2015-2016 Goaltending thread

[Dbrownss]

only good one on that list is luongo and going back to the same team = 2 teams

quick, crawford, lundquist, raask, fluery i dont see them bouncing around the league. even a mediocre goalie like jimmy howard isnt being bounced around.

my point is, elliott has many ups and downs and his downs tend to always come at very bad points in the season. the only time i remember a midseason down from him was in the lockout short year when the blues had to send him down to the AHL because he was playing so bad.

My god your arguments are all over the place......

 

[Captain Creampuff]

Bishop isn't good? He's arguably the best on the list between him and Luongo. Of course none of those goalies you mentioned were never traded. They are franchise goalies, no one is claiming Elliott to being a franchise goalie. Players get traded, doesn't mean anything. Gretzky got traded A LOT, guess he blows at hockey too.

 

[TheDizee]

Bishop isn't good? He's arguably the best on the list between him and Luongo. Of course none of those goalies you mentioned were never traded. They are franchise goalies, no one is claiming Elliott to being a franchise goalie. Players get traded, doesn't mean anything. Gretzky got traded A LOT, guess he blows at hockey too.

blues thought elliott was better than bishop so thats why they kept elliott and traded bishop. so no, i dont think bishop is that good if he cant even win a job over elliott.

 

[TheDizee]

Allen pooped the bed so bad with Elliott injured last year that we had to bring the corpse of Brodeur in for some stability. If you want to look hard enough, you can find a stretch for even the most elite of goalies that makes them look bad. It's why small sample sizes are a terrible evaluation tool.

marty was brought in as a PR stunt and short term backup goalie and to mentor allen. allen has clearly shown that marty being here helped him alot, especially with the way he handles the puck now.

this is allens team aslong as he plays like he did before. i can assure you that when elliott stumbles soon, jake will run around with the job again assuming he is healthy.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

blues thought elliott was better than bishop so thats why they kept elliott and traded bishop. so no, i dont think bishop is that good if he cant even win a job over elliott.

If that's the case, then Tuukka Rask is worse than Andrew Raycroft since the Leafs traded the former for the latter.

marty was brought in as a PR stunt and short term backup goalie and to mentor allen. allen has clearly shown that marty being here helped him alot, especially with the way he handles the puck now.

this is allens team aslong as he plays like he did before. i can assure you that when elliott stumbles soon, jake will run around with the job again assuming he is healthy.

You keep speaking in absolutes like you did last year when you guaranteed that Allen would lead us on a deep playoff run. Look how that turned out.

 

[TheDizee]

If that's the case, then Tuukka Rask is worse than Andrew Raycroft since the Leafs traded the former for the latter.



You keep speaking in absolutes like you did last year when you guaranteed that Allen would lead us on a deep playoff run. Look how that turned out.

i also guaranteed allen would be the starting goalie over elliott if he won at chicago, which he did in dominating fashion.

its not allens fault the team refused to score enough goals for him and then he had 1 bad game. if you wanna keep putting words in my mouth i can gladly link you the post where after game 5 when I saw his press conf I said I would start elliott for game 6. as usual I was proven right there too.

like i said, elliott win on the road in a place the blues struggle in regulation and then i will give him credit. until then hes just a mediocre goalie who has streaks of superb play.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

i also guaranteed allen would be the starting goalie over elliott if he won at chicago, which he did in dominating fashion.

its not allens fault the team refused to score enough goals for him and then he had 1 bad game. if you wanna keep putting words in my mouth i can gladly link you the post where after game 5 when I saw his press conf I said I would start elliott for game 6. as usual I was proven right there too.

like i said, elliott win on the road in a place the blues struggle in regulation and then i will give him credit. until then hes just a mediocre goalie who has streaks of superb play.

It's true that it was not Allen's fault that the team didn't score. I've never inferred it was. But it is also the gas that the last time Elliott played in a playoff series, the offense disappeared for him too. Neither goalie lost the series by themself. But you refuse to acknowledge that.

 

[Dbrownss]

i also guaranteed allen would be the starting goalie over elliott if he won at chicago, which he did in dominating fashion.

its not allens fault the team refused to score enough goals for him and then he had 1 bad game. if you wanna keep putting words in my mouth i can gladly lingk you the post where after game 5 when I saw his press conf I said I would start elliott for game 6. as usual I was proven right there too.

like i said, elliott win on the road in a place the blues struggle in regulation and then i will give him credit. until then hes just a mediocre goalie who has streaks of superb play.

Allen let in 1 goal that I didn't feel was weak and that was the Dumba goal. Seriously...your double standard is awesome.

 

[MissouriMook]

Group #1 = 1.62 & .947

Group #2 = 2.27 and .920

Group #3 = 2.38 and .913

Are these the numbers of a horrible goaltender?

Group #4 = 2.84 and .911

Group #5 = 3.06 and .911

Wow, those are a lot worse, right?

Group #1 is Elliott vs LAK, ANA and CHI (home and away) since Allen was injured earlier this season

Group #2 is Elliott vs LAK, ANA and CHI (home and away) since the start of 2014-15, including his 1st period meltdown in the infamous "#RoarBacon" game.

Group #3 is Elliott at LAK, ANA and CHI (away only) since the start of 2014-15, again including his 1st period meltdown in the infamous "#RoarBacon" game.

I'm pretty sure all of those are well above the league average against any opponent.

Here's where you'll lose your lunch.

Group #4 is Carey Price vs LAK, ANA and CHI (home and away) during his last two full seasons, including last year when he won the Vezina and the Hart

Group #5 is Carey Price at LAK, ANA and CHI (away only) during those same two full seasons

So the moral of the story is that if you try to pick and choose which individual data points are relevant, you're simply "proving" your pre-packaged assumption rather than actually building a case. But you knew that already, didn't you?

 

[TheDizee]

ANA/LA/CHI are the only teams the blues struggle against on the road. im sure MTL struggles on the road against other teams that would be a better comparison.

it is no different than a pitcher in baseball. if he cannot WIN games on the road against certain clubs, why would you want him to start for you during a road playoff game against them. You see this ALL the time with home/road splits too. Look at jamie garcia for example and his road/home splits. There is a reason he started game 2 in the NLDS instead of game 3. It was not because it increased his chances of pitching again in the series, it was because his home splits are BETTER.

Same goes here in regards to the team playing @LA/ANA/CHI. Allen has better numbers than Elliott does in these games. elliott has to PROVE he can win against those teams on the road. Jake has done this when given the chance, Elliott has not.

 

[TheDizee]

Also as I said before, Elliott seems to pout when things go bad. Look at how he reacted after that 5th goal in the dallas game clip above. That CANNOT happen on this mentally fragile team come april.

 

[KirkOut]

ANA/LA/CHI are the only teams the blues struggle against on the road. im sure MTL struggles on the road against other teams that would be a better comparison.

it is no different than a pitcher in baseball. if he cannot WIN games on the road against certain clubs, why would you want him to start for you during a road playoff game against them. You see this ALL the time with home/road splits too. Look at jamie garcia for example and his road/home splits. There is a reason he started game 2 in the NLDS instead of game 3. It was not because it increased his chances of pitching again in the series, it was because his home splits are BETTER.

Same goes here in regards to the team playing @LA/ANA/CHI. Allen has better numbers than Elliott does in these games. elliott has to PROVE he can win against those teams on the road. Jake has done this when given the chance, Elliott has not.

Are you using Jake Allen's TWO wins that you mentioned in your original post as justification for this sentence??

 

[MissouriMook]

Are you using Jake Allen's TWO wins that you mentioned in your original post as justification for this sentence??

Two? TWO? That's a lot, right?

 

[TheDizee]

thats two more than elliott in many many less opportunities.

thanks for proving my point

 

[KirkOut]

thats two more than elliott in many many less opportunities.

thanks for proving my point

Ya got me there! I didn't know I was up against a PhD in Statistics.

 

[TheDizee]

Elliott career stats. Keep in mind these are CAREER stats so OTT/COL/STL and also include shootout wins (the only wins he has gotten in these buildings)

@ CHI 1-4-1 (was spared another loss due to Jake Allen bailing him out #Roarbacon)
@ LA 1-7-2
@ ANA 1-3-1


Now lets take it a step further.

Elliotts win @ ANA came with the Sens in a SHOOTOUT http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/ottawa-senators-anaheim-ducks-2009120625/

Elliott's win @ LA just came recently as we all saw in a SHOOTOUT

Elliott's win @ CHI came in 2012-13 in a SHOOTOUT http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/st-louis-blues-chicago-blackhawks-2013040404/

so once again, you all can make up all the little stats you want but it will always come down to WIN/LOSSES and elliott has not done anything besides one measly shootout win vs these clubs on the road. Shootout wins are the definition of a welfare win and serve no help come April when the real season begins. Jake has already had TWO ROW wins in 1/8th of the opportunities.

 

[KirkOut]

Elliott career stats. Keep in mind these are CAREER stats so OTT/COL/STL and also include shootout wins (the only wins he has gotten in these buildings)

@ CHI 1-4-1 (was spared another loss due to Jake Allen bailing him out #Roarbacon)
@ LA 1-7-2
@ ANA 1-3-1


Now lets take it a step further.

Elliotts win @ ANA came with the Sens in a SHOOTOUT http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/ottawa-senators-anaheim-ducks-2009120625/

Elliott's win @ LA just came recently as we all saw in a SHOOTOUT

Elliott's win @ CHI came in 2012-13 in a SHOOTOUT http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/st-louis-blues-chicago-blackhawks-2013040404/

so once again, you all can make up all the little stats you want but it will always come down to WIN/LOSSES and elliott has not done anything besides one measly shootout win vs these clubs on the road. Shootout wins are the definition of a welfare win and serve no help come April when the real season begins. Jake has already had TWO ROW wins in 1/8th of the opportunities.

Because it seems like you don't understand this fundamental concept, I'll just lay it right out here for you. Claiming that 2 victories puts Allen on a level above Elliott is unsound to say the least. Yes, it is two more wins than Elliott has. I get it. Good job, Brodeu-I mean Allen. The only conclusion you can fairly draw from your data is that *neither* guy has been very successful on the road at those places.

 

[TomDelonge]

You sure about that?

It might help if that dummy of a mod who changed the title could type.

Any reason why my controversial attention grabbing thread title got renamed?

 

[Edgar Carrow]

Elliott career stats. Keep in mind these are CAREER stats so OTT/COL/STL and also include shootout wins (the only wins he has gotten in these buildings)

@ CHI 1-4-1 (was spared another loss due to Jake Allen bailing him out #Roarbacon)
@ LA 1-7-2
@ ANA 1-3-1


Now lets take it a step further.

Elliotts win @ ANA came with the Sens in a SHOOTOUT http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/ottawa-senators-anaheim-ducks-2009120625/

Elliott's win @ LA just came recently as we all saw in a SHOOTOUT

Elliott's win @ CHI came in 2012-13 in a SHOOTOUT http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/st-louis-blues-chicago-blackhawks-2013040404/

so once again, you all can make up all the little stats you want but it will always come down to WIN/LOSSES and elliott has not done anything besides one measly shootout win vs these clubs on the road. Shootout wins are the definition of a welfare win and serve no help come April when the real season begins. Jake has already had TWO ROW wins in 1/8th of the opportunities.

That game didn't go to a shootout. Even if it did, it shouldn't count against Elliott unless you are expecting him to score goals. Elliott was the best player on the ice for that game.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

That game didn't go to a shootout. Even if it did, it shouldn't count against Elliott unless you are expecting him to score goals. Elliott was the best player on the ice for that game.

He also got a shut-out in LA last year (that ended in a shoot-out loss).

 

[ManyIdeas]

this is still going on?

huh.

 

[Robb_K]

If Allen is healthy, and ready to play within a week or two(at the most), The Blues have no problem in goal. Elliott's recent hot streak can't be ignored. It's his job to lose. He should have the #1 until he falters for an extended period.

The Blues' main problem is scoring, and defensive lapses (team defence-fowards & defencemen) (e.g. players not playing hard for 60 minutes).

 

[KirkOut]

He also got a shut-out in LA last year (that ended in a shoot-out loss).

So in other words, he didn't win the game

 

[Dbrownss]

So in other words, he didn't win the game

Even when Elliott shuts out the Kings...the Blues can't win

 

[TheDizee]

it comes down to win/losses at the end of the day.if he got a shutout and lost it means that quick was simply better than he was