP lines, not just the top one.

 

[57special]

Vanek is one of the games best around the crease? This isn't 2009.

Just get Pominville off the point, and NEVER let him back on it. With Dumba, Scandella, and Spurgeon on the team there is absolutely no excuse for having him on there.

Unlike most here, I am less certain about moving Suter off the PP until I see how good the other Dmen are at zone entry. Suter is elite at that. We take it for granted, but there is nothing worse than a PP that can't even set up in the Ozone. That isn't our problem. Our problem is poor, overly deliberate puck movement, which both Suter and Koivu are guilty of.

Keep Suter on the PP till they enter the zone, then change him?

Oh, and Suter's shot is mediocre( and that's being kind). How can a strong guy like him have such a wimpy shot?

 

[this providence]

I'd break it down like this.

Suter and Spurgeon are really the only players who you can really trust to gain the zone at will. Thus, they should more or less run their own unit and I'd pair Granlund with Spurgeon to give him another outlet if needed.

If both Reilly and Dumba are on this team, Brodin and Scandella should never see another PP if the team is healthy. One, because they are far and away lesser offensive options. And two, keeping those two fresh for any PK or opposing coach countering with their top line after a penalty is killed is vital. You could also add Pominville to the mix of never seeing the point again as he's just not needed there.

*** So at this point your D pairings on the PP is mostly set with some combination of Suter, Spurgeon, Dumba, and Reilly.

Below are wingers that should be seeing PP time.
-- Parise
-- Vanek
-- Zucker
-- Pominville
-- Nino

Add in your two centers Koivu and Granlund and you're sort of at a surplus. Which means there needs to be a greater emphasis on playing to an opponent's PK weakness. Zucker has proven to be an elite PP player at every level when given the free reign to float the weak side and be the trigger. This requires rotation though and it's something this staff has just refused to do. Pominville is of the same mold with a lesser release at this point and a seemingly decreasing willingness to stick his nose in hard areas. Parise and Nino are both crash the net players with Parise's ability at the net among the best in the league. Vanek, I just don't have a good read on where he should be on the PP but they aren't going to leave him off of it.

Undoubtedly Yeo will try to get Coyle out there for some unknown reason. Sure isn't production. Don't see the mind or skill set for the PP at this level. I do, however, believe Fontaine needs more of a look if we're giving others chances. The puck finds him and he knows where the dangerous areas are at.

Ultimately, I'd like to see more balance in terms of ice time and units. Relying on an all veteran and all inexperienced unit is about the most nonsensical thing you could dream up. You've now put a ton of pressure on a group of vets to mesh their own styles regardless of fit. All the while not getting fresher legs/ability involved to bring in some life. Not to mention your youthful core doesn't have a consistent player to fall back on if they see a look they aren't accustomed to or having difficulties in a certain phase.

 

[Nharris31]

@travisyost: Sounds like the Minnesota Wild will be the next team hiring up some stats folk.
Nothing is for sure. But I guess don't be so surprised if this happens.

 

[P10p]

People forget that when it mattered (playoffs) we had a dynamite powerplay

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

People forget that when it mattered (playoffs) we had a dynamite powerplay

I think it was inflated by 2(?) empty net goals and bad goal by Crawford. It wasn't dynamite when it counted.

 

[gphr513]

Yeah, wasn't there 2 empty net PPG's in the same game against St. Louis?

 

[Generic User]

In addition to what was already said, I'll take what we saw over the span of 82 games as a better barometer of our PP performance over 10 playoff games.

 

[Uberdachen]

Anyone expecting swift changes when the PP fails has got cheerleader face of the brain. The only changes this teams makes is to do what it's doing harder, possibly with more Coyle.

Sometime after changes are long overdue, when the PP still wouldn't be picked out of the garbage by the hobo league, Suter will disappear for a few games and then return like this:

 

[57special]

I'd break it down like this.

Suter and Spurgeon are really the only players who you can really trust to gain the zone at will. Thus, they should more or less run their own unit and I'd pair Granlund with Spurgeon to give him another outlet if needed.

If both Reilly and Dumba are on this team, Brodin and Scandella should never see another PP if the team is healthy. One, because they are far and away lesser offensive options. And two, keeping those two fresh for any PK or opposing coach countering with their top line after a penalty is killed is vital. You could also add Pominville to the mix of never seeing the point again as he's just not needed there.

*** So at this point your D pairings on the PP is mostly set with some combination of Suter, Spurgeon, Dumba, and Reilly.

Below are wingers that should be seeing PP time.
-- Parise
-- Vanek
-- Zucker
-- Pominville
-- Nino

Add in your two centers Koivu and Granlund and you're sort of at a surplus. Which means there needs to be a greater emphasis on playing to an opponent's PK weakness. Zucker has proven to be an elite PP player at every level when given the free reign to float the weak side and be the trigger. This requires rotation though and it's something this staff has just refused to do. Pominville is of the same mold with a lesser release at this point and a seemingly decreasing willingness to stick his nose in hard areas. Parise and Nino are both crash the net players with Parise's ability at the net among the best in the league. Vanek, I just don't have a good read on where he should be on the PP but they aren't going to leave him off of it.

Undoubtedly Yeo will try to get Coyle out there for some unknown reason. Sure isn't production. Don't see the mind or skill set for the PP at this level. I do, however, believe Fontaine needs more of a look if we're giving others chances. The puck finds him and he knows where the dangerous areas are at.

Ultimately, I'd like to see more balance in terms of ice time and units. Relying on an all veteran and all inexperienced unit is about the most nonsensical thing you could dream up. You've now put a ton of pressure on a group of vets to mesh their own styles regardless of fit. All the while not getting fresher legs/ability involved to bring in some life. Not to mention your youthful core doesn't have a consistent player to fall back on if they see a look they aren't accustomed to or having difficulties in a certain phase.

I agree with everything except your take on Reilly, Scandella, and Brodin on the PP point. At this point, all we know about Reilly is that he is a good college PP specialist. NHL is a whole different game. I think Scandella is a very good option on the PP point, but i also think Brodin has all the tools necessary, also.

Having said all that, I think we're in agreement that Pominville should never be on the PP point again, with the options that Yeo has at his disposal back there.

 

[TaLoN]

Lemaire never had the talent available to him here that this team has, yet he ALWAYS had this team running a very good PP.

He was never afraid to make changes if players weren't cutting it... egos be damned!