2013-2014 CHL/NCAA/Euro Prospects thread 5.0

[Frozenice]

How long before this team is gutted and an empty shell?

Each of these moves I don't mind individually but the cumulative effect is really bad. If MB actually went out and got picks and young prospects to fill the voids it would be so bad but that doesn't seem to be on his agenda.

In 2 or 3 years this team could easily be a complete mess, just like when Gauthier let things slide.

 

[Locks]

If he doesn't earn a spot. I hope that the habs at the very least wait til camp and try him out a bit. Hell, give him a game or two in the regular season. If it's the difference between moving a young asset or not, it's worth the risk.

Agree. They need to maximize his value. I am not sure his defensive game is NHL-ready. At WC, he was used as a PP specialist in the second half of the turney. Defensively, I think both Beaulieu and Tinordi are ahead of him and so is Pateryn.
But his shot is top end and his passing is solid.

And I don't think the brass is enamoured with the statements he made from Sweden. Even that last statement is not something he should be telling a paper - it is kind of stuff discussed with the agent. I would not be surprised that he is moved at some point, probably sooner rather than later.

 

[overlords]

Agree. They need to maximize his value. I am not sure his defensive game is NHL-ready. At WC, he was used as a PP specialist in the second half of the turney. Defensively, I think both Beaulieu and Tinordi are ahead of him and so is Pateryn.
But his shot is top end and his passing is solid.

And I don't think the brass is enamoured with the statements he made from Sweden. Even that last statement is not something he should be telling a paper - it is kind of stuff discussed with the agent. I would not be surprised that he is moved at some point, probably sooner rather than later.

I could see him being moved at the draft on account of 'character issues'. I probably won't like the deal either

 

[Treb]

How long before this team is gutted and an empty shell?

Each of these moves I don't mind individually but the cumulative effect is really bad. If MB actually went out and got picks and young prospects to fill the voids it would be so bad but that doesn't seem to be on his agenda.

In 2 or 3 years this team could easily be a complete mess, just like when Gauthier let things slide.

I don't follow. Our prospect pool is better than it was when MB arrived. Trading Leblanc maybe, but 2nd+Collberg was a no brainer for Vanek, even if it didn't work out in the end.

How are we supposed to keep Nygren if he doesn't want to play in Hamilton to accustom to the NA game? As long as we get at least a 4th rounder, we aren't losing.

 

[S Bah]

I can understand that fans have been disillusioned with the moves of Habs GM's over the last two decades, but Marc Bergevin isn't one of those GM's. The Habs now have a competent hockey man in charge of the team and the only direction the Habs are going to go is right to the SC. So quit worrying about every move that's made by the Habs, if they move Nygren it will be for the best interests of the team.

Too many fans believe that the Habs are incapable of drafting players with size, due to some previous picks by people no longer in the organization. When Bergevin, Dudley & Timmins are making the decisions, it's not like drawing straws, which I'm sure Houle & Gainey could have done, with better results than some of the choices they made. Like Fischer instead of Timmins choice Giroux for one and quite a few others, the Habs are being led by very good if not exceptional hockey minds now!

So eave the driving to them and enjoy the ride, it's going to be the most pleasant one since Pollock was GM, take the advice or get ulcers worrying about things you have no control over and you wouldn't make better decisions anyway!

 

[Frozenice]

I don't follow. Our prospect pool is better than it was when MB arrived. Trading Leblanc maybe, but 2nd+Collberg was a no brainer for Vanek, even if it didn't work out in the end.

How are we supposed to keep Nygren if he doesn't want to play in Hamilton to accustom to the NA game? As long as we get at least a 4th rounder, we aren't losing.

We traded away Kristo, Leblanc, Collberg and this year's 2nd, plus a 5th each for Weaver and Drewiske and all we've got back is a 3rd for Cole and Thomas and we're better now then before?

We'll see 2 or 3 years from now, especially if there's another Vanek type of deal at next year's trade deadline that's too good too pass up on. There's lots of things that can and do go wrong, like player's getting injured, contract squabbles, players asking to be traded, the coach is an idiot, etc, etc.

 

[S Bah]

We traded away Kristo, Leblanc, Collberg and this year's 2nd, plus a 5th each for Weaver and Drewiske and all we've got back is a 3rd for Cole and Thomas and we're better now then before?

We'll see 2 or 3 years from now, especially if there's another Vanek type of deal at next year's trade deadline that's too good too pass up on. There's lots of things that can and do go wrong, like player's getting injured, contract squabbles, players asking to be traded, the coach is an idiot, etc, etc.

Let the Habs do the heavy thinking and watch the team become a SC champion once again. I've been a Hab fan since birth and I'm five month's short of 60 yrs.old and haven't seen a team with this leadership (Bergevin) since the 70's, take my advice they will be there again with Bergy as GM.

To answer your question just look at this season's outcome, it was the best since the Habs won the SC in 1993.

 

[Frozenice]

Let the Habs do the heavy thinking and watch the team become a SC champion once again. I've been a Hab fan since birth and I'm five month's short of 60 yrs.old and haven't seen a team with this leadership (Bergevin) since the 70's, take my advice they will be there again with Bergy as GM.

To answer your question just look at this season's outcome, it was the best since the Habs won the SC in 1993.

When MB does the heavy lifting and the hard work required to build a perennial contending team I'll give him credit for make smart, long term decisions.

As an example, Chicago has traded away a bunch of wingers, also, but they have gotten back some decent assets for them. Asset management is one of the most important things a team can master and something I'd like to see improved by MB.

 

[Treb]

We traded away Kristo, Leblanc, Collberg and this year's 2nd, plus a 5th each for Weaver and Drewiske and all we've got back is a 3rd for Cole and Thomas and we're better now then before?

We'll see 2 or 3 years from now, especially if there's another Vanek type of deal at next year's trade deadline that's too good too pass up on. There's lots of things that can and do go wrong, like player's getting injured, contract squabbles, players asking to be traded, the coach is an idiot, etc, etc.

We traded Kristo for Thomas.

Leblanc busted.

Collberg+this year 2nd were given for a cup run that almost worked.

Same for the 5th from Weaver.

We also got a 5th back from the Vanek trade.

Look at our prospect pool and tell me it was better in 2012.

You also seem to not understand that every team sacrifices bits of their pool when they think they can win. See the penguins last year, LA when they got Gaborik, NYR when they got ST-Louis, STL when they got Miller. You have to give to get.

I mean, having a good prospect pool is fine and dandy, but the Stanley Cup doesn't go to the team with the shiniest pool, it goes to the team with the NHL roster that plays best. If all you do is amass prospects, you just end up being the Oilers.

 

[Frozenice]

I can understand that fans have been disillusioned with the moves of Habs GM's over the last two decades, but Marc Bergevin isn't one of those GM's. The Habs now have a competent hockey man in charge of the team and the only direction the Habs are going to go is right to the SC. So quit worrying about every move that's made by the Habs, if they move Nygren it will be for the best interests of the team.

I don't see him as being fundamentally different from all the others that have been here for the last two decades. He's had more success, he's done some right things and he hasn't done some of the bone headed things that have gone on before but to me it's just more of the same in a shiny, new container.

 

[Treb]

I don't see him as being fundamentally different from all the others that have been here for the last two decades. He's had more success, he's done some right things and he hasn't done some of the bone headed things that have gone on before but to me it's just more of the same in a shiny, new container.

The underlined doesn't go with the bold.

He did a better job, but he's as bad as the others?

 

[Frozenice]

We traded Kristo for Thomas.

Leblanc busted.

Collberg+this year 2nd were given for a cup run that almost worked.

Same for the 5th from Weaver.

We also got a 5th back from the Vanek trade.

Look at our prospect pool and tell me it was better in 2012.

You also seem to not understand that every team sacrifices bits of their pool when they think they can win. See the penguins last year, LA when they got Gaborik, NYR when they got ST-Louis, STL when they got Miller. You have to give to get.

I mean, having a good prospect pool is fine and dandy, but the Stanley Cup doesn't go to the team with the shiniest pool, it goes to the team with the NHL roster that plays best. If all you do is amass prospects, you just end up being the Oilers.

The problem the Oilers had was they had no prospect pool and they had no depth, no one to call up when they had problems.Teams that have good prospect pools don't stay sunken in the basement once they acquire a few high end players. I watched a lot of those games when the Oilers were in the absolute bottom and their team and their prospect pool was abysmal.

They had no centres or D men in their system which is almost the same problem we might have in 2 or 3 years. A D man we draft in the 3rd or 4th round in this years draft probably won't be ready for top 4 NHL duty until 2020, if he's even good enough then.


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Look at our prospect pool and tell me it was better in 2012.

I'll give MB credit for what he actually did, not for what Gauthier did.

Gauthier got fired because he had depleted the prospect pool and when he had trouble in 2012 there was nothing he could do. He got Kaberle and Bourque because that was all he could afford, not because they were the best players available. He traded AK and Gill because the gig was up, there was nothing else he could do.

 

[InglewoodJack]

Hey, what's the word on Mccarron? I've only heard bad things about him. I dunno.

 

[sharks9]

I don't see him as being fundamentally different from all the others that have been here for the last two decades. He's had more success, he's done some right things and he hasn't done some of the bone headed things that have gone on before but to me it's just more of the same in a shiny, new container.

What did you expect MB to have done in these 2 years that he hasn't done?

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

yeah MB's going to trade DLR for Biggs next, lol.

Come on. LL could've been given more of a chance but he still never seemed to really improve in his 3 years as a pro. Time to move on. Bournival's a better version of him anyway.

Collberg was struggling and we have at least 3 wingers like him that have been developing better.

Nygren should be given a shot but we have plenty of D men. Leaving Hamilton and then b*tching about it to the papers is not a good move. If Nygren is that big a baby that he can't even come back to NA where the team he's under contract to wants him, then I have no problem letting him go.

Everybody laughs about character but really he just needs to suck it up. Hamilton is not that bad plus it's being gentrified ti sh#t while Nygren was here and as we speak. We're not talking about a typhoid/dysentery-ridden African village here. That culture shock talk is a crock.

 

[Bullsmith]

The problem the Oilers had was they had no prospect pool and they had no depth, no one to call up when they had problems.Teams that have good prospect pools don't stay sunken in the basement once they acquire a few high end players. I watched a lot of those games when the Oilers were in the absolute bottom and their team and their prospect pool was abysmal.

They had no centres or D men in their system which is almost the same problem we might have in 2 or 3 years. A D man we draft in the 3rd or 4th round in this years draft probably won't be ready for top 4 NHL duty until 2020, if he's even good enough then.


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I'll give MB credit for what he actually did, not for what Gauthier did.

Gauthier got fired because he had depleted the prospect pool and when he had trouble in 2012 there was nothing he could do. He got Kaberle and Bourque because that was all he could afford, not because they were the best players available. He traded AK and Gill because the gig was up, there was nothing else he could do.

These two trades were major disasters on PG's part to my mind. The team was going south fast and he brought in two guys on long-term problem contracts. Neither had a reputation as any kind of asset off the ice, on the ice they were in semi-decline and their contracts were terrible and, in Borque's case, came with serious term. That is just handicapping the organization. PG's job was to dump problems and accumulate assets for the next team not bring new long term problems in. In the end when we did tank he did a decent job of setting things up for MB, bot both the Borque and Kaberle acquisitions were classic "trying to save my job even if it screws the org for years" kind of moves.

 

[Frozenice]

These two trades were major disasters on PG's part to my mind. The team was going south fast and he brought in two guys on long-term problem contracts. Neither had a reputation as any kind of asset off the ice, on the ice they were in semi-decline and their contracts were terrible and, in Borque's case, came with serious term. That is just handicapping the organization. PG's job was to dump problems and accumulate assets for the next team not bring new long term problems in. In the end when we did tank he did a decent job of setting things up for MB, bot both the Borque and Kaberle acquisitions were classic "trying to save my job even if it screws the org for years" kind of moves.

I'm half expecting MB to making similar deals in 2 or 3 years. I think Gauthier was a lot cooler under pressure then MB will ever be and when things start to unravel I really don't think MB is the guy to have running the show.

Besides this is a fickle and unforgiving place, especially if we don't make the playoffs for a year or two and that is bound to happen, sooner or later.

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I'm done here, it's not the end of the world we lost a bunch of top prospects for almost nothing, it's just that I don't agree with how things are handled and long term it's not good asset management. Maybe we'll find the next Benn or Lidstrom, Timmins is certainly capable of doing that and that can make up for a lot of other mistakes.

 

[WeThreeKings]

If he doesn't earn a spot. I hope that the habs at the very least wait til camp and try him out a bit. Hell, give him a game or two in the regular season. If it's the difference between moving a young asset or not, it's worth the risk.

The way the article reads to me is that he will go to training camp and try to make the Habs. If he doesn't make it, then they will look at trading him to another team, if not then he will go back to Sweden. He's just not going back to Hamilton.

Gorges-Subban
Beaulieu-Weaver
Emelin-Nygren..
Veteran D-man..

Dont see Therrien going with two rookies on D.

 

[Analyzer*]

We traded away Kristo, Leblanc, Collberg and this year's 2nd, plus a 5th each for Weaver and Drewiske and all we've got back is a 3rd for Cole and Thomas and we're better now then before?

We'll see 2 or 3 years from now, especially if there's another Vanek type of deal at next year's trade deadline that's too good too pass up on. There's lots of things that can and do go wrong, like player's getting injured, contract squabbles, players asking to be traded, the coach is an idiot, etc, etc.

We got the Islanders fifth rounder, too.

 

[QuebecPride]

Vladimir Kamenev? Big, solid Russian centerman.

Anyone?

Kamenev is certainly interesting for the draft, but he's slated to go early/mid 2nd round. I wouldn't mind him as our first rounder, but I doubt it'll happen.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I think it is more what does Magnus Nygren wants to do. I really hope he decides to come back. I really think he is our best defenseman prospect...plus he is RD man that can also play the PP....which is what we really need for the big club. I had also read somewhere that he knew he did a stupid thing in leaving Hamilton....but does not want to play there. He would rather continue to develop in the SHL until he is ready to play in the NHL.
I don't think he is the first European to decided to go this route of playing in Europe until he is ready for the NHL( instead of going the AHL route)


Here a link saying Montreal wants him to come back to North America. It was posted on June 05, 2014....plus the translation.
http://www.hockeysverige.se/tag/magnus-nygren/?theme=handheld


Posted on June 5, 2014 by Uffe Bodin

It does not look to be any Magnus Nygren in Färjestadsvägen autumn. According Värmland Folkblad have the Montreal Canadiens, who owns the rights to the World Cup hill, Nygren announced that they want him in North America next season.

Magnus Nygren tested their luck in North America this season, but did not last long in the Montreal Canadiens farm team the Hamilton Bulldogs in the AHL. After only 16 games, he came home to Karlstad and finished the season with Färjestadsvägen in the most impressive way that he played for himself a place in the Swedish World Cup squad and took bronze in Minsk.

Färjestadsvägen had hope that Nygren could be considered for play in SHL also in the fall if he did not take place in the NHL. Now, Montréal, however, have informed the 23-year-old and his agents that they want him to stay in North America throughout the season, says Värmland Folkblad.
- We'll see how it goes, but I want an answer as soon as possible, he says to the newspaper.

Magnus Nygren has previously said in several interviews that he does not intend to return to Hamilton again. However, the Montreal Canadiens have the final say in the matter. Nygren get the chance to show he belongs in the NHL when training camp kicks off in September.

it would be nice if we could at least increase his trade value playing in the pros with us for a bit. that shot is too lethal.

Injuries are worrying me. I'm taking the wait and see approach. He's really smart, and he is versatile. Will he be too slow to adjust? Will he be too weak to handle the physicality? It will be the first time for him (outside of the WJC) that he'll have to earn his spot, it won't be given to him. I think he'll be fun to watch as he can dangle and score from anywhere.

My expectations for him are around 40 points. He has the talent to get as much, it will depend on his adjustments and if his body can hold on.

If he gets around 40 points, I'll be happy. If he gets under 30, I'll be disappointed. It will certainly also depend of his role, but there is room for him in the top6.

thanks, QP. Always liked and trusted your reports. Really think his fate lies in the weight room. He's got some very nice tools.

 

[Whitesnake]

2 year deal for Reway with Sparta Praha?

https://translate.google.com/transl...&ie=UTF-8&u=http://*******/1vs9PFM&edit-text=

 

[NoNachoNoParty]

Iv'e been a Habs fan for a while, and never have i had that sense of security as fan that the team is going in the right way since the Cole trade where MB said ''the important part is the 3rd rounder we got back''. Man that thinks and acts like that, i really dont think we should be worried.

 

[BIG GIFS]

You can't build a contender in one year, sure we went for the cup this year but I'm sure a lot of circumstances pushed Bergevin in thinking we had the necessary momentum to go all the way this year (Price rolling on his Olympic high, PK Subban being in his big contract year.) But even thought we thought we had a chance this year we can't derail from our plan for the future and I think we are in very good hands with Bergevin and co.

Our team is still young and I think we will be true contender when Price-Subban-Pacioretty-Eller will be around 27-29 years old (and entering their prime) and that players like Galchenyuk-Gallagher-Tinordi-Beaulieu-Bournival will have more experience.

Then you ask yourself the question, which player from the actual team will we have down the road?

Will we throw away the towel on David Desharnais ? David Desharnais first 284 games = 173 points // Martin St. Louis first 293 games = 177 points, both are/were 27 years old, both were over PPG in the AHL. To keep up with St-Louis productivity, Desharnais would have to become a PPG next year for the rest of his career. Could it happens? Why not? I wouldn't bet my house on it but I've seen stranger thing happens, he sure showed in the past that he can overcome the odds. I'm sure he doesn't want to live throught the same thing that happened at the beginning of the year again, he has a lot of pride and I think he can be an important piece for our team in the future.

Will we keep Alexei Emelin and will he get better? He only played 179 games in the NHL, it's not a lot and in my opinion he only can get better with more experience. He seemed overwhelmed at time last year but he hasn't even played two full seasons yet, let's call it a sophomore slump.

Will Tomas Plekanec still be with our team? I think he could be a good role model for younger players coming up in this league. Having a player that you drafted that stayed all his career with the team while having the work ethic that he has is of great value for an organization. The same goes for Josh Gorges even thought I'm not a big fan of his skills. He helped Brendan Gallagher a lot when he was coming up in the league, I know there is a western connection for those two, but could we see the same thing happen with Gorges/Thrower?

What about our Bottom 6? Will we still have players like Brendan Prust, Dale Weise or Ryan White in our lineup? I think that in 3-4 years they could still go. Michael McCaron, Jérémy Grégoire, Connor Crisp or Jack Nevins also could make their way into our Bottom 6 come that time if they develop well.

We sure won't go 3-4 years without trading at least one of the players I have already named or without signing any UFA, so it's hard to judge the team as we could add an impact player at any time like we did with Vanek (UFA/Trade/Draft/RFA?)

We also don't know if any of Andrighetto, Beaulieu, Bournival, Pateryn, Tinordi, Thomas, Dietz, Hudon, Grégoire, Bozon, Bennett, Carr, De La Rose, Lehkonen, Nygren or Reway could turn into a Top 6 F or Top 4 D in the next 3-4 years. The same goes for the players that we will draft in the next few drafts which will all have the potential to contribute for our team one day.

Time is the only thing that will tell us what is going to happen but I can't feel anything but excited about this team going forward and I can't wait for the draft in 11 days.

 

[QuebecPride]

thanks, QP. Always liked and trusted your reports. Really think his fate lies in the weight room. He's got some very nice tools.

It's my pleasure.