2/15 game-Red Deer vs Portland, Phaneuf vs Coburn

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by Whawks33, Feb 16, 2005.

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  1. Whawks33

    Whawks33 Registered User

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    OK, before I make any comments, points I'll conceed ahead of time: Yes, Red Deer is in the middle of a road trip,their Western Conference swing (but this is only the second game of that trip). Yes Brent Sutter was back home to attend his father's funeral. And Yes, I have home town bias. Another point to toss into the mix is that the majority of the Winter Hawks have some sort of flu/upper repiratory infection, as its running through the whole team player by player.

    Conceeding those points, there was still no question which team was better, and which defenseman was better: Winter Hawks and Coburn. Phaneuf did score a goal, and demonstrate a rocket like shot from the point, but that was all he demonstrated. He yapped at the Hawks and specifically at Coburn all night. When Coburn finally called him out and said "come on let's go", Phaneuf was no where to be found. I expected to see a defenseman who has a physical presence, as that's what I've read about Phaneuf. I left the game wondering where that defenseman was last night. Both Phaneuf and his team were pushed around by the Hawks, and it seemed the only answer the Phaneuf and the Rebels had was a lot of talk. Coburn didn't show much on the scoresheet, save for penalties, but he was all over the ice tonight, and handled Red Deers forwards like they were just so much piles of fluff. He manhanded each and every one that came near him. The same cannot be said for Phaneuf. He lost a number of one on one board battles, and was shall we say shown to his seat on the ice ( as in landing on his seat) more than a few times. It was only one game, but considering the comparisions these two defenseman will draw their whole careers, this round clearly went to Coburn. Oh yeah, by the way, the Winter Hawks dominated the Rebels, winning 7-2.
     
  2. Phaneuf >>> Coburn
     
  3. Taxman

    Taxman Registered User

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    From everyting I have read, Coburn has really come on lately, playing like someone who was picked as the #1 defenseman in his draft. :handclap:
     
  4. MrMastodonFarm*

    MrMastodonFarm* Registered User

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    Great report from an unbiased Winterhawks fan. :lol
     
  5. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    Coburn can have this game while Phaneuf can have every other game ever being played since being drafted and also making himself look like a true #1 defenseman in the WJ the last 2 years, whole Coburn in that tourny has looked like a #5/6 defenseman.

    1 game vs 2 years of very solid play....you do the math, smart guy.
     
  6. bruins4777*

    bruins4777* Guest

    ^He never said coburn was clearly better than phaneuf. He just said that in this game, coburn was much better. He also acknowledged he might be biased.

    Its quite pathetic that as soon as one guy comes out and says coburn played better than phaneuf in one game its "lets bash this guy". Pathetic.
     
  7. Thornton97

    Thornton97 Registered User

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    Where's the math? Can you do it for me? He didn't say Coburn was better. He said "this round went to him." Jeez people, calm down. I'm sure there are nights when Crosby (gasp!) is not the best skater on the ice.
     
  8. HuskyFlames

    HuskyFlames Registered User

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    Its quite simple. He makes pHaneuf out to look really bad in his post. After each terrible single game, should I say a certain prospect is bad?? He also said "Conceeding those points, there was still no question which team was better, and which defenseman was better". There was no mention near that sensetence of his conclusion only realting to 1 game. He then continues to knock Phaneuf throughout the article.

    Crosby only had 1 assist last game he played, does that mean he lost that round too?
     
  9. saillias

    saillias Registered User

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    He has to find him before he challenges him to a fight. :lol
     
  10. Phaneuf*

    Phaneuf* Guest

    It's a good thing Phaneuf skated away from Coburn or your boy would be dead.

    /unbiased Phaneuf fan.
     
  11. Thornton97

    Thornton97 Registered User

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    For God's sake dude. Interpret "there was still no question which team was better, and which defenseman was better" as you will. Whose team won the game? I am not going to argue this, I'm tired and you obviously think that Coburn can not be better for ONE game. For your reference so that you don't claim otherwise, I'd rather have the Phaneufster.


    Actually, last game SC played, he had 2 goals and 1 assist (tonight). And the whole point of this "lost-a-round" talk is:

    (drum roll) when players go head to head, obviously one of them is going to come out on top. David Krejci shut down SC last week; yes, he won that battle. Do I think he would win the proverbal "war," not a chance. One prospect (player) has to be better than another prospect (player). This is not a reflection on the individual player's skills or potential, but is simply a reflection of that specific game.

    Sometimes players have bad games. Are you going to argue against that?
     
  12. Thornton97

    Thornton97 Registered User

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    Let me just add that "he makes Phaneuf out to be bad" because, perhaps, he played a poor game. Nothing wrong with that. I think we can all relate to playing a bad game, having a bad day, taking a bad exam.


    I will also note that at the end of the original post are a few words:

    "It was only one game"
     
  13. HabLover

    HabLover Registered User

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    So who won the fight between Fraser and Coburn?
     
  14. Whawks33

    Whawks33 Registered User

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    All of you made a very poor assumption- I am not a "he"

    I was very clear up front, before even posting a single comment, that I have a home town bias. I live in Portland and clearly am a Winter Hawks fan.

    And I did state in my post, this was only one game. And given that I titled my post with the date of the game, my comments about which team and which defenseman were better were clearly made about one game, one date in time.

    I will say that I came to the game expecting to see the great Phaneuf that I've read about here and other places, and left the game wondering. I saw none of the physical play and none of the things that I've read that would lead me to believe Phaneuf is a blue chip defense prospect. If I were a scout, and had only attended this one game between the two players, I would walk away with Coburn on my draft list ahead of Phaneuf.

    As for Coburn being lucky that Phaneuf skated away, that may be true, but fact is, Phaneuf looked more the "chicken" by skating away, than by accepting the challenge. All I saw for Phaneuf last night was a lot of chirping, with very little physical play (and no, I don't mean just fighting) to back it up. When a small sized skill forward knocks you on your butt multiple times, and you do nothing about it, I have to wonder where a player's heart is. Dubinsky is a gamer, and he'd have taken on Phaneuf if Phaneuf stood up for himself. Instead, Dubinsky rolled over him a few times, with no respose from Phaneuf. Phaneuf also took a high stick to the face from a Hawks player, one the referee clearly did not see, and Phaneuf did nothing. The Hawks player even skated away after high sticking Phaneuf with a wicked smile on his face, knowing he had gotten away with it. I'm not advocating the high stick, I'm making the point the Phaneuf did nothing. Phaneuf had opportunities to at minimum throw a body check on the player who high sticked him, and he didn't even do that.

    Some 24 hours later, the only other feeling I have about the game and the Phaneuf-Coburn match-up, is more a feeling than anything I can specifically point to as a play or whatever on the ice. It just seemed like Coburn was more team oriented last night then Phaneuf. Phaneuf didn't do much for his team, even with his goal. The worse his team played, the less Phaneuf wanted to do with them, and the less ice time he had. He just didn't seem to care that his team was losing so badly. Now again, before you start to flame me, this is based on just my observations of the game. An off night for Phaneuf? Probably, but I only get to see central/eastern players once every other year, so I can only report what I see in those games.

    I think all in all on of the big things I was trying to do with my post is point out that Coburn is a good defenseman. He is tall, rangy and he's continuing every day to develop. He's also learning he has the skill, at this level, to take over and control a hockey game. He also is effective at playing a role when asked to. At the World Jr "Tourny" (I always thought it was tourney myself), Coburn was asked to be a defensive defensiveman. He was asked to fill a role. And those I've talked to who knew his role, who watched the tournament, said he filled his role quite well.

    There is so much bashing of Coburn on this board, and so many who elevate Phaneuf to near god status, that I thought, given the end result of the game and the head to head match-up, it was time some good words were said about Coburn.
    And I know it can't be easy to be Phaneuf, and be such a highly touted prospect. You come into any opposing arena with a bullseye on your chest, and likely any player who wants to make a name for himself takes a run at you.

    As for the Fraser Coburn fight, I'd say Coburn won. He essentially held Fraser at arms length the whole fight, and landed punches whenever he wanted to. And before I get accused again of my bias, and that I'd say that the Hawk player won every fight in any given game, in last night's game, Cepek had his clock cleaned by Gillies, badly. Easy decision to Gillies.

    Again, all of this is based on one game, one night.

    Honestly I can't wait to see how all of the WHL defense prospects develop over the next few years. Coburn, Phaneuf, Barker, Seabrook, Belle and others I'm probably forgetting. In five years, I think it will be interesting to see which one will come out on top (provided there is an NHL for them to play in).
     
  15. maximil

    maximil Registered User

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    I could care less about the general topic of this post.

    I am really interested to hear how Funk and Mikkelson played. I want to know how they have been playing lately and who you think is going to be a better defenseman long term.

    Where do you think Dan Da Silva will get picked?
     
  16. King'sPawn

    King'sPawn Enjoy the chaos

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    Jeez. Some people really either need to get a life or chill.

    There's nothing wrong with saying a player looked bad. Nothing wrong with even saying "I don't see what all the hype was about" if that's the case. Players, particularly young players, have bad games and look ordinary. If you can't handle some remarks about your favorite player, grow some thick skin.

    While the comparison between the two could have sparked some defensive responses, always remember to take a step back and take it for a grain of salt. You're in the wrong business if you expect everyone to be impressed with your favorite players every time.
     
  17. Phanuthier*

    Phanuthier* Guest

    That was ONE game. That's it. One. Uno.

    I think I saw Shean Donovan outplay Peter Forsberg once...
     
  18. Amen evil king

    Amen evil king Registered User

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    :deadhorse
     
  19. Colt.45Orr

    Colt.45Orr Registered User

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    I've seen Phaneuf live ALOT and he looks fantastic most of the time...occasionally he looks bored and not really into it... much like J-Bo in his Dub days... just not as often as Jay.

    The fact of the matter is: Phaneuf is done with the WHL...yes,he is still playing in it due to the lock-out but I don't think ANYONE can expect him to play at a high intensity all the time with all the minuetes he has played. He needs new challenges.

    If he got high-sticked and didn't snap (i.e. take a penalty) how is that a bad thing?

    I've seen Phaneuf put too many guys under -live and in person- to not consider him capable of being a nasty SOB. I don't know why he wouldn't fight Cob...but I know damned-well who I would put my money on 9 out of 10x.
     
  20. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Registered User

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    Well I guess Red Deer can just be glad that Portland will never get past Kootenay, so really who cares who was better for that one game.
     
  21. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Registered User

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    Sure, whawksomething (sorry, no time to look up the name) may be a Hawks fan but I have to agree with others, she didn't make any outrageous claims or anything.

    She told us how she saw that one game and that's pretty much it. I didn't see the game, don't know if she got it right or not but I wouldn't be all that surprised if it was true.

    She's also right on one thing: Coburn tends to be underrated on the boards.

    He deffnitly does have a fantastic package that allows him to take over a game. It's just that he rarely does so. I prefer Phaneuf but I think Coburn has a really high ceiling and if he is making strides, that is a very good thing.

    As for Dion, it sucks that he is stuck there. His place is in the AHL this year. Stupid, crappy rules.

    Having said that, claims by team fans that their player was better at this or that will always be met with a dose of skepticism and I can understand that, seeing the kind of cheerleading that takes place around here. It's not her fault but when you see it happen deay after day, youget to a point where you react defensively.

    Too bad, because for all I know, this report might well be true and it wasn't all that far-fetched.
     
  22. Drake1588

    Drake1588 UNATCO

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    Posts like those by Whawks33 on this thread are what I come to the prospects boards to read, frankly. I found them detailed, well written, and with prior biases laid out on the table with full disclaimers. One ought certainly to be cautious not to extrapolate too much from just one game, nor necessarily take such posts completely at face value, but it's a service to have them here just the same. Recaps of that nature on a more frequent basis from those fans who get to watch top prospects across the CHL would be welcome. Keep 'em coming.
     
  23. espo*

    espo* Guest

    Definately.It's a good report of the game.One game is one game and people on these boards know that.So Coburn outplayed Phaneuf in one game,not a big deal or a stretch at all.Phaneuf is no doubt a better defenseman to me at this point but coburn may have outplayed him in this game for a variety of reasons.It's not wrong for her to see what she sees and report on it...as i've said a lot of times.....that's what these boards are for after all.
     
  24. bruins4777*

    bruins4777* Guest

    I've always found whawks' reports to be very very very nice and detailed...and not some big flaming "O MY GOD THIS PLAYER GOT OWNED SOOOO MUCH OWNAGE THAT GUY SUCKS HE IS AUTOMATICALLY HORRIBLE!!" that we see from some people on this board.

    i mean i'm a thrashers fan so i want coburn to do good, but i always feel like whawks' posts are quite solid, even with bias.
     
  25. The Maltais Falcon

    The Maltais Falcon Registered User

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    Thanks for the report, Whawks33. Don't mind the haters; like Drake said, it's detailed, insightful posts like yours that make the board worth reading!
     
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