2003 draft - best ever?

[Belizarius]

With Nilsson signing with NYI, i was wondering if the 2003 class was the best ever.
2 years after the draft, Boyle is the lone player not under contract. And a lot of players are probably going to make their NHL debut in october.
With guys like O'Sullivan, Bergeron or Fritsche in the 2nd round... nearly the whole 2nd round is also under contract...!

Just to remember :
1 Pittsburgh Marc-Andre Fleury G
2 Carolina Eric Staal C
3 Florida Nathan Horton C
4 Columbus Nikolai Zherdev R
5 Buffalo Thomas Vanek W
6 San Jose Milan Michalek
7 Nashville Ryan Suter D
8 Atlanta Braydon Coburn D
9 Calgary Dion Phaneuf D
10 Mtl. Canadiens Andrei Kostitsyn W
11 Philadelphia Jeff Carter C
12 NY Rangers Hugh Jessiman F
13 Los Angeles Dustin Brown R
14 Chicago Brent Seabrook D
15 NY Islanders Robert Nilsson R
16 San Jose Steve Bernier R
17 New Jersey Zach Parise C
18 Washington Eric Fehr R
19 Anaheim Ryan Getzlaf C
20 Minnesota Brent Burns D
21 Boston Mark Stuart D
22 Edmonton Marc-Antoine Pouliot C
23 Vancouver Ryan Kesler C
24 Philadelphia Mike Richards C
25 Florida Anthony Stewart R
26 Los Angeles Brian Boyle F
27 Los Angeles Jeff Tambellini
28 Anaheim Corey Perry R
29 Ottawa Patrick Eaves F
30 St. Louis Shawn Belle D (traded to Dallas)

So, can we say 2003 draft is at the same level as 1979?

Click to read more...

 

[Patty Ice]

So, can we say 2003 draft is at the same level as 1979?

The potential is definitely there to exceed it but a few more years are needed to say with any certainty.

 

[Legionnaire]

Still too early to really say. Just because all, minus Boyle, have recieved contracts, it doesn't mean that they will produce or have NHL careers anything similar to the class of 79'

FYI: Boyle most likely will be signed in the end. He was drafted as a project with the intention of letting him develop in great college hockey program like the one he plays at in BC

 

[nuck]

With Nilsson signing with NYI, i was wondering if the 2003 class was the best ever.
2 years after the draft, Boyle is the lone player not under contract. And a lot of players are probably going to make their NHL debut in october.
With guys like O'Sullivan, Bergeron or Fritsche in the 2nd round... nearly the whole 2nd round is also under contract...!

Just to remember :
1 Pittsburgh Marc-Andre Fleury G
2 Carolina Eric Staal C
3 Florida Nathan Horton C
4 Columbus Nikolai Zherdev R
5 Buffalo Thomas Vanek W
6 San Jose Milan Michalek
7 Nashville Ryan Suter D
8 Atlanta Braydon Coburn D
9 Calgary Dion Phaneuf D
10 Mtl. Canadiens Andrei Kostitsyn W
11 Philadelphia Jeff Carter C
12 NY Rangers Hugh Jessiman F
13 Los Angeles Dustin Brown R
14 Chicago Brent Seabrook D
15 NY Islanders Robert Nilsson R
16 San Jose Steve Bernier R
17 New Jersey Zach Parise C
18 Washington Eric Fehr R
19 Anaheim Ryan Getzlaf C
20 Minnesota Brent Burns D
21 Boston Mark Stuart D
22 Edmonton Marc-Antoine Pouliot C
23 Vancouver Ryan Kesler C
24 Philadelphia Mike Richards C
25 Florida Anthony Stewart R
26 Los Angeles Brian Boyle F
27 Los Angeles Jeff Tambellini
28 Anaheim Corey Perry R
29 Ottawa Patrick Eaves F
30 St. Louis Shawn Belle D (traded to Dallas)

So, can we say 2003 draft is at the same level as 1979?

They haven't done anything yet except look promising No team Captains, Hall of Famers, post season allstars or 700 goal scorers to be found. You better bring this thread back in a few years.

 

[Belizarius]

well with 7 players from the 1st round in the NHL for the 2003-2004 season, and 2 more in the 2nd, I think it was already a record.

I agree with you, time will tell... but I don't remember such a "score" in the 1st round since... well even 1998 which was one of the best. Precocity at least...
Big expectations for every 1st rounder because of their success at their junior-college-europe level. But nothing achieved yet.

 

[bleedgreen]

didnt the 79m draft combine a couple of years? i think this draft has to be recognized at this point just because this isnt the case this year. of course, their careers have to play out to see if the guys become high end players or not - but it seems to amongst the most impressive ever regardless at this point. wasnt the 87 also a great draft?

 

[Hedberg]

didnt the 79m draft combine a couple of years?

Yes. It combined 2 birth years.

 

[Douggy]

I was especially pleased with Toronto's selection that year!!

Oh wait.

We didn't have a pick in the first round.

 

[turnbuckle*]

well with 7 players from the 1st round in the NHL for the 2003-2004 season, and 2 more in the 2nd, I think it was already a record.

Here were the first rounders from 1979. I did a little research - every player drafted in 1979 was an NHL regular by the end of the next season. That is the record, and it will never be matched.

To compare the 2003 draft class with this revered bunch two years after the draft is ridiculous to say the least. In 1982 everyone thought Perry Turnbull was going to be the next great NHL power forward. He ended up being one of the worst selections from the first round when all was said and done:


Rob Ramage
Perry Turnbull
Mike Foligno
Mike Gartner
Rick Vaive
Craig Hartsburg
Keith Brown
Ray Bourque
Laurie Boschman
Tom McCarthy
Mike Ramsey
Paul Reinhart
Doug Sulliman
Brian Propp
Brad McCrimmon
Jay Wells
Duane Sutter
Ray Allison
Jimmy Mann
Michel Goulet
Kevin Lowe

Let's take a look at the defenceman taken inthe two drafts.


Phaneuf
Coburn
Suter
Seabrook
Stuart
Belle
Burns


vs.

Bourque
Ramage
Lowe
Reinhart
Hartsburg
Ramsey
McCrimmon
Wells
Brown

Phaneuf can only dream about being as good as Bourque was; same thing for Coburn in comparison to Ramage. Suter will have done well if he has half the career Hartsburg did before succumbing to back problems. The last four shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath with Lowe and Reinhart; maybe they'll become that good, but it will take a pile of overachieving. Add in steady, steady, longtime blueliners like Ramsey, Wells and McCrimmon, and there's no comparison; you'd have to take about five forwards off the 2003 list just to even things out, if not more.


1979 had ZERO first round busts. At this point, there are no guarantees that Kostitsyn, Jessiman, Nilsson, Burns, Bernier, Boyle, Eaves and Belle will all be productive NHLers someday. Maybe they'll all become NHL regulars, maybe they won't. Fact is, every player from the 1979 draft was an NHL regular within 50 games of the 1979-80 regular season, and many went on to all-star careers.

Bourque became a perrennial all-star right from the get go, Goulet, Lowe, Gartner, Hartsburg and Propp soon followed.

I don't see any players from the 2003 draft becoming all stars for at least another two or three years; hell, there's a chance none will become first or second all-star team selections during their careers, unlike Goulet who made three firsts and two second all star teams, or Bourque, who made the second all-star team six times, and the first team on 12 occasions.

Carter and Staal will be up against Crosby, Malkin, Thornton, Ruutu, Lecavlier, Richards, Spezza, and the like every year.

On defence Phaneuf and Suter will have to be better than Pronger, Lidstrom, Blake, Foote, Neidermayer, Jovo, etc. in the present; Redden, Chara, Regehr, Stuart, Hannan, Jackman, Brewer, Fischer, in the present and future; Pitkanen, Bouwmeester, Hamhuis, Kronwall, Johnson, Staal, Bourdon, Barker, Smid, Grebeshkov, Klesla, Komisarek, et al in the future. It won't be an easy task.

I'll go out on a sturdy limb and say no player taken in the 2003 draft will have a career that matches Bourque's, or Goulet's for that matter.

Lowe played in 7 all star game, Ramage and Ramsey four apiece. Hartsburg played in only three all-star games due to injury, but he also appeared in two Canada Cups. Propp, Lowe and Gartner played in Canada Cups as well.


1979 will never be equalled, mainly because they had the extra year of older draft eligible players, and at least a handful of prospects had already shown they could play at the pro level in the WHA (Hartsburg, Ramage, Goulet, Gartner). We should not forget that it was Gretzky and Messier's draft year either. Add them to the mix and tell me if 2003 will ever equal it.


This past draft may have come close if it had been delayed until 2006. Kessel, Crosby, Frolik, Ryan, Johnson, Sheppard, Toews, Mueller, Staal (x2), Brule........looks a helluva lot better than Michalek, Coburn, Fleury, Suter, Phaneuf, Zherdev, Horton, Staal, Jessiman, Kostitsyn IMO. Having that extra year of drafting certainly makes a huge difference.

 

[Hawkhead]

You said the last four defensemen shouldnt be mentioned in the same breath as Lowe.


But


Seabrook > Suter

Seabrook > Cobourn



PERIOD.


he's a lock to make the team this year and played on WJC's two years in a row.

 

[jcorb58]

You can not fairly compare when 79 not only combined 2 drafts but the first round was only 21 players. If we were to combine the best 21 players of the 2003 and 04 drafts then we may have a more accurate comparision. One also must take into consideration that 4 teams were added which would make your chance at an NHL job a bit easier. I probubly would still be leaning towards the 79 draft because we wont really tell for about 20 yrs to see how everyone turned out

1- Ovechkin
2- Malkin
3- Fleury
4- Staal
5- Zherdev
6- Horton
7- Barker
8- Vanek
9- Michalek
10- Suter
11- Ladd
12- Olesz
13- Coburn
14- Phaneuf
15- Smid
16- Kostitsyn
17- Tukonen
18- Carter
19- Wheeler
20- Picard
21- Brown

From 79 i wasnt terribly impressed with Wells, Mann, Turnbull, Allison or Sulliman. They were OK but not great so the above class can have 5 weak links also.

 

[Legionnaire]

You said the last four defensemen shouldnt be mentioned in the same breath as Lowe.


But


Seabrook > Suter

Seabrook > Cobourn



PERIOD.


he's a lock to make the team this year and played on WJC's two years in a row.

That's some good stuff right there.

 

[SenatorPhil]

1979 had ZERO first round busts. At this point, there are no guarantees that Kostitsyn, Jessiman, Nilsson, Burns, Bernier, Boyle, Eaves and Belle will all be productive NHLers someday. Maybe they'll all become NHL regulars, maybe they won't. Fact is, every player from the 1979 draft was an NHL regular within 50 games of the 1979-80 regular season, and many went on to all-star careers.

I believe Patrick Eaves is rated as a 7a prospect and is pretty much guaranteed to be at worst a 3rd liner. He is likely going to be playing on opening night against the Leafs of October fifth. I'd say he is one of the safest bets in that draft year to make the NHL and have moderate success. Hardly a potential bust.

 

[salty justice]

Here were the first rounders from 1979. I did a little research - every player drafted in 1979 was an NHL regular by the end of the next season. That is the record, and it will never be matched.

To compare the 2003 draft class with this revered bunch two years after the draft is ridiculous to say the least. In 1982 everyone thought Perry Turnbull was going to be the next great NHL power forward. He ended up being one of the worst selections from the first round when all was said and done:


Rob Ramage
Perry Turnbull
Mike Foligno
Mike Gartner
Rick Vaive
Craig Hartsburg
Keith Brown
Ray Bourque
Laurie Boschman
Tom McCarthy
Mike Ramsey
Paul Reinhart
Doug Sulliman
Brian Propp
Brad McCrimmon
Jay Wells
Duane Sutter
Ray Allison
Jimmy Mann
Michel Goulet
Kevin Lowe

Let's take a look at the defenceman taken inthe two drafts.


Phaneuf
Coburn
Suter
Seabrook
Stuart
Belle
Burns


vs.

Bourque
Ramage
Lowe
Reinhart
Hartsburg
Ramsey
McCrimmon
Wells
Brown

Phaneuf can only dream about being as good as Bourque was; same thing for Coburn in comparison to Ramage. Suter will have done well if he has half the career Hartsburg did before succumbing to back problems. The last four shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath with Lowe and Reinhart; maybe they'll become that good, but it will take a pile of overachieving. Add in steady, steady, longtime blueliners like Ramsey, Wells and McCrimmon, and there's no comparison; you'd have to take about five forwards off the 2003 list just to even things out, if not more.


1979 had ZERO first round busts. At this point, there are no guarantees that Kostitsyn, Jessiman, Nilsson, Burns, Bernier, Boyle, Eaves and Belle will all be productive NHLers someday. Maybe they'll all become NHL regulars, maybe they won't. Fact is, every player from the 1979 draft was an NHL regular within 50 games of the 1979-80 regular season, and many went on to all-star careers.

Bourque became a perrennial all-star right from the get go, Goulet, Lowe, Gartner, Hartsburg and Propp soon followed.

I don't see any players from the 2003 draft becoming all stars for at least another two or three years; hell, there's a chance none will become first or second all-star team selections during their careers, unlike Goulet who made three firsts and two second all star teams, or Bourque, who made the second all-star team six times, and the first team on 12 occasions.

Carter and Staal will be up against Crosby, Malkin, Thornton, Ruutu, Lecavlier, Richards, Spezza, and the like every year.

On defence Phaneuf and Suter will have to be better than Pronger, Lidstrom, Blake, Foote, Neidermayer, Jovo, etc. in the present; Redden, Chara, Regehr, Stuart, Hannan, Jackman, Brewer, Fischer, in the present and future; Pitkanen, Bouwmeester, Hamhuis, Kronwall, Johnson, Staal, Bourdon, Barker, Smid, Grebeshkov, Klesla, Komisarek, et al in the future. It won't be an easy task.

I'll go out on a sturdy limb and say no player taken in the 2003 draft will have a career that matches Bourque's, or Goulet's for that matter.

Lowe played in 7 all star game, Ramage and Ramsey four apiece. Hartsburg played in only three all-star games due to injury, but he also appeared in two Canada Cups. Propp, Lowe and Gartner played in Canada Cups as well.


1979 will never be equalled, mainly because they had the extra year of older draft eligible players, and at least a handful of prospects had already shown they could play at the pro level in the WHA (Hartsburg, Ramage, Goulet, Gartner). We should not forget that it was Gretzky and Messier's draft year either. Add them to the mix and tell me if 2003 will ever equal it.


This past draft may have come close if it had been delayed until 2006. Kessel, Crosby, Frolik, Ryan, Johnson, Sheppard, Toews, Mueller, Staal (x2), Brule........looks a helluva lot better than Michalek, Coburn, Fleury, Suter, Phaneuf, Zherdev, Horton, Staal, Jessiman, Kostitsyn IMO. Having that extra year of drafting certainly makes a huge difference.

It is a little insane to make such a long post comparing many great players and hall of famers to guys who have not had a chance to prove themselves at all yet. But then again it also is to start a thread proposing such an idea.

We'll see in 10-20 years which draft is better

 

[thestonedkoala]

That's some good stuff right there.

And I thought I was the stoned one...

 

[turnbuckle*]

It is a little insane to make such a long post comparing many great players and hall of famers to guys who have not had a chance to prove themselves at all yet. But then again it also is to start a thread proposing such an idea.

We'll see in 10-20 years which draft is better

Here is a line from my post; perhaps you missed it:
"To compare the 2003 draft class with this revered bunch two years after the draft is ridiculous to say the least."


I believe my post focussed on the greatness of the 1979 draft, and wasn't meant to come across as a comparison, merely a demonstration of just how good the 2003 draft would have to be to compete with it. Yeah; it did get a little lengthy, and yes, I prolly wasted an hour of my time - I have a passion for the history of the draft. Hope it didn't take you that long to read.

 

[Draft Guru]

You said the last four defensemen shouldnt be mentioned in the same breath as Lowe.


But


Seabrook > Suter

Seabrook > Cobourn



PERIOD.


he's a lock to make the team this year and played on WJC's two years in a row.

I was talking to PredatorHead, he says:

Suter > Seabrook
Suter > Coburn

Then I talked to Thrasher head, and he said:

Coburn > Seabrook
Coburn > Suter

I wish I knew the reason for such discrepancy

 

[kruezer]

You can not fairly compare when 79 not only combined 2 drafts but the first round was only 21 players. If we were to combine the best 21 players of the 2003 and 04 drafts then we may have a more accurate comparision. One also must take into consideration that 4 teams were added which would make your chance at an NHL job a bit easier. I probubly would still be leaning towards the 79 draft because we wont really tell for about 20 yrs to see how everyone turned out

1- Ovechkin
2- Malkin
3- Fleury
4- Staal
5- Zherdev
6- Horton
7- Barker
8- Vanek
9- Michalek
10- Suter
11- Ladd
12- Olesz
13- Coburn
14- Phaneuf
15- Smid
16- Kostitsyn
17- Tukonen
18- Carter
19- Wheeler
20- Picard
21- Brown

From 79 i wasnt terribly impressed with Wells, Mann, Turnbull, Allison or Sulliman. They were OK but not great so the above class can have 5 weak links also.

I concur, its unfair to judge other drafts versus the '79 draft since it combined two draft years.

 

[GnomE]

1979 draft cheated and should be disqualified from the competition

 

[KingPurpleDinosaur]

turnbuckle, great post and i agree with u on pretty much all points. i really don't see a bourque coming out of the 2003 draft and there are some definite question marks that you hit the nail right on the head for. perhaps the only real disagreement is including eaves on the potential bust list as i don't think he's goin to be a bust. but thats a fairly minor disagrement

 

[jcpenny]

I still think that 93 is right up there in the best drafts. Pronger, Kariya, Deadmarsh, Allison, Bertuzzi, Koivu, Arnott, Kozlov, Gratton, Niedermayer, Thibeault, Jonsson, Witt, Sundstrom, daigle... Full of good NHL regulars but 2003 is full of potential stars.

 

[turnbuckle*]

turnbuckle, great post and i agree with u on pretty much all points. i really don't see a bourque coming out of the 2003 draft and there are some definite question marks that you hit the nail right on the head for. perhaps the only real disagreement is including eaves on the potential bust list as i don't think he's goin to be a bust. but thats a fairly minor disagrement

I agree; I mulled over the Eaves inclusion for quite awhile. I decided to include him because I was not listing guys who I thought would be busts, but perhaps just not productive NHLers, not to say they won't play in the league.

As for (surprise, surprise) a Hawks fan's contention that Seabrook is better than Suter and Coburn "period"....give your head a shake.

You don't think Suter played in two WJCs as well? Does Seabrook's international resume compare to this?


Gold medal - 2004 World Junior Championship
Participant- 2003 World Junior Championship
Gold medal - 2002 World Under-18 Championship
Best Defenseman award - 2002 World Under-18 Championships
Gold medal - 2002 under-17 World Hockey Challenge
Best Defenseman award - 2001 Four Nations tournament

Coburn also played in the last two WJC's so your comment about Seabrook's supposed feat, matched by the other two, only tells us that you know very little about the other players.

 

[BuppY]

one of the best for sure.

 

[Brock]

I agree; I mulled over the Eaves inclusion for quite awhile. I decided to include him because I was not listing guys who I thought would be busts, but perhaps just not productive NHLers, not to say they won't play in the league.

As for (surprise, surprise) a Hawks fan's contention that Seabrook is better than Suter and Coburn "period"....give your head a shake.

You don't think Suter played in two WJCs as well? Does Seabrook's international resume compare to this?


Gold medal - 2004 World Junior Championship
Participant- 2003 World Junior Championship
Gold medal - 2002 World Under-18 Championship
Best Defenseman award - 2002 World Under-18 Championships
Gold medal - 2002 under-17 World Hockey Challenge
Best Defenseman award - 2001 Four Nations tournament

Coburn also played in the last two WJC's so your comment about Seabrook's supposed feat, matched by the other two, only tells us that you know very little about the other players.

Took the words right outta my mouth.

Not to mention you could keep going and dig him a further hole by mentioning that Suter and Coburn have just as good, if not better chances of making their NHL rosters this year. As well as the fact that Suter has a full year of AHL hockey under his belt where he was more then just an average contributor.

Seabrook is a very good prospect, hell I consider him pretty close with Coburn, and I feel that argument could be made. But comparing him to Suter and saying he's better then Suter is completely ludicrous and has no bounds for argument.

 

[Brock]

Here were the first rounders from 1979. I did a little research - every player drafted in 1979 was an NHL regular by the end of the next season. That is the record, and it will never be matched.

To compare the 2003 draft class with this revered bunch two years after the draft is ridiculous to say the least. In 1982 everyone thought Perry Turnbull was going to be the next great NHL power forward. He ended up being one of the worst selections from the first round when all was said and done:

Great post.

But I do think one thing to consider is the different eras we are comparing here. Now 1979 is before I was born, but I'm under the impression that prospects back then where much different then prospects now. As in that teams were going to use these drafted players as NHL regulars as soon as they were drafted, much as say the NFL or NBA does. As compared to today's time, where prospects are brought along slowly, guys take their time "developing."