Speculation: 2014-15 Stars Trade Talk 4: Jim Nill's Trading Tactics are Classless

TangoMcBride

Registered User
Feb 28, 2008
3,708
1,067
The DF Dub
Honestly the main thing that intrigues me when it comes to Phaneuf is that his supposed strengths are weaknesses throughout our current d-core. That being strong defense along the boards and in front of the net. I was strongly opposed to the idea of bringing him in not too long ago because of salary and personal bias but I've reached the point where I've realized that this is a guy who has the potential to greatly improve our squad. Besides, I'm tired of watching our defensemen get completely outmatched physically.
 

LT

XXXX - XXXX - ____ - ____
Jul 23, 2010
42,003
13,687
Add Phaneuf or Methot and I'll be disappointed if we don't make the playoffs. Both do exactly what Tango just mentioned, Methot a bit less so but he'd still be very much welcomed here.
 

MBTendy

Registered User
May 6, 2009
8,911
2,619
I'd take Methot or Boychuk over Phaneuf simply because the cost would be cheaper. But one of the three would make me a happy camper.
 

MBTendy

Registered User
May 6, 2009
8,911
2,619
I honestly don't see Boychuk on the table. They need him for the playoffs.

I forgot where I saw it or heard it but I remember seeing it last month that Boychuk was being shopped and Nill was in on it. Might have been Garrioch or Lebrun. But yeah I don't see why he would be available when the Isles need him, the only reason he was brought up was cause of the rumor I remembered seeing.
 

BigG44

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
24,127
1,579
I forgot where I saw it or heard it but I remember seeing it last month that Boychuk was being shopped and Nill was in on it. Might have been Garrioch or Lebrun. But yeah I don't see why he would be available when the Isles need him, the only reason he was brought up was cause of the rumor I remembered seeing.

Close but not exactly right.

Garrioch said Dallas called the Isles asking if he was available. They clearly weren't shopping him.

Garrioch is also the one I believe that originally said Dallas tried to get him from Boston before the Isles closed the deal.

If Garrioch is right about Dallas ... and the Isles don't land a new contract with Boychuck ... Dallas could open up the wallet in the summer.

I'm for sure surprised he's not signed yet, but my money is still on a new contract with the Islanders. Makes so much sense. They'll match any money anyone else would offer, they're one of the better teams in the league. Plus they have sustainability like Dallas with a young core.

Hope they don't sign him .. but I just assume they will eventually.
 

BigG44

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
24,127
1,579
Difference being Myers averages .41 points per game in his career to Dion's .54, which is heavily inflated by a crazy rookie season (without it his average is .36), and is a lot less imposing than Phaneuf despite his larger frame. I wish I could justify my interest in Dion more thoughtfully, but I didn't get to see him much in his Calgary days.

I guess to be fair ... 100% of my uncertainty is the contract. At $7 million for 6 more years ... it's a bit mind numbing. I think he'd be a good defender probably for Dallas.

It's just there aren't many $7 million D. Myers was probably a poor example.

I don't have the confidence to make a call like that ... add $42 million to your cap for the next 6 years for one player. Obviously if it's Benn or Seguin re-signing ... it's a no brainer. I'm just not well versed in Phaneuf enough to make that call or have a reasonable judgement.

Nill's very conservative about adding long term money. If he's good ... I'm good. Trust his judgement.
 
Last edited:

BigG44

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
24,127
1,579
RE: Methot

His value is probably a 2nd round pick in most years. Dallas has no pick in 2015, and they can't trade the 2016 pick since it's tied up with a condition (Enroth trade).

You'd have to trade a player for him. Considering the type of prospects that would probably equal a 2nd round pick ... it's too much of a risk for my blood without a new contract in hand.

For example ... I'd be just find to trade Jokipakka for Methot since you wouldn't have room for all these D .. don't know if OTT would be high on Joki ... but maybe. However, you make that trade and then Methot doesn't sign ... you're screwed. That's a terrible move. You rarely get new contracts at the trade deadline when acquiring a guy. It's not worth the risk.
 

haf

Registered User
Mar 3, 2008
907
0
I guess to be fair ... 100% of my uncertainty is the contract. At $7 million for 6 more years ... it's a bit mind numbing. I think he'd be a good defender probably for Dallas.

It's just there aren't many $7 million D. Myers was probably a poor example.

I don't have the confidence to make a call like that ... add $42 million to your cap for the next 6 years for one player. Obviously if it's Benn or Seguin ... it's a no brainer. I'm just not well versed in Phaneuf enough to make that call or have a reasonable judgement.

Nill's very conservative about adding long term money. If he's good ... I'm good. Trust his judgement.

It is very very hard to imagine Phaneuf beign worth $7 for 6 years. do we still have a compliance buyout left? i thought we only used the one.
 

BigG44

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
24,127
1,579
It is very very hard to imagine Phaneuf beign worth $7 for 6 years. do we still have a compliance buyout left? i thought we only used the one.

Those expired. Regardless, they could only be used on contracts signed before the new CBA.
 

MBTendy

Registered User
May 6, 2009
8,911
2,619
Close but not exactly right.

Garrioch said Dallas called the Isles asking if he was available. They clearly weren't shopping him.

Garrioch is also the one I believe that originally said Dallas tried to get him from Boston before the Isles closed the deal.

If Garrioch is right about Dallas ... and the Isles don't land a new contract with Boychuck ... Dallas could open up the wallet in the summer.

I'm for sure surprised he's not signed yet, but my money is still on a new contract with the Islanders. Makes so much sense. They'll match any money anyone else would offer, they're one of the better teams in the league. Plus they have sustainability like Dallas with a young core.

Hope they don't sign him .. but I just assume they will eventually.

Yeah that sure rings a bell. I knew it had to do with one of the two. Thanks for that! And yeah I can definetly see Nill pursuing hard after Boychuk if the Isles can't come to an agreement with him. One of Methot or Boychuk would be a solid pick up for us if they manage to hit the market.
 

________

Registered User
Feb 6, 2006
4,816
123
Close but not exactly right.

Garrioch said Dallas called the Isles asking if he was available. They clearly weren't shopping him.

Garrioch is also the one I believe that originally said Dallas tried to get him from Boston before the Isles closed the deal.

If Garrioch is right about Dallas ... and the Isles don't land a new contract with Boychuck ... Dallas could open up the wallet in the summer.

Dreger mentioned it as well.
Link

Dreger said:
“I know that the Dallas Stars were one of the teams that were interested in Johnny Boychuk and were having some level of negotiation with the Boston Bruins over Boychuk. And perhaps one of their other less expensive defensemen before ultimately the Islanders closed the deal with the Bruins.

“But I know directly Dallas was involved in the Boston talks.â€
 

Cin

Eurosnob.
Feb 29, 2008
6,879
2
Austin, TX
With how much player salaries increase each off-season, Phaneuf will look cheap towards the end of his contract.

Remember what Norstrom added in the twilight of his career? You wouldn't just bring the guy in for what he adds on the ice. He's a valuable teaching tool for our massive crop of young defenders coming up. Would you rather have Daley and Goligoski teaching guys like Oleksiak and Nemeth? Or Phaneuf?
 

BigG44

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
24,127
1,579
IDK ... I hope $7 million doesn't become the new $5 to $5.5 in 6 short years, but it very well could happen.

Everyone was pissed about Daley's contract. Now it's one of the best in the league. He's about $1.5 to $2 million below market.
 

Mr Misty

The Irons Are Back!
Feb 20, 2012
7,965
58
With how much player salaries increase each off-season, Phaneuf will look cheap towards the end of his contract.

Remember what Norstrom added in the twilight of his career? You wouldn't just bring the guy in for what he adds on the ice. He's a valuable teaching tool for our massive crop of young defenders coming up. Would you rather have Daley and Goligoski teaching guys like Oleksiak and Nemeth? Or Phaneuf?

Player salaries increase because the cap increases, and if the Canadian dollar eats up most of the new TV money, there isn't going to be a $75m cap for a few years. Phaneuff isn't going to look cheap ever and if he declines in a significant way, we'll be capped out like the Leafs are now.

Also, I would rather have Daley and Goligoski teaching guys, they're both improving. I don't expect Daley to chase 20 goals the next few years, but something seems to be turning all those missed shots of the past few seasons into goals. Goligoski has been given the Robidas role and done a fine job with it, his defense has improved by leaps and bounds since he first got here. We've got two vets who mesh well with the current combination of teammates and coaches, the best case Phaneuff scenario is he can do it as well as they are already.
 

BigG44

Registered User
Jul 12, 2007
24,127
1,579
I think the problem with your plan is the team feels they are too light and small.

Klingberg, Daley, and Goligoski are all small. Benn's pretty average. Jokipakka has decent size, but he doesn't play a physical game. Oleksiak's physicality is improving. Demer is willing to throw his wait around, but he's still an average sized defender. Nemeth is the only sure thing, big tough defender.

Both Nill and Ruff have talked about wanting a large, minute munching, physical D who can play in all situations.

I'd personally like to see them have a more even mix of size and skill. If Klingberg and Demers are going to fill two of your rolls of small defenders, I'd hope Nemeth and Oleksaik get a serious chance to be the other side of the coin.

That would leave Daley, Goligoski, Benn, and IMO Jokipakka competing for the last cerebral, softer D spot. Eventually, you'd have guys like Honka, Lindell, Bystrom, and maybe even Hansson push for a similar role ... maybe even edge out a guy like Demers.

When you look at the names Dallas has been tied too, they're big, physical D. It's been Boychuck and Phaneuf primarily. It's guys that are big, but they can play an all around game.

I just think connecting the dots, that's where the team's head is at. I don't think we move forward with a mostly undersized / average defense.
 

NukeJukes43

Guest
I think the problem with your plan is the team feels they are too light and small.

Klingberg, Daley, and Goligoski are all small. Benn's pretty average. Jokipakka has decent size, but he doesn't play a physical game. Oleksiak's physicality is improving. Demer is willing to throw his wait around, but he's still an average sized defender. Nemeth is the only sure thing, big tough defender.

Both Nill and Ruff have talked about wanting a large, minute munching, physical D who can play in all situations.

I'd personally like to see them have a more even mix of size and skill. If Klingberg and Demers are going to fill two of your rolls of small defenders, I'd hope Nemeth and Oleksaik get a serious chance to be the other side of the coin.

That would leave Daley, Goligoski, Benn, and IMO Jokipakka competing for the last cerebral, softer D spot. Eventually, you'd have guys like Honka, Lindell, Bystrom, and maybe even Hansson push for a similar role ... maybe even edge out a guy like Demers.

When you look at the names Dallas has been tied too, they're big, physical D. It's been Boychuck and Phaneuf primarily. It's guys that are big, but they can play an all around game.

I just think connecting the dots, that's where the team's head is at. I don't think we move forward with a mostly undersized / average defense.

Size and physicality is pretty absent all around our lineup. I'd really like some bigger depth forwards because guys like fiddler garbutt and sceviour just get pushed off the puck so easy. Eakin too. I think this off season will bring big changes to our lineup as far as the bottom 6 goes.
 

Cin

Eurosnob.
Feb 29, 2008
6,879
2
Austin, TX
You guys all have great points to add to this conversation and I deeply value and respect your input.

Great job everybody!
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad