GDT: 160322 Sharks vs Blues 7:30 CSNCA - Force vs Schwartz

[Sharksrule04]

Losers find a way to lose.

Do losers also find a way to win? The Sharks seem to have the most of those in 2016...

Continue the whining though...

 

[Sharksrule04]

Neither team took the night off. It was a 50/50 game. To say otherwise is pretty dumb.

Nah man, the team took 37 shots on goal, clearly they didn't want to score last night. I believe 36.5 of those shots hit the goalie right in the chest too. If only they didn't pass so much they might have had 40 shots on goal and won 3-1.

 

[Used As A Shield]

Just passing the puck back and forth at a leisurely pace is not the most effective way to cause the other team to end up out of position. A faster pace, or players quickly crossing through the slot etc will cause errors on their coverage, and then a pass to the perceived open shot lane. Even pressuring their forwards with the puck and tossing it to the open man when an opponent bites and tries to stickcheck/get the puck would help.

 

[weastern bias]

I can corroborate, yes, the Sharks PP is garbage trash and I've been saying it all season

Aside from Donskoi, Hertl, Ward, and occasionally Burns there is ZERO MOVEMENT OFF THE PUCK

The defenders don't have to even skate to stick with their man and they are given a free pass to pressure the puck carrier without worrying about opening a lane

It's god damn infuriating to watch, and since I'm watching the game and not their conversion % it makes me want to tear my corneas out

 

[Gene Parmesan]

If it were as bad as you say it is they'd have a much lower conversion rate.

 

[weastern bias]

If it were as bad as you say it is they'd have a much lower conversion rate.

There's no actual reason to believe that considering the environment of the current NHL where random luck is rewarded on the stat sheet

Since 2012 the Sharks PP has been good at converting two kinds of plays: Set plays off a faceoff win, and point shot tipins

Once an attempt fails and is cleared they waste precious minutes attempting cute zigzaggy passes in neutral ice that usually takes 2-3 minimum attempts to break the trap

Jumbo holds the puck on the halfwall, Burns slides across the point to trigger, Pavs tries to get to that Ovechkin shot posision, Couture on the opposite end of the net, and Marleau sets up. . . somewhere

Then no one moves

Then the PK clears, the guy comes out of the box, and I post here about how annoying it is, wash, rinse, repeat like clockwork

 

[Pinkfloyd]

No actual reason to believe that even though he gave you an actual reason to believe that. Most power plays are not executed any differently than what you state. Most teams convert power plays with either the rush, a faceoff play drawn up, or setting up a point shot for a tip/screen or the slot one-timer.

It also ignores the bottom line that you expect this team to do something that almost all other teams are already worse than them at for some reason in a situation that fails more than succeeds.

What exactly do you expect of them on the man advantage? People seriously need to temper their expectations in that situation.

 

[Sharksrule04]

There's no actual reason to believe that considering the environment of the current NHL where random luck is rewarded on the stat sheet

Since 2012 the Sharks PP has been good at converting two kinds of plays: Set plays off a faceoff win, and point shot tipins

Once an attempt fails and is cleared they waste precious minutes attempting cute zigzaggy passes in neutral ice that usually takes 2-3 minimum attempts to break the trap

Jumbo holds the puck on the halfwall, Burns slides across the point to trigger, Pavs tries to get to that Ovechkin shot posision, Couture on the opposite end of the net, and Marleau sets up. . . somewhere

Then no one moves

Then the PK clears, the guy comes out of the box, and I post here about how annoying it is, wash, rinse, repeat like clockwork

Ok, so what is your solution? Rather than complaining about what they do wrong, tell us what you'd like to see them do. Every team in the league operates similar to the above. You move the puck until you find a dangerous shot. Everyone complains about how the Sharks just shoot it into the goalies crest, but now people are complaining about passing too much to try and find a dangerous shot.

Do you want them to simply try and gain the zone and go straight to the net? If so you're essentially removing the advantage of an extra player as you will most likely be facing a 2-on-2 situation or worse. The defense is often in a passive box or a more aggressive box. You adjust the PP based on what you're facing. If they're aggressive you move the puck quicker to try and gain a free player and catch them out of position. If they're passive you try to draw a player away or get the goalie moving side to side.

I've seen the Sharks PP do this consistently. You can ignore the stats, but they don't lie. The Sharks have a very effective PP. If you don't believe so then you either think they get lucky the more than other teams in the league or you must believe that every team's PK just plays worse against the Sharks.

If the PP performs in the playoffs like it has in the regular season, we will be in good shape. That is the real challenge though, as we have seen our PP disappear in past playoff series.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

They shouldn't be worried about converting on power plays in the playoffs. Their focus should be their even strength because that's where almost every series will be won and lost. Power plays are few and far between.

 

[Sharksrule04]

No actual reason to believe that even though he gave you an actual reason to believe that. Most power plays are not executed any differently than what you state. Most teams convert power plays with either the rush, a faceoff play drawn up, or setting up a point shot for a tip/screen or the slot one-timer.

It also ignores the bottom line that you expect this team to do something that almost all other teams are already worse than them at for some reason in a situation that fails more than succeeds.

What exactly do you expect of them on the man advantage? People seriously need to temper their expectations in that situation.

Exactly. I watch 3 teams besides the Sharks regularly, Bruins, Rangers and Islanders. I see them doing the same things as the Sharks. Bruins have had a solid PP this year even though it has come back down to earth over the past month or so. Rangers and Islanders are average PP's. None of those teams have the talent the Sharks do on that top PP unit which is most likely why they aren't as effective but they do (or attempt) the exact same things. Unless the people complaining have some genius PP plan that the experts managing these teams haven't thought of, please stop exaggerating how "ineffective" the Sharks PP is every time they have an 0-for game.

 

[Sharksrule04]

They shouldn't be worried about converting on power plays in the playoffs. Their focus should be their even strength because that's where almost every series will be won and lost. Power plays are few and far between.

Agreed, but PP's and PK's are inevitable. If your special teams is doing well you drastically improve your chances of winning a series.

 

[weastern bias]

Ok, so what is your solution? Rather than complaining about what they do wrong, tell us what you'd like to see them do.

I'm no hockey coach, and I've got no concrete solution, but that doesn't mean I don't recognize when a system that I'm forced to watch 2-3 times a week isn't working

My first suggestion would be to get the guys off the puck in near constant motion in the O zone

Personally, I'd like to see a PP specialist added to the coaching staff, it's the one major systemic problem I see with this team that regularly occurs regardless of health

 

[Timo Time]

The 1st unit could use some minor tweaking. It doesn't need complete revamping. It's a top 5 PP and not by accident.

 

[Painful Quandary]

The 1st unit could use some minor tweaking. It doesn't need complete revamping. It's a top 5 PP and not by accident.

I completely agree. Also, when was the last time the team had a chance to get a couple good practices in between games?

 

[Timo Time]

I completely agree. Also, when was the last time the team had a chance to get a couple good practices in between games?

Before this past weekends home stand.

IIRC, without looking at the schedule right now; I think that was the last time the Sharks will have 2 days off in between games.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm no hockey coach, and I've got no concrete solution, but that doesn't mean I don't recognize when a system that I'm forced to watch 2-3 times a week isn't working

My first suggestion would be to get the guys off the puck in near constant motion in the O zone

Personally, I'd like to see a PP specialist added to the coaching staff, it's the one major systemic problem I see with this team that regularly occurs regardless of health

No it doesn't mean that you don't recognize when a system doesn't work but you likely also don't know what a working system looks like if you think that it isn't working. There are some tweaks that need to be made in terms of the positioning of the guy camping in front of the goalie but other than that, the extra movement isn't really necessary. Constant motion is a recipe for more SH goals against.

Systemically, there is nothing wrong with what the Sharks employ. PP strategies are not complicated and it's a matter of execution and getting puck luck. Execution is not something that is always going to be there...it's impossible and there's the other team that has a say in it as well.

 

[Painful Quandary]

Before this past weekends home stand.

IIRC, without looking at the schedule right now; I think that was the last time the Sharks will have 2 days off in between games.

Thanks. That is kind of my point, when the team doesn't have a lot of practices, details like special teams begin to just not click. I also get how rest is important as well. The Shark's schedule right now has not helped things.

 

[Sharksrule04]

I'm no hockey coach, and I've got no concrete solution, but that doesn't mean I don't recognize when a system that I'm forced to watch 2-3 times a week isn't working

My first suggestion would be to get the guys off the puck in near constant motion in the O zone

Personally, I'd like to see a PP specialist added to the coaching staff, it's the one major systemic problem I see with this team that regularly occurs regardless of health

While I understand the appeal of that, I think it would get old, hard to manage and easy to defend. Defenses will always adjust and most likely it would lead to the PK simply sitting in a passive box and waiting while players skate around on the perimeter. The shots would probably still be from the outside. You need to draw the defenders away from the center and moving away from the puck won't do that.

This is why Thornton is such a productive player and PP wizard. He is able possess the puck with patience and this draws defenders to him opening up space for others on the PP unit. Donskoi has a bit of this ability too and Burns draws players due to how lethal his shot is.

There isn't a "best" PP strategy IMO, and the PP success will come with players who know how to convert. We have those players which is why we're one of the best in the league. There are definitely times when they over complicate things, but that happens to all players at all levels. They are going to overthink things occasionally and that will often lead to 0-5 and 0-4 games. Other times, the PK and goalie will simply out perform the PP.

 

[spintops]

There's no actual reason to believe that considering the environment of the current NHL where random luck is rewarded on the stat sheet

Since 2012 the Sharks PP has been good at converting two kinds of plays: Set plays off a faceoff win, and point shot tipins

Once an attempt fails and is cleared they waste precious minutes attempting cute zigzaggy passes in neutral ice that usually takes 2-3 minimum attempts to break the trap

Jumbo holds the puck on the halfwall, Burns slides across the point to trigger, Pavs tries to get to that Ovechkin shot posision, Couture on the opposite end of the net, and Marleau sets up. . . somewhere

Then no one moves

Then the PK clears, the guy comes out of the box, and I post here about how annoying it is, wash, rinse, repeat like clockwork

Not that I totally disagree with you - But I find it interesting if you listen to coaches from other teams talk before games they have good things to say about our PP. Sorry I don't rember if it was ARZ or NYR but the coach said something like "The Sharks power play is dangerous because the shots are coming from the same places but different players. They move around better then any other PP in the league, guys just rotating spots"

 

[Sharksrule04]

Not that I totally disagree with you - But I find it interesting if you listen to coaches from other teams talk before games they have good things to say about our PP. Sorry I don't rember if it was ARZ or NYR but the coach said something like "The Sharks power play is dangerous because the shots are coming from the same places but different players. They move around better then any other PP in the league, guys just rotating spots"

I really think it's true. Burns and Pavelski are the point one second, and then the next they're at the goal line or rotating with Thornton. I have seen plenty of power plays around the league where the Dman is stuck to the blue line, and the forwards are much more predictable than ours. Some people think our PP is easy to defend because we watch them every game so naturally we see a lot of the same things over and over but if you watch any team regularly that will happen.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I really think it's true. Burns and Pavelski are the point one second, and then the next they're at the goal line or rotating with Thornton. I have seen plenty of power plays around the league where the Dman is stuck to the blue line, and the forwards are much more predictable than ours. Some people think our PP is easy to defend because we watch them every game so naturally we see a lot of the same things over and over but if you watch any team regularly that will happen.

Marleau and Couture flip-flop on the other point as well. It has its methodical tendencies which is standard for the situation and it works relatively well. The only thing they really need to focus on is their net front presence positioning. Too often the guy is not enough of a screen.

 

[hohosaregood]

I'm kinda disappointed by what seems to be a decrease in one timers from Pavelski and Burns as of late on the PP. Particularly Pavelski. That left faceoff dot one timer is a weapon they need to take advantage of more. I'm not even sure when the last time Pavelski took that shot.

 

[hockeyball]

I'm kinda disappointed by what seems to be a decrease in one timers from Pavelski and Burns as of late on the PP. Particularly Pavelski. That left faceoff dot one timer is a weapon they need to take advantage of more. I'm not even sure when the last time Pavelski took that shot.

I'm pretty sure Pav's is injured, I think whatever it is keeping him from taking slap shots. Shoulder maybe?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm kinda disappointed by what seems to be a decrease in one timers from Pavelski and Burns as of late on the PP. Particularly Pavelski. That left faceoff dot one timer is a weapon they need to take advantage of more. I'm not even sure when the last time Pavelski took that shot.

That play is a difficult one to setup when Thornton is the one handling the puck predominantly when they have control. When Thornton is handling the puck, they don't go to the umbrella setup too often on the 5 on 4.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I'm kinda disappointed by what seems to be a decrease in one timers from Pavelski and Burns as of late on the PP. Particularly Pavelski. That left faceoff dot one timer is a weapon they need to take advantage of more. I'm not even sure when the last time Pavelski took that shot.

Teams have been taking all one timers away from Pavs and Burns cross ice. The Sharks have been trying a low to opposite faceoff dot but the execution isn't there. I think once the top unit gets a couple, they'll fix themselves. There aren't a lot of set plays in hockey so execution is everything .