1972 Summit Series: shame or glory?

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Johnny Engine

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Everybody talks about the Kharlamov slash, yet nobody talks about how the Soviets brought in a hand picked ref that called ridiculous penalties against Canada, hell, they nearly didn't count the tying goal for christs sakes!

This is a pretty good illustration of what the series was about — a clash of systems. Cracking an opponent's ankle with your stick is a very individualistic and selfish form of skullduggery, and the refs are a good example of the underhanded way that the Communists often operated. What's worse in the big picture is a matter of ideology.

40 years later, the Russians have produced some of the most free-spirited individuals the game has known (Ovechkin, Mogilny), and Canada has really stepped up our training and discipline. This happened in large part because of a series where a lot of great hockey and a lot of horrible misbehaviour happened.

Canadians should be aware that our freedom allows some of our worst people to rise to the top and win, and Russians should be aware of how unfair life under a monolithic system can be, but neither should be ashamed of their country in general. The summit series is that in a nutshell.
 

RabbinsDuck

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Feb 1, 2008
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Theokrites:
I don't want to stir up a great controversy and I hope you don't misunderstand the following analogy, but isn't that comparable to what happened in Germany after WW2? In both cases something wrong was done, although there was much more wrongdoing in WW2 of course. But you also had that kind of backlash in the 1960s when the younger generation started to critize and villainize the WW2 generation for things that happened in the 1930s and 1940s. Didn't they have the right to do so? Were the elders right who told them to shut up because they didn't know what it was like back in the days?

A German analogy seems harsh (genocide and all that)... A better analogy would be the US and the Vietnam War - where the entire military and veterans were thrown under the bus and shamed because of the atrocities of a few individuals. Atrocities happen in every war, on both sides... That does not mean they should be condoned or even ignored, just viewed in context. There were heroes and villains.

The USA dropped nucleur bombs killing millions of innocent civilians. Viewed in an isolated bubble that pretty much is a heinous crime against humanity of the highest order, but viewed in the context of WWII I do not think the Allies need to feel ashamed of the entire war effort or victory.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
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Please let's not steer the discussion towards muslim hate crimes...

I had forgotten about this thread (I was a bit tipsy when I made it)...

I don't feel outright shame for the win, it was a gutsy win after all is said and done. But the way Canada went about it is not something to be proud of, at all. Here in Canada when you are told about the series it's all about how Canada overcome the big bad Russians, but I will always remember how disgusted I was when I saw what actually happened. My reaction would have been a bit more muted if we weren't fed all this propaganda about the series though.

And for the people using the Cold War as an excuse for poor sportsmanship, shame on you. Something reprehensible is always wrong, even if it is justified (and it certainly was not in this case)
 

Iain Fyffe

Hockey fact-checker
But the way Canada went about it is not something to be proud of, at all. Here in Canada when you are told about the series it's all about how Canada overcome the big bad Russians, but I will always remember how disgusted I was when I saw what actually happened. My reaction would have been a bit more muted if we weren't fed all this propaganda about the series though.
This is my experience with it as well. As a youngster just getting into hockey all I heard was about how Canada gutted out the series and overcame the robotic Russians through pure strength of character.

And then later on you find out what actually happened and you think "Wait, cheating shows good character? What am I missing?"
 

Iain Fyffe

Hockey fact-checker
Everybody talks about the Kharlamov slash, yet nobody talks about how the Soviets brought in a hand picked ref that called ridiculous penalties against Canada, hell, they nearly didn't count the tying goal for christs sakes!
By this logic, nobody talks about how the Soviets complained about the North American refs for the games in Canada. If complaints about refs are evidence that the refereeing was biased, then the Soviets faced biased referees in North America.

Also, look at the facts. Canada certainly suffered from a power-play imbalance in games 6 and 7 (which they won anyway). In game 5 they had as many PP opportunities as the Soviets, and in game 8 they had only one fewer. Then compare this to the refereeing back home, which the Soviets said was biased, where they sill wound up with a total of three fewer PP opportunities in 4 games.

You probably just notice it more because the Soviets were much more effective at converting their man advantages into goals than Canada was.
 

BobbyAwe

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Nov 21, 2006
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Apparently injuring Kharlamov was an order from the bench. If this is true, Clarke's slash is no longer about the individual but becomes part of Canada's game plan and tactics. Not only does that shame the team but I'd personally consider it a tainted victory.

Agreed. It would have been bad enough if due to a spontaneous act of frustration on Clarke's part, but the fact that it was pre-meditated made it criminal. What I heard is that Ferguson told Clarke Kharlamov needed a "tap on the ankle". I would imagine Clarke already had something like that in mind :shakehead
 

EpicGingy

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Jul 30, 2012
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By this logic, nobody talks about how the Soviets complained about the North American refs for the games in Canada. If complaints about refs are evidence that the refereeing was biased, then the Soviets faced biased referees in North America.

Also, look at the facts. Canada certainly suffered from a power-play imbalance in games 6 and 7 (which they won anyway). In game 5 they had as many PP opportunities as the Soviets, and in game 8 they had only one fewer. Then compare this to the refereeing back home, which the Soviets said was biased, where they sill wound up with a total of three fewer PP opportunities in 4 games.

You probably just notice it more because the Soviets were much more effective at converting their man advantages into goals than Canada was.

Doesn't change the fact the Soviets brought in a hand-picked ref, and how the Soviets weren't saints, either (which seems to be the impression I'm getting).

You can't always judge the ratio of PP's off of reffing, and there are bad refs, it's a part of hockey (as I become an expert on growing up).

The fact we overcame the terrible reffing in 6 and 7 (which certainly was worse than the games in Canada), makes me proud of this series, and how we won it, despite that slash, and nothing anybody can say in this thread will take that away from me.
 

Theokritos

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Apr 6, 2010
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What Canadians don't get is that, during the Cold War, Canada was fairly low on the list of enemies for the Soviet Union. American victory in Lake Placid is far more important (and impressive) from this standpoint. I think it had more to do with Canada's inability to cope with another country (any country) being as good as or better than they were at the time.

That's the way I see it as well.

I sure don't, any more than I feel shame over Ben Johnson or I'm sure Americans feel about Marion Jones or whomever.

Canadians or Canadian fans don't need to feel any shame anyway, they didn't slash Kharlamov. The question is whether the victory of Team Canada was shameful and the guys who were on the ice in 1972 should be ashamed. I wouldn't go as far, but I would say that 1) the victory is tarnished by what happened, and 2) Clarke and Ferguson should feel ashame, just like Boris Mikhailov.

What bothers me is the selective focus on an incident that was no worse than at least one other in the series. Both teams did things they shouldn't be proud of.

It might be unfair, but the reason for that is: Canada won. Had Mikhailov actually taken out Bergman and the Soviets had won the Series we'd have the very same discussion the other way round. For my opinion on the Mikhailov incident, see above and post #17.

A German analogy seems harsh (genocide and all that)... A better analogy would be the US and the Vietnam War

Conceded. Your example is better.

...where the entire military and veterans were thrown under the bus and shamed because of the atrocities of a few individuals. Atrocities happen in every war, on both sides... That does not mean they should be condoned or even ignored, just viewed in context.

No question. But atrocities remain atrocities. Canadians shouldn't feel ashame, but Clarke should and the context doesn't take that burden away from him. The Cold War context explains (not justifies...) a lot, but it doesn't explain why Kharlamov was slashed by Bobby Clarke and not by Serge Savard or Jean Ratelle. That's where Clarke's personal responsibility and blame come into play.

By this logic, nobody talks about how the Soviets complained about the North American refs for the games in Canada. If complaints about refs are evidence that the refereeing was biased, then the Soviets faced biased referees in North America.

I thought the Soviets didn't complain much about the refereeing in the first 4 games, with the exception of Game 2. But I might be wrong. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
 

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
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Between the soviet reffing and the kick I really dont care about the slash. The soviet reffing was so bad that one of them almost got slashed across the head.

On top of that trying to make it so that the players wives couldnt come is also pretty underhanded. The soviets were guilty of plenty but they just had a different approach to it. Under the table reffing and the like.
 

RabbinsDuck

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Feb 1, 2008
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Thekritos
No question. But atrocities remain atrocities. Canadians shouldn't feel ashame, but Clarke should and the context doesn't take that burden away from him. The Cold War context explains (not justifies...) a lot, but it doesn't explain why Kharlamov was slashed by Bobby Clarke and not by Serge Savard or Jean Ratelle. That's where Clarke's personal responsibility and blame come into play.

Agreed - Ferguson and Clarke should be ashamed and should have been barred from international competitions. Just not all of Team Canada and fans.
 

Hubie

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Jan 18, 2010
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Sounds like total B.S. This is taken from some random book. The article lists a total of THREE such incidents since 2001.

It appears not to be from "some random book" but an article from Journal of Applied Social Psychology, which is a peer-reviewed scientific publication. Can't really get more reliable than that.
 

Strangelove

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Kharlamov was a great player, but every bit as dirty as 23-year-old Clarkie. :nod:

Kharlamov's ankle was injured GOING INTO the series

(he had been missing games/practices for months).

After "The Slash" Kharlamov shoved Clarke a few times and angrily skated off

He finished that game (Game 6), skipped Game 7, played regular minutes in Game 8.

Are folks saying this guy was a superman who played on a freshly broken ankle??

The refereeing was horrible (hey, they even missed "The Slash")

... and the Russkies were actually dirtier than the Canadians overall.

The Russkies were slashing, spearing and kicking all over the ice.

WAAAY too much is made of "The Slash" by revisionists.

100% GLORY, zero% shame. :yo:

Some of you need to rewatch the series... or how about watch it for the first time.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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It appears not to be from "some random book" but an article from Journal of Applied Social Psychology, which is a peer-reviewed scientific publication. Can't really get more reliable than that.

unless the researcher was from harvard, hehe.
 

Zine

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These international games were filled with propaganda though. Russians, Swedes and Czechs were painted as the dirtiest players to ever take the ice by the Canadian media. Since there were no proof of it, it went on to say that they were sneaky and did dirty things that no one could see not even the cameras(!).


Quoted for truth.


We constantly hear how sneaky dirty the Soviets were, yet there is little video evidence supporting this.

I think the Canadians made this claim because, 1. it was a way to justify their own dirty play; 2. they had the pre-conceived opinion that the 'evil soviets' were extremely dirty, hence any typical hockey scrum was viewed in that light.

Then again, maybe the Soviets were SO sneaky they also managed to trick the cameras.:laugh:
 

newfy

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Jul 28, 2010
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Quoted for truth.


We constantly hear how sneaky dirty the Soviets were, yet there is little video evidence supporting this.

I think the Canadians made this claim because, 1. it was a way to justify their own dirty play; 2. they had the pre-conceived opinion that the 'evil soviets' were extremely dirty, hence any typical hockey scrum was viewed in that light.

Then again, maybe the Soviets were SO sneaky they also managed to trick the cameras.:laugh:

Well the cameras definitely caught Mikhailov kicking a Canadian player causing him to bleed all over the place. The russian dirty play wasnt that sneaky but they were getting away with stuff
 

jkrx

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Feb 4, 2010
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Well the cameras definitely caught Mikhailov kicking a Canadian player causing him to bleed all over the place. The russian dirty play wasnt that sneaky but they were getting away with stuff

as did Canada, as a whole the candian team were a lot dirtier. They were constantly hunting heads (even in the exhibition games). It was also during this period the whole "Canada doesnt try if the game doesn't mean anything"-crap started.
 

Zine

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Well the cameras definitely caught Mikhailov kicking a Canadian player causing him to bleed all over the place. The russian dirty play wasnt that sneaky but they were getting away with stuff

I'm not saying the kick didn't happen...but from some descriptions you'd have thought Mikhailov flying karate kicked Bergman. When I finally saw the footage I thought "that's it?" Definitely a cheap move by Mikhailov...but still miles away from chasing somebody down from behind and taking out their leg with a 2-hander.


The Soviets certainly had dirty moments (no denying that), but the notion that they constantly played dirty and/or employed dirty tactics just isn't supported by video evidence; nor are there many interview from older Americans/Czech/Swedish/Finnish players claiming as such. This accusation ironically seems to only come from the old-time Canadian players and Canadian media.:dunno:
 
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Theokritos

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Apr 6, 2010
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Kharlamov was a great player, but every bit as dirty as 23-year-old Clarkie.

No-one except maybe Mikhailov was as dirty as Clarke. Kharlamov wasn't the cleanest of all players, but he didn't brake ankles and didn't butt-end opponents like Clarke did.

the Russkies were actually dirtier than the Canadians overall....Some of you need to rewatch the series... or how about watch it for the first time

Go and tell that to Paul Henderson. Henderson: "The Russian players were ten times the sportsmen we were."

Russians, Swedes and Czechs were painted as the dirtiest players to ever take the ice by the Canadian media. Since there were no proof of it, it went on to say that they were sneaky and did dirty things that no one could see not even the cameras(!).

We constantly hear how sneaky dirty the Soviets were, yet there is little video evidence supporting this... Then again, maybe the Soviets were SO sneaky they also managed to trick the cameras.

The cameras try to follow the puck, so if anything happens elsewhere on the ice they don't catch it.

I think the Canadians made this claim because, 1. it was a way to justify their own dirty play; 2. they had the pre-conceived opinion that the 'evil soviets' were extremely dirty, hence any typical hockey scrum was viewed in that light.

I don't think you're doing the whole situation or Team Canada complete justice. Even though the apologetic tendency was there from the start, it doesn't mean that there is no truth in the accusations. As for the influence of pre-conceived opinions, the Canadians labeled the Swedes "dirtier than the Soviets". Phil Esposito was quoted as saying: "The Russians are gentlemen compared to these guys." Did Team Canada have a pre-conceived opinion that the Swedes were even more devilish than the 'evil soviets'? No, I don't think their opinion was pre-conceived, I think it was formed after the experience of what actually happened on the ice. Just as the Europeans were truely angry about some attitudes of the Canadians, the Canadians were truely angry about some attitudes of the Europeans (Swedes more than Soviets!).

...the notion that they constantly played dirty and/or employed dirty tactics just isn't supported by video evidence; nor are there many interview from older Americans/Czech/Swedish/Finnish players claiming as such. This accusation ironically seems to only come from the old-time Canadian players and Canadian media.

The accusations were directed against the Europeans in general. The charge was that stuff like high-sticking and diving was more common in European hockey than in North America. The Czechoslovaks, Swedes and Finns didn't complain much? No surprise! All of them were part of the same European hockey culture and unlike the Canadians they were familiar with the moves and tactics employed there. They had no reason to complain about the Soviets because the Soviets weren't worse then themselves.

As for the Americans, I'd need more interviews and statements to get a proper picture of what their opinion was. The point for me is that I have a hard time believing legions of Canadian hockey personal, from players to referees to journalists, were so blinded and misguided as to cook up a purely fabricated notion of high-sticking and systematic interference being more common in Europe and stick with that notion for decades. Just like the continuous European complaints about excessive checking by the Canadian have a factual foundation, the continuous Canadian complaints about high-sticking by the Europeans have one. It was a clash of two different hockey cultures: not only in terms of tactics and style, but also in terms of what was considered tolerable and what was not.

It was also during this period the whole "Canada doesnt try if the game doesn't mean anything"-crap started.

Are you talking about 1972? I have never heard any member of Team Canada claim they lost a single game against the Soviets cause they didn't care enough.
 

jkrx

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Feb 4, 2010
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The cameras try to follow the puck, so if anything happens elsewhere on the ice they don't catch it.

Are you talking about 1972? I have never heard any member of Team Canada claim they lost a single game against the Soviets cause they didn't care enough.

You mean the european players knew when the camera were zoomed in on the puck carrier? The canadians were real dirtbags during these series (note the russians weren't innocent and did alot of stuff), they expected to be treated like royalty (which they still do, you should be around the team during international tournaments), they threatend the refs and Im not speaking solely to the espo incident, they headshotted, knee-on-kneed and everytime this happpened the candian media called it diving. The whole series became a farce.

For the second part I'm not referring exclusively to the summit series.
 
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Macman

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I'm not saying the kick didn't happen...but from some descriptions you'd have thought Mikhailov flying karate kicked Bergman. When I finally saw the footage I thought "that's it?" Definitely a cheap move by Mikhailov...but still miles away from chasing somebody down from behind and taking out their leg with a 2-hander.


The Soviets certainly had dirty moments (no denying that), but the notion that they constantly played dirty and/or employed dirty tactics just isn't supported by video evidence; nor are there many interview from older Americans/Czech/Swedish/Finnish players claiming as such. This accusation ironically seems to only come from the old-time Canadian players and Canadian media.:dunno:

I'm sorry if the kick didn't look bad enough to you, but what Mikhailov did is about as rare and verboten as you can get in the game of hockey. He used his skate as a weapon yet it's ignored in every discussion about this series by people who continually paint Canadian players as animals and by those looking for any excuse for yet another Russian loss. If a Canadian had done this, the outcry would be off the charts. A Russian does it, and it's ignored or excused or somehow not as bad as a slash. And we get wonderful, objective and serious-minded threads about whether or not Canadians should feel shame. :laugh:

TSN is showing all three games of the '87 Canada Cup final this week. I eagerly await the usual excuses and we wuz robbed rants.
 

legendinblue

NHL in Seattle
Apr 30, 2011
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Shame, more than anything really.

Both teams played dirty games, there's no denying that. But what Clarke was ordered to do by the coaching staff is inexcusable and embarrassing. The act was presented as a sign of having heart, wanting it more and so on; but in retrospect it was an act of desperation - always has been for those that couldn't be blinded by the propaganda. Taking out opposition's best player because you can't cope with him is something I'll never be able to get behind, no matter what circumstances.

I saw no reason to celebrate. And no, I wasn't a communist either. :laugh: Clarke was a hero, a warrior that showed heart, will to win and passion. You can do that without deliberately injuring other players.

I'm glad to see more and more people from the Cold War generation, are starting to realize Clarke's action was shameful and are ready to admit that. Though you will still find some who are proud of Clarke, for whatever reason.

Bottom line is, I always felt it was a tainted win and wasn't nearly as excited about it as fellow countrymen.
 
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newfy

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I'm not saying the kick didn't happen...but from some descriptions you'd have thought Mikhailov flying karate kicked Bergman. When I finally saw the footage I thought "that's it?" Definitely a cheap move by Mikhailov...but still miles away from chasing somebody down from behind and taking out their leg with a 2-hander.


The Soviets certainly had dirty moments (no denying that), but the notion that they constantly played dirty and/or employed dirty tactics just isn't supported by video evidence; nor are there many interview from older Americans/Czech/Swedish/Finnish players claiming as such. This accusation ironically seems to only come from the old-time Canadian players and Canadian media.:dunno:

How many times did the American/Czech/Swedes/Finns do battle in an 8 game series, during the cold war? And when were any of those teams considered the top dogs in the hockey world?

No games between any of those teams would have the same emotion running in them than that series did. Both teams were very dirty and theres just as much evidence of Russian dirty play as there was for Canadian.

The 2 bad incidents were the slash and the kick. After that, you can see watching the games that both go back and forth with the dirty play but most of it is considered within the bounds of the game. And call me crazy but I find a kick that draws blood, back than when equipment is very thin just as bad as that slash. I dont think Kharmlamovs ankle was as bad as some are making out, just like you dont think the kick was.

If his ankle was completely shattered he wouldnt have finished out the game or game 8
 
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