Post-Game Talk: #14 - Rangers @ Yotes

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

These postgame threads are becoming shorter and shorter.

Not much to discuss when the Corsi tells the story and the narratives are already set.

 

[Riche16]

Missed this one... sounds like good teams win even when they don't play great. (shrugs)

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Team is gonna miss the playoffs because of ya'll

Yeah, but maybe the game threads will be more enjoyable without the arguing, complaining, and stuff. So . . . Win some, lose some?

I don't really see the posts decreasing, anyway. Still seems to hit about 1000 per game thread.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Not much to discuss when the Corsi tells the story and the narratives are already set.

Hear ****ing hear.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Totally irresponsible.

Listen guys, I already gave up on my relationship (8 dec) last year for the Rangers. The moment we broke up, they went on that amazing run that got us the PT hahaha.

Maybe the Rangers can win games without my personal life being involved hahaha

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Fast played really well and lifted that line. Stoll basically contributes with nothing on a shift by shift basis, but he is a bit clutch and will help here and there. Not sure I get why we picked up Stoll and traded for Etem.

Hayes was our best player, that kid are playing a lot better than the other players in his mold out there (Bjugstadt and co).

We acquired Stoll because we need depth. Stoll has won 2 Cups, is great at face-offs (Which was an issue last season) and is just a good fit on the 4th line for a low cap hit

We traded for Etem because Hags was a cap dump. I like what I've seen from him these last 2 games. Not too flashy, but he needs time. Stalberg is the real replacement for Hags

 

[Matz03]

Fast played really well and lifted that line. Stoll basically contributes with nothing on a shift by shift basis, but he is a bit clutch and will help here and there. Not sure I get why we picked up Stoll and traded for Etem.

Hayes was our best player, that kid are playing a lot better than the other players in his mold out there (Bjugstadt and co).

You never know what you have until you add them, some players workout and some don't, that's the nature of of the game. We added Lindberg, Stalberg and Raanta, and these guys are sticking out as keepers. McIlrath also coming along well. Stoll has been hit or miss, not really bad but there's room for improvement there. This is quickly shaping out to be the deepest team I've ever seen with the least amount of question marks still to solve.

 

[Holocene]

Just waiting for the other shoe to drop is it April yet?

 

[Machinehead]

Not much to discuss when the Corsi tells the story and the narratives are already set.

Well we're top 10 in corsi in tie games so corsi would agree there's nothing to talk about.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Well we're top 10 in corsi in tie games so corsi would agree there's nothing to talk about.

The 40+ goal scorer from last season hasn't put a single puck in the net yet this season and now has a balky back, but yeah, Dan Girardi....

 

[Raspewtin]

The 40+ goal scorer from last season hasn't put a single puck in the net yet this season and now has a balky back, but yeah, Dan Girardi....

There's nothing like a narrative about pissing and moaning about people supposedly making up narratives.

 

[Wolfy*]

The Zuke chant in every building we visit around the league is amazing, a lot of Ranger fans out there. I'm sure it's something he really appreciates

Btw, why so few votes for Miller? He scored an important goal, he also had to swallow a stick and was bleeding. A true fighter he is.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Well we're top 10 in corsi in tie games so corsi would agree there's nothing to talk about.

I thought NHL.com had as at around 13.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The Zuke chant in every building we visit around the league is amazing, a lot of Ranger fans out there. I'm sure it's something he really appreciates

Btw, why so few votes for Miller? He scored an important goal, he also had to swallow a stick and was bleeding. A true fighter he is.

No, he isn't a true fighter. Getting a stick to the face gets you points now to be one of the 3 stars? And his goal was the flukiest one of the night. He had a good game, but not one of the 3 stars.

 

[Machinehead]

I thought NHL.com had as at around 13.

That's in close games.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

That's in close games.

It has us in 14th. Is that not Corsi?

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?reportType=season&report=teampercentages&season=20152016&gameType=2&aggregate=0

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I'm loving this new advanced stats feature on NHL.com. I've been playing around with it.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Keith Yandle filtering by >=8 games is the #6 D-man in Corsi close in the league. Stralman is 72nd. Wow!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It has us in 14th. Is that not Corsi?

http://www.nhl.com/stats/team?reportType=season&report=teampercentages&season=20152016&gameType=2&aggregate=0

NHL.com's stats have a reputation of being a bit off.


HockeyAnalysis has them at #9 in tied and at 14 in close situations.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/teamstats.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5tied&sort=CFPCT&sortdir=DESC

 

[SnowblindNYR]

NHL.com's stats have a reputation of being a bit off.


HockeyAnalysis has them at #9 in tied and at 14 in close situations.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/teamstats.php?disp=1&db=201516&sit=5v5tied&sort=CFPCT&sortdir=DESC

Our CF% overall is nightmarish, 28th in the league.

Two questions. Is Corsi Close +/- 1 goal? And is there data somewhere that shows what percentage of the time we've been up or down by 2+ this season?

 

[Machinehead]

Our CF% overall is nightmarish, 28th in the league.

Two questions. Is Corsi Close +/- 1 goal? And is there data somewhere that shows what percentage of the time we've been up or down by 2+ this season?

I have a blog coming out tomorrow that actually covers all of that.

 

[Levitate]

Our CF% overall is nightmarish, 28th in the league.

Two questions. Is Corsi Close +/- 1 goal? And is there data somewhere that shows what percentage of the time we've been up or down by 2+ this season?

Like I said before, the Rangers seem to give up a TON of shots when they're ahead late in games. It really kills their corsi numbers for sure. I don't think it's totally by design but I also think that the Rangers are more concerned with allowing dangerous scoring chances versus just suppressing shots in general.

Related to that, I wonder at what point the increased focus on advanced stats starts poisoning the data...as in people figured that more shot attempts correlates with more goals scored, and so some teams decide "eff it just shoot the puck from wherever it doesn't matter if it's an unscreened wrist shot from 30 feet", and when that tips the scales from "quality scoring chances isn't really a thing" to "quality scoring chances is a thing because teams are just shooting from all over now and shooting percentage is going down"

I"m sure someone has thought on it and worked up stuff on it...it probably takes a lot to get to that point and is probably debatable. I'm just not quite a fan of the every shot attempt is equal idea in some ways and I think some teams definitely just try to put the puck on net as much as possible without much playmaking involved. The issue is that some teams that do that (the Isles come to mind) score a lot because they're also a very talented team, not just because they shoot the puck from wherever. Teams like the Devils of recent years show that you actually need talent on the team to make those shot attempt numbers mean a damn thing, just shooting the puck isn't enough

 

[Ola]

Like I said before, the Rangers seem to give up a TON of shots when they're ahead late in games. It really kills their corsi numbers for sure. I don't think it's totally by design but I also think that the Rangers are more concerned with allowing dangerous scoring chances versus just suppressing shots in general.

Related to that, I wonder at what point the increased focus on advanced stats starts poisoning the data...as in people figured that more shot attempts correlates with more goals scored, and so some teams decide "eff it just shoot the puck from wherever it doesn't matter if it's an unscreened wrist shot from 30 feet", and when that tips the scales from "quality scoring chances isn't really a thing" to "quality scoring chances is a thing because teams are just shooting from all over now and shooting percentage is going down"

I"m sure someone has thought on it and worked up stuff on it...it probably takes a lot to get to that point and is probably debatable. I'm just not quite a fan of the every shot attempt is equal idea in some ways and I think some teams definitely just try to put the puck on net as much as possible without much playmaking involved. The issue is that some teams that do that (the Isles come to mind) score a lot because they're also a very talented team, not just because they shoot the puck from wherever. Teams like the Devils of recent years show that you actually need talent on the team to make those shot attempt numbers mean a damn thing, just shooting the puck isn't enough

I saw most of the first two periods between DET and DAL last night. After two periods, Detroit had 11 shots on goal. Sounds pretty awful right? They must have been without the puck for 40 minutes straight? Well it was actually the opposite.

With corsi you can see over a full season that players and especially teams with good corsi is better than players with bad corsi. Often the eye test will confirm that in general players with bad corsi is struggling pretty much, and some of the best players have great corsi. Teams that win the cup in general have good corsi.

But it is -- not -- and it will -- never -- be a possession stat. Never. Its a shot stat. It is not even remotely the same thing, its at best an indication of possession.

The second tier league in Sweden have real time zone data that is much better. It takes ONE person per game to get it. You run the ice-time data, then you just have another guy with a software where he just push one of three buttons depending on where on the ice the puck is. The you just match the zone data with the ice-time data and you get it per player. If you want real time possession data per zone which would be best, you give the same dude two more buttons, hit this button if the red team have the puck and this button if the blue team have the puck.

Some players/lines/teams always put the puck on the net, some players look and look and look for top notch scoring chances (like Zetterberg and Nyquist in Detroit who has the puck a ton on the ice).

Against some teams, you never want to dump in the puck on the net because their goalies are great with the stick, so you always put the puck in the corner that is 10-15% of corsi per game -- what does that have to do with anything??

 

[The Lunatic Fridge]

For all the **** that certain people like to give the defensemen on this team....

We're currently the hottest team in the league. Both in win streaks and GAA. The next closest team in a win streak is dallas at 3.

We're 5 points behind the "unstoppable" habs with 2 games in hand. We lead our division and hold a win over the team behind us (WSH)

Did i mention lundqvist has been absolutely lights out and it's not even december yet?

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Good for Miller to get the Monkey off his back, but Jesus Christ that was a lucky goal.

Maybe just getting on the scoresheet gives him some more confidence?

FWIW I very much like Miller, I just think he is one of those guys who needs to be given continuous time to make any real improvements. I think taking ice time away and/or benching him erases his progress.