GDT: #2| New York Islanders @ Tampa Bay Lightning | September 9th | 8:00 PM | F/L 2-1

[Uncle Duke]

I don't know where you are getting that. In his first 3 NHL seasons he was about a total -9 and had over 20 points each year. Similar season 4 and then at age 23 he really blossomed offensively.

I get that from living here, seeing a ton of their games both on tv and live and what the coaches and GM were saying at the time.

And don't forget what we're discussing here. Not whether Hedman was good or not, but whether the Isles would have stuck with him or whether Hedman would have stuck with the Isles. I don't think so.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Could be of interest for a few here:
Don’t Blame Greene and His Turnover for Kucherov Goal

 

[mm11]

Could be of interest for a few here:
Don’t Blame Greene and His Turnover for Kucherov Goal

man, watching Ladd on that play irked me too

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

man, watching Ladd on that play irked me too

To be honest, not only was Pulock like tits on a bull while Greene grabbed that puck AND while McDonagh made the pass over to Kucherov, but I also really have to ask why Pageau glided over to McDonagh so darn nonchalantly there?

Take a look at that.

Had he high-tailed it or even just thrown his body into the sweep pass McDonagh made, that play would never have even been made. Pageau kind of just started gliding into McDonagh while the puck was still a few feet away from him. Heck, he went into glide mode before that puck even made it to the goal line.

 

[leeroggy]

I get that from living here, seeing a ton of their games both on tv and live and what the coaches and GM were saying at the time.

And don't forget what we're discussing here. Not whether Hedman was good or not, but whether the Isles would have stuck with him or whether Hedman would have stuck with the Isles. I don't think so.

But you are giving no credence to the timeline. Chara was traded at the 2001 draft (which I attended and the Isles fans in attendance liked the trade for the most part there), and you also are giving Chara a lot of credit about his play with us, which was nowhere as good as you are saying. Hedman was drafted years later and Chara had already blossomed by then. You can't ignore the impact on a potential decision without taking that into account. By the time Hedman was drafted, Chara had already posted multiple Top line pairing years. Isles management would have felt a lot of pressure not to make the same mistake twice.

 

[GOLFWANG]

To be honest, not only was Pulock like tits on a bull while Greene grabbed that puck AND while McDonagh made the pass over to Kucherov, but I also really have to ask why Pageau glided over to McDonagh so non-chalantly there?

Take a look at that.

Had he high-tailed it or even just thrown his body into the sweep pass McDonagh made, that play would never have even been made. Pageau kind of just started gliding into McDonagh while the puck was still a few feet away from him.

You can't just blame one player on that one everyone that was on the ice is on fault IMO except Varly

they had 3 players in the vicinity of the islanders zone (we had all 5 players in our zone) during that pass so all 5 players were either not hustling or just puck watching

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

You can't just blame one player on that one everyone that was on the ice is on fault IMO except Varly

they had 3 players in the vicinity of the islanders zone (we had all 5 players in our zone) during that pass so all 5 players were either not hustling or just puck watching

In essence, there were a number of ways that goal against could have been avoided.

It's a game of inches and these guys are making a 100 decisions a night. Brutal when a few of their poorer ones combine to lead to such a back-breaking goal against.

I pointed out Pageau there, because I hadn't heard a word about his part in this - and hadn't noticed it either until watching that behind-the-goal replay a couple of times.

 

[GOLFWANG]

In essence, there were a number of ways that goal against could have been avoided.

It's a game of inches and these guys are making a 100 decisions a night. Brutal when a few of their poorer ones combine to lead to such a back-breaking goal against.

I pointed out Pageau there, because I hadn't heard a word about his part in this - and hadn't noticed it either until watching that behind-the-goal replay a couple of times.

I agree, They gotta limit mistakes because a team like Tampa has plenty of players that would score when other teams make mistakes.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

I don't see Toronto being anything for some reason despite the talent, there are depth issues all over the roster, which is why they choke.
New Jersey is going to be a very tough team they will probably hire Lavvy and they will be on their way
Rangers will slowly develop into something
Buffalo will need to get a real coach too they have a Cappy type
Ottawa is a long ways away... Chabot is just one player
Washington will probably hire Gallant and they will be on their way again

The waters are tough.. Evander Kane would help a lot I think... wonder what it would take to get him, provided Ladd ends up on Seattle. I think a guy like Tyson Barrie could help us he could come would not come cheap. Assume you deal Ladd to Seattle and send a first over there.. send Wahlstrom and Toews to Sharks for Kane, and sign Barrie. Mayfield gets lost in expansion. Andy Greene is kept on a cheap contract.

Kane/Barzal/Eberle
Beau/Nelson/Bailey
Lee/Pageau/Leo
MDC/Cizikas/Clutter

Pelech/Barrie
Leddy/Pulock
Greene/Dobson

We lose Martin I think he is a UFA, Brassard is gone too, same with Kuhnackl

There is not much on the UFA market that could be a sleeper maybe a cheap flyer on Vesey

Ew, Hard Pass on Tyson Barrie.

 

[Uncle Duke]

But you are giving no credence to the timeline. Chara was traded at the 2001 draft (which I attended and the Isles fans in attendance liked the trade for the most part there), and you also are giving Chara a lot of credit about his play with us, which was nowhere as good as you are saying. Hedman was drafted years later and Chara had already bloomed by then. You can't ignore the impact on a potential decision without taking that into account. By the time Hedman was drafted, Chara had already posted multiple Top line pairing years. Isles management would have felt a lot of pressure not to make the same mistake twice.

But the circumstances are different. The Chara move was made not because he was not fulfilling his potential, but because the Isles thought that they were getting a superstar back in Yashin. Had Hedman been here I believe that his failure to get that he had to play defense too, in an organization not committed to making investments in players in terms of money and coaching development, would have led them to at least strongly consider moving on from him. In any event, all of this is obviously subjective with no right or wrong answer. We just see it differently.

 

[PK Cronin]

Could be of interest for a few here:
Don’t Blame Greene and His Turnover for Kucherov Goal

I agree with this assessment and didn't think it was that egregious of a play by Greene at all (who is playing his off side too).

man, watching Ladd on that play irked me too

It shouldn't, Kucherov is not his responsibility at all.

To be honest, not only was Pulock like tits on a bull while Greene grabbed that puck AND while McDonagh made the pass over to Kucherov, but I also really have to ask why Pageau glided over to McDonagh so darn nonchalantly there?

Take a look at that.

Had he high-tailed it or even just thrown his body into the sweep pass McDonagh made, that play would never have even been made. Pageau kind of just started gliding into McDonagh while the puck was still a few feet away from him. Heck, he went into glide mode before that puck even made it to the goal line.

Pageau is trying to block the passing lane there, he squares up, puts his feet together, and puts his stick into position. He's more concerned with that than throwing the body. He was being cautious and hoped he could block it and/or buy time for his teammates to be in position to stop the pass.

You can't just blame one player on that one everyone that was on the ice is on fault IMO except Varly

they had 3 players in the vicinity of the islanders zone (we had all 5 players in our zone) during that pass so all 5 players were either not hustling or just puck watching

That's not how the defense works though. You can't blame other players because they didn't go to the open guy. The Islanders play a very specific style of defense that requires players to remain disciplined in who they are covering. Both wingers come down and cover the top of the hash marks like they're supposed to. Pulock is close enough to Kucherov that he should've been there and it's unreasonable to expect Ladd to shift over to him, he assumes Pulock is going to make that play (and he should). There's a lot of trust needed when playing defense properly and you can't have wingers panic and come to help the defense when it isn't necessary. Ladd and Komarov(?) are right where they're supposed to be making sure nobody comes into a prime scoring area. Pulock is taking a nap instead of tying up the most dangerous goal scorer on Tampa, while also having two teammates between him and the puck.

 

[armani]

The goal was the result of a series of unfortunate plays that happened Lightning fast (pun intended). Isles really deserved better, down 2-0 is tough.

Your team is more physical and TB is hurting atm. Time to pounce and work 1 win at a time.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Rehashing the goal is fine, I'm sure Barry is showing the boys video right now, but the 5 min PP and the 5-3 are why we lost, not that goal. Hopefully he is doing something to address that (though what, god only knows).

And it's not like we were guaranteed a victory in OT anyway.

 

[PK Cronin]

Rehashing the goal is fine, I'm sure Barry is showing the boys video right now, but the 5 min PP and the 5-3 are why we lost, not that goal. Hopefully he is doing something to address that (though what, god only knows).

And it's not like we were guaranteed a victory in OT anyway.

I like going over the video because it's a chance to learn instead of just giving a gut reaction, but you're right that it's not the only reason they lost. The five minute major was abysmal and that needs to result in at least one goal. The five on three was bad, but I'm more pissed off that Barzal didn't give the puck up right away to maximize the amount of time. Did he not know there was going to be a call? Did he just have a brain fart? I don't know, but that's a really big spot to have that kind of mistake. Then the execution that followed was piss poor.

 

[PaulGG]

The goal was the result of a series of unfortunate plays that happened Lightning fast (pun intended). Isles really deserved better, down 2-0 is tough.

Your team is more physical and TB is hurting atm. Time to pounce and work 1 win at a time.

Really ? Unfortunate is incorrect, Tampa created several high quality chances at the end. Isles meanwhile were on the way to the locker room content for OT.
Failure on PP by Isles was huge factor as well. Game three should be a war!

 

[Uncle Duke]

I like going over the video because it's a chance to learn instead of just giving a gut reaction, but you're right that it's not the only reason they lost. The five minute major was abysmal and that needs to result in at least one goal. The five on three was bad, but I'm more pissed off that Barzal didn't give the puck up right away to maximize the amount of time. Did he not know there was going to be a call? Did he just have a brain fart? I don't know, but that's a really big spot to have that kind of mistake. Then the execution that followed was piss poor.

Agree. Barzal is often credited with being a hockey geek who thinks the game and that kind of an error at that moment is pretty unforgiveable. I'm sure he won't make it again.

 

[Islesfan22]

Rehashing the goal is fine, I'm sure Barry is showing the boys video right now, but the 5 min PP and the 5-3 are why we lost, not that goal. Hopefully he is doing something to address that (though what, god only knows).

And it's not like we were guaranteed a victory in OT anyway.

The pp is the Achilles heel of this team. Sooner or later the pp was going to cost them a game. When you can’t score a goal on a major penalty and a 5 on 3 usually your going to lose those games. Islanders have only themselves to blame for not cashing in.

 

[GrandmaSlices51631]

At this point TB fans are probably focused mainly on who they'll play in the finals. It's actually kinda sad, considering the only real question is whether we beat them in 6 games or if it takes 7.

More like 4 or 5, sadly.

 

[ScaredStreit]

They had 9 forwards, we had a major penalty, a 5-on-3, and outshot them by a good margin. We still lost. It's over folks-it was a nice run let's hope this builds momentum up for next year.

 

[IslesCLT]

I don't see Toronto being anything for some reason despite the talent, there are depth issues all over the roster, which is why they choke.
New Jersey is going to be a very tough team they will probably hire Lavvy and they will be on their way
Rangers will slowly develop into something
Buffalo will need to get a real coach too they have a Cappy type
Ottawa is a long ways away... Chabot is just one player
Washington will probably hire Gallant and they will be on their way again

The waters are tough.. Evander Kane would help a lot I think... wonder what it would take to get him, provided Ladd ends up on Seattle. I think a guy like Tyson Barrie could help us he could come would not come cheap. Assume you deal Ladd to Seattle and send a first over there.. send Wahlstrom and Toews to Sharks for Kane, and sign Barrie. Mayfield gets lost in expansion. Andy Greene is kept on a cheap contract.

Kane/Barzal/Eberle
Beau/Nelson/Bailey
Lee/Pageau/Leo
MDC/Cizikas/Clutter

Pelech/Barrie
Leddy/Pulock
Greene/Dobson

We lose Martin I think he is a UFA, Brassard is gone too, same with Kuhnackl

There is not much on the UFA market that could be a sleeper maybe a cheap flyer on Vesey

Think you're misunderstanding the expansion draft...it's not until after next season. We have to address things before next season just to create enough cap space to sign our RFAs

 

[xIsle]

True he did play earlier on, he was pretty green at the point of his career, but played a role, probably helped him to be on that team a lot.

Certainly he was a rookie but he was nonetheless a regular during that season. He has played a total of 81 regular season games (20 in the AHL and 61 in the NHL). Not often a healthy scratch when you play more than 80 games! I have the impression that you forgot our famous "kid line" of that season formed by McInnis, Dalgarno and Green! If Green did not play against Montreal in 93, it is very likely that he must have been injured because he was present for the 12 of the first 13 games of the playoffs that year. Volek, who has never been injured that season, played 10 of 18 in the playoffs and 56 of 84 in the regular season.

 

[PK Cronin]

Agree. Barzal is often credited with being a hockey geek who thinks the game and that kind of an error at that moment is pretty unforgiveable. I'm sure he won't make it again.

I just hope he didn't recognize that the call was coming so he didn't pay any attention. I could stomach that, but knowing it's coming and not giving the puck up...

 

[Uncle Duke]

I just hope he didn't recognize that the call was coming so he didn't pay any attention. I could stomach that, but knowing it's coming and not giving the puck up...

Yup. Though the sad reality is that the extra 10 seconds or whatever probably doesn't make a difference with our lame PP.

 

[Barz1]

More like 4 or 5, sadly.

I say 4 if TB wins friday, and 5 if Isles win Friday

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I just hope he didn't recognize that the call was coming so he didn't pay any attention. I could stomach that, but knowing it's coming and not giving the puck up...

To defend Barzal slightly, I think it depends on the situation. Sure, typically you see teams give the puck up right away to get a longer 5on3, but I think a smarter play is for the puck carrier to evaluate his options and see whether there's a guy wide open he can pass to since the opposition might also assume you're just going to hand them the puck and they get lax in coverage.

I actually remember the Pens scoring on Montreal on a similar play. Pens were already on the PP, I believe, then Montreal took another one. Montreal took for granted that the Pens would let up and just hand them the puck, but instead Crosby lifted the stick of a defender, grabbed the puck and quickly sent it to Malkin, who then quickly zipped a cross ice pass to Hornqvist to one-time it in, all because Montreal kind of let up when they saw it was about to be a 5on3.

I can't recall the play perfectly, so maybe it didn't apply. If Barzal just decided to circle around the perimeter for 5 seconds instead of handing it straight to a Lightning player, then yes, that was bad. But if he held onto it for a bit longer to see if there was a golden opportunity to score, I don't think you can fault him.