OT: 2013 Redskins Thread - Part II

[Capsman]

I liked Mike as a coach. But he has lost this team. No one is playing for him right now. Its unfortunate but he has to be let go.

With that said, this team ain't gonna win crap till Dan Synder is the owner.

You sure about that? I actually think he's well-liked by the players and they have played hard for him this season. This game non-withstanding, what game did you see otherwise? If there is a reason they laid an egg it just might be all the talk about Shanahan getting fired.

I actually like Shanahan too, by the way. I don't like him, though, as a de facto GM.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You sure about that? I actually think he's well-liked by the players and they have played hard for him this season. This game non-withstanding, what game did you see otherwise? If there is a reason they laid an egg it just might be all the talk about Shanahan getting fired.

I actually like Shanahan too, by the way. I don't like him, though, as a de facto GM.

There are a lot of players who would be out of a job without Shanahan coaching. I imagine they like having him around. It's guys like Garcon and RG I wonder about.

 

[Capitlols]

Wow just noticed Kerrigan hasn't had a sack since week 8.

 

[g00n]

Shanahan took control of the locker room after the inmates were running the asylum for years. One of his first acts was to take on Fat Albert Haynesworth. I think DC went from a place where guys were just cashing checks and didn't care enough to rebel to a place where there was enough order that few players spoke up against the Shanahans.

The RG3 injury was the end of the train of success that was holding it all together, and RG3 himself undermined the authority of his coaches by running his mouth so much in the preseason. Since then the players have had no option but to go along and do their individual jobs while the soap opera plays out between the 3 headed monster (Shanahans, Snyder and RG3).

If you're a Redskin player you know RG3 isn't going anywhere, but you probably resent the special treatment he's getting from the owner. You can't badmouth either one of them, and you can't badmouth the coach because he can still cut you or bench you and kill your value, especially if he wants out and doesn't give a **** anymore.

It's beginning to look at lot like Dallas and Jones/Romo, which is probably no coincidence since Jones and Snyder have some kind of reach-around rivalry where they apparently trade notes despite wanting to beat each others' brains in.

Part of me thinks Snyder is getting played for a sucker by Jones, because Snyder is so in love with the Redskins brand as it existed before he bought the team that he secretly loves Jones and the Cowboys in the same way Batman fans root against but still love the Joker.

The big question for me is why Shanahan was so against the RG3 pick, as rumored. Did he anticipate this all happening? Or did he help bring it on by being obstinate?

 

[Capsman]

Shanahan took control of the locker room after the inmates were running the asylum for years. One of his first acts was to take on Fat Albert Haynesworth. I think DC went from a place where guys were just cashing checks and didn't care enough to rebel to a place where there was enough order that few players spoke up against the Shanahans.

The RG3 injury was the end of the train of success that was holding it all together, and RG3 himself undermined the authority of his coaches by running his mouth so much in the preseason. Since then the players have had no option but to go along and do their individual jobs while the soap opera plays out between the 3 headed monster (Shanahans, Snyder and RG3).

If you're a Redskin player you know RG3 isn't going anywhere, but you probably resent the special treatment he's getting from the owner. You can't badmouth either one of them, and you can't badmouth the coach because he can still cut you or bench you and kill your value, especially if he wants out and doesn't give a **** anymore.

It's beginning to look at lot like Dallas and Jones/Romo, which is probably no coincidence since Jones and Snyder have some kind of reach-around rivalry where they apparently trade notes despite wanting to beat each others' brains in.

Part of me thinks Snyder is getting played for a sucker by Jones, because Snyder is so in love with the Redskins brand as it existed before he bought the team that he secretly loves Jones and the Cowboys in the same way Batman fans root against but still love the Joker.

The big question for me is why Shanahan was so against the RG3 pick, as rumored. Did he anticipate this all happening? Or did he help bring it on by being obstinate?

Huh? I was under the impression Allen was a figurehead. Then who, exactly, made that decision? And if Shanahan was against trading 3 firsts and a second for RG3, then perhaps he shouldn't take the blame for our crappy personnel.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

No one wants Shanahan.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...ahan-but-interested-in-smith-shaw-whisenhunt/

I'd kick the tires on Lovie Smith. Les Miles would be interesting. Not sure what it is about Shaw. He does nothing for me as far an enthusiasm at the thought of the hire.

 

[Ridley Simon]

This looks a lot like the Eagles last year. Andy Reid lost the team, as has Shanahan.

Not having the top 5 pick hurts a lot...I won't sugar coat that. But the team has talent, will have an off-season where the QB and WR's can work together, and with a lot of Cap space.

So it could be a quick bounce.

But the Snyder piece is as always...a massive problem. Skins will probably not win anything with him owing the team. Which hurts.

 

[g00n]

Huh? I was under the impression Allen was a figurehead. Then who, exactly, made that decision? And if Shanahan was against trading 3 firsts and a second for RG3, then perhaps he shouldn't take the blame for our crappy personnel.

Well, by process of elimination...Snyder.

That's the story that's been out there. The Dan was allegedly "out front" on the effort to get RG3 and Shanahan wanted Tannehill.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...picked-ryan-tannehill-over-robert-griffin-iii

If this is true it explains a lot.




Also, lowest regular season attendance ever at FedEx Field:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...west-fedex-field-attendance-mark/?tid=up_next

 

[Capitlols]

This looks a lot like the Eagles last year. Andy Reid lost the team, as has Shanahan.

Not having the top 5 pick hurts a lot...I won't sugar coat that. But the team has talent, will have an off-season where the QB and WR's can work together, and with a lot of Cap space.

So it could be a quick bounce.

But the Snyder piece is as always...a massive problem. Skins will probably not win anything with him owing the team. Which hurts.

Andy Reid has had prolonged success, Shanny had one good year. I saw somewhere that this was the third straight year Shanny has started 3-6.

 

[John Price]

Why is Snyder being blamed? He hasn't done anything.

Just like Bruce Allen shouldn't be blamed...Allen has helped build a good team through the draft. They had to deal those picks, they didn't have a choice.

This problem is solely a coaching problem, because the team isn't inspired and showing up for games. It has nothing to do with talent because the team won the division last year. It has nothing to do with the FO because they drafted talent such as Jordan Reed and Alfred Morris. It has nothing to do with the owner because the owner just mopes after losses and doesn't really meddle in affairs as much as he used to. The blame is 100% on the coaches. You can't keep getting blown out and falling behind by double digits in the first quarter, and win games. That is an issue of preparedness. That is an issue of lack of heart. It doesn't have anything to do at all with the front office, or the ownership.

 

[g00n]

Why is Snyder being blamed? He hasn't done anything.

Just like Bruce Allen shouldn't be blamed...Allen has helped build a good team through the draft. They had to deal those picks, they didn't have a choice.

This problem is solely a coaching problem, because the team isn't inspired and showing up for games. It has nothing to do with talent because the team won the division last year. It has nothing to do with the FO because they drafted talent such as Jordan Reed and Alfred Morris. It has nothing to do with the owner because the owner just mopes after losses and doesn't really meddle in affairs as much as he used to. The blame is 100% on the coaches. You can't keep getting blown out and falling behind by double digits in the first quarter, and win games. That is an issue of preparedness. That is an issue of lack of heart. It doesn't have anything to do at all with the front office, or the ownership.

Not saying Shanahan isn't blameless, but you may be understating what Snyder has done to undercut Shanahan's authority.

Did you miss the entire RG3 vs Shanahan saga in the preseason? Reports that Snyder and RG3 are very close (spending time together a lot, use of personal body guards and limo for RG3 and family, ignoring other players, etc) and that has been causing some of the problems in the locker room? The controversy regarding whether or not Snyder overruled Shanahan to trade away all those picks for RG3?

All indications are that The Dan pulled a Ted/Jagr and pushed for the RG3 deal against the designs of the man he hired to handle roster and make it work. Then Snyder may have enabled RG3's defiant attitude following the injury vs Seattle (which resulted in confusion about whether Shanahan or RG3 were more to blame for his staying on the field too long).

There has clearly been a massive split in the Skins camp of Shanahans vs RG3/Snyder. Shanahan may not be perfect and is probably a defensive *******, but how can you run an organization and lead your players when your boss and your star player (and on-field leader) aren't listening to you?

Some scathing opinions and info:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...6ccb90-6068-11e3-8beb-3f9a9942850f_story.html


http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...f46972-604c-11e3-8beb-3f9a9942850f_story.html


The DC soap opera never ends. Snyder has to fire the Shanahans today. He can't risk any more time under these guys who are TRYING to get fired just to spite their efforts to roll into Houston or to save $7 million on the last year of that contract.

 

[BobRouse]

Wow..

So here is what I get out of all this:

1. We suck

2. Shanahan wants out. His "people" were the ones most likely responsible for the leak of info to the press.

3. NOT SHOCKING that Dan Snyder still is meddling. He was pressing the McNabb trade? The RGIII trade up in the draft? Ouch. If thats true then people blaming Shanahan for these can't do so now.

4. Dan Snyder means well. He has gotten better about being hands off. Or so we thought...

5. We aren't winning anything now that I see this. I thought our meddling owner had finally figured things out. Was I ever wrong.

6. I forsee Vinny Cerrato being brought back in the fold and a puppet coach being hired.

7. Our special teams is the worst in NFL history this year.

 

[John Price]

I thought Snyder was hand-off, all those accusations are new to me. The problem has largely been lack of competitive fire IMO. I will have to investigate those accusations some more.

 

[g00n]

Ok, conspiracy time!

As the Texans were in freefall mode, maybe Kubiak saw the writing on the wall and faked an illness when he collapsed on the sidelines on 11/4. Maybe he knew he was going to be fired and the Shanahans would be brought in, and wanted out asap. Or maybe the stress of finding that out got to him.

At any rate, the door is then open for Shanahan's people to start leaking stories right before gametime for the next couple of weeks in order to push the exit from DC along. The Texans, if not involved, at least see the opportunity to bring Kyle back with his dad at the helm, and fire Kubiak. But doing so right after the fake illness would seem cruel, so they wait a few weeks.

With that done the gloves are off and Shanahan is flat out bucking to be let go. The prospect of Shanahan in the Texans job next year takes the last year of the contract off of Snyders hands which makes firing more likely.

Heh heh.

Or maybe it's all a big fat coincidence.

 

[RandyHolt]

If Mike has been letting Dan's relationship with RG3 dictate his moves, cause his sons play calling to suck, his OL unable to provide basic protections in the passing game, for Haslet to have the longest leash of a 4-3 3-4 DC imaginable, to have a leagues worst special teams.... that is one helluva relationship they have.

What happened to Mike having control of the team? It sounds like he has been holding the "Dan is pressuring me" whining for a crappy year.

 

[BobRouse]

If Mike has been letting Dan's relationship with RG3 dictate his moves, cause his sons play calling to suck, his OL unable to provide basic protections in the passing game, for Haslet to have the longest leash of a 4-3 3-4 DC imaginable, to have a leagues worst special teams.... that is one helluva relationship they have.

What happened to Mike having control of the team? It sounds like he has been holding the "Dan is pressuring me" whining for a crappy year.

Its hard to say RH. On the one hand it seems the Mike has had an easy target to shift his blame to in Snyder.

On the other hand...would it really suprise you if Snyder was at fault?

Snyder has lost all benefit of the doubt in my mind. He has undermined several coaches before and fired the only one who wouldn't cave (Marty)

 

[Brian23]

I thought Snyder was hand-off, all those accusations are new to me. The problem has largely been lack of competitive fire IMO. I will have to investigate those accusations some more.

He has been. Every local beat guy has said they haven't even really talked since the off-season.

Its just Mike and his group attempting to shove blame off on Dan to cover his own butt.

 

[BobRouse]

He has been. Every local beat guy has said they haven't even really talked since the off-season.

Its just Mike and his group attempting to shove blame off on Dan to cover his own butt.

Do you know this for sure? It certainly could be...but would is suprise you if Snyder was still meddling?

Why the HECK is Snyder having Thanksgiving dinner with his QB??? That kind of stuff does undermine the coach and it goes along way in explaining RGIIIs off kilter attitude since the injury.

Snyder is damaging the chain of command by doing such things if indeed they are true. Has Snyder earned the benefit of the doubt in anyones book?

 

[Duke33]

Do you know this for sure? It certainly could be...but would is suprise you if Snyder was still meddling?

Why the HECK is Snyder having Thanksgiving dinner with his QB??? That kind of stuff does undermine the coach and it goes along way in explaining RGIIIs off kilter attitude since the injury.

Snyder is damaging the chain of command by doing such things if indeed they are true. Has Snyder earned the benefit of the doubt in anyones book?

Sorry to chime in on your board but you're right. Ditka did the same thing with Flutie (Thanksgiving) back in 86 or 87 and it rubbed many of the Bears the wrong way big time. Seems like a petty thing but it bothered a lot of the key vets, bringing to the surface several issues that didn't come out fully until years later about how dysfunctional that Bears team was, esp. between the coach/owner and the players.

Hope things work out. Personally I think Shanahan is a bit of a jerk and his best days are long behind him. But sounds like you have a very meddlesome owner there too. See ya in April.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Sorry to chime in on your board but you're right. Ditka did the same thing with Flutie (Thanksgiving) back in 86 or 87 and it rubbed many of the Bears the wrong way big time. Seems like a petty thing but it bothered a lot of the key vets, bringing to the surface several issues that didn't come out fully until years later about how dysfunctional that Bears team was, esp. between the coach/owner and the players.

Hope things work out. Personally I think Shanahan is a bit of a jerk and his best days are long behind him. But sounds like you have a very meddlesome owner there too. See ya in April.

Quick thoughts on how you think Lovie Smith might do with this group?

 

[strungout]

What a glorious mess.

 

[marcel snapshot]

Get out the popcorn for the gripping conclusion of the epic horror show: "When Control Freaks Collide"

The Redskins are like an entire Harvard Business School class in mis-management.

 

[g00n]

More than just thanksgiving:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...nd-rgiii-went-to-the-oblivion-party-together/

I don't think it matters if they stopped publicly talking to each other once the season started. There's still a presence, and a dynamic, that's resulted from his interference. RG3's attitude and behavior changed noticeably in the offseason and preseason and the feud escalated to the point it was all the sports-shout shows could talk about.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Snyder's so gonna hire Cowher to replace Shanny.

 

[Capitlols]

Damn, I thought I was going to come to work and hear news Shanny got fired/resigned.