GDT: #1 | Canucks at FLYERS | Friday, Oct. 15, 2021 | 7:00 pm ET | SN1, NBCSP

[Rebels57]

I was fairly optimistic heading into the season until the past 10 days. First came the Frost demotion. Then came the Garrett Wilson debacle. Then I watched that Capitals game. This team has no chance of being good under Vigneault so I cant be excited until he's fired.

 

[FlyerFaithful17]

I’m excited, I guess?

 

[deadhead]

I think y'all have collectively talked yourself into a blue funk.

The first line is intact.
The second and third lines aren't ideal right now, but this is temporary, Frost will be back by 11/2 (7 games missed), Hayes by 11/16 or so (2 months, 13 games missed, rather err on the side of caution). And Brassard and Laughton have first class wingers (Farabee, Lindblom, JVR, Atkinson).
The fourth line is, well, a typical fourth line. If we survived Lehtera, Leier, Weise, Bunnaman, Vorobyev, Andreoff, Twarynski we can survive this group for a few weeks.

When Frost returns, Brassard probably ends up replacing Wilson at 4LW.
When Hayes returns, Laughton replaces Thompson.
When Allison returns (Jan 1?), they have a deep squad.
And keep an eye on LHV, Foerster et al may make a jump when you're not looking.

Hart looked like he had his head on straight in preseason, if he's got his mojo back it's a playoff team.
Jones, well, he's an upgrade over Elliott in that he probably won't quickly fade halfway into the season. Otherwise your basic mediocre backup.
But Sandstrom and/or Ersson will get a shot if he falters.

My expectation is they'll be up and down until December, then once they integrate Frost and Hayes, and get Allison back, they'll turn on the after jets in the second half, much like spring 2020.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm you had to give us a full work week to look at this shit?

It's a Friday night and I'll be on call. I might end up subjecting myself to pure misery even though the Canucks are trash.

 

[BiggE]

Does anyone expect Hayes to be even close to 100% after 2 core surgeries in less than a year, or Risto to start playing smart hockey after 7 seasons of ineptitude, or AV to not use Thompson way too much, or Therrien to screw up the pp, or this coaching staff to use Frost properly whenever Cuck finally brings him back up?

 

[DancingPanther]

I think y'all have collectively talked yourself into a blue funk.

The first line is intact.
The second and third lines aren't ideal right now, but this is temporary, Frost will be back by 11/2 (7 games missed), Hayes by 11/16 or so (2 months, 13 games missed, rather err on the side of caution). And Brassard and Laughton have first class wingers (Farabee, Lindblom, JVR, Atkinson).
The fourth line is, well, a typical fourth line. If we survived Lehtera, Leier, Weise, Bunnaman, Vorobyev, Andreoff, Twarynski we can survive this group for a few weeks.

When Frost returns, Brassard probably ends up replacing Wilson at 4LW.
When Hayes returns, Laughton replaces Thompson.
When Allison returns (Jan 1?), they have a deep squad.
And keep an eye on LHV, Foerster et al may make a jump when you're not looking.

Hart looked like he had his head on straight in preseason, if he's got his mojo back it's a playoff team.
Jones, well, he's an upgrade over Elliott in that he probably won't quickly fade halfway into the season. Otherwise your basic mediocre backup.
But Sandstrom and/or Ersson will get a shot if he falters.

My expectation is they'll be up and down until December, then once they integrate Frost and Hayes, and get Allison back, they'll turn on the after jets in the second half, much like spring 2020.

80 points max.

 

[Domino666]

I don’t think Hayes even resembles himself until the last quarter of the season and that’s being optimistic, I’m still wondering why Hart didn’t play against the Caps, but here’s to nothing changing and AV and the Stooges being on the hottest of seats, BUT it won’t fix anything soooooooooooooo yeah let’s go Flyers

 

[Curufinwe]

Even in Hak's last year/Gordon they had 82 points (.500).

I think 80 points would get the whole coaching staff fired. It would be the worst season since 06/07.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Even in Hak's last year/Gordon they had 82 points (.500).

I think 80 points would get the whole coaching staff fired. It would be the worst season since 06/07.

That's the point... FIRE THEM

 

[deadhead]

Last year they were on an 85 point pace, despite historically horrid goalie play.
If Hart bounces back to "average," that's probably worth 10 points, if he is a top ten goalie, even more.

5 players scored over 2 ppg at 5x5 last season, we've lost Voracek, but Couts, G, JVR and Farabee return. TK 1.94 but should be better.
Hayes was hobbled by injury last year by March and ended up scoring 1.69 pp/60. So even if he isn't 100%, the threshold isn't that high.
Lindblom 1.44, Laughton 1.41, NAK 1.33, Raffl 1.25, Patrick 0.64 - this shouldn't be hard to improve upon.
Bunnaman played 18 games, 0.32, hard to imagine Thompson being worse.

Frost is the key player, which is why he was sent down, they want him to be NHL ready to play big minutes, 15+ a night (he played 13:41 two years ago).

On defense, Gus/Ghost were our most productive offensively at 0.87/0.82. Yandle should have no problem matching their offense (and lack of defense).
Ellis will be a huge upgrade.
Risto, I'm not that pessimistic, there will be an adjustment period, but what they're asking (basically a more physical version of Braun two years ago) is more suited to his skill set, take fewer chances, focus on defense, he's not a good offensive player so he's better off picking his spots.

 

[BiggE]

80 is a bit low. My guess is 90 and 6th in the Metro, 10th in the conference.

 

[DancingPanther]

Even in Hak's last year/Gordon they had 82 points (.500).

I think 80 points would get the whole coaching staff fired. It would be the worst season since 06/07.

What better benchmark to root for?

 

[DancingPanther]

People mistakenly believe one or both of the following:

1. This team isn't any worse
2. This team got or will be better

 

[FLYguy3911]

T-7 hours until the Wilson contract is finalized.

 

[kudymen]

Wooooo MSE GDT!



Eeeeeek AV hockey

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm you had to give us a full work week to look at this shit?

It's a Friday night and I'll be on call. I might end up subjecting myself to pure misery even though the Canucks are trash.

And what "shit" are you referencing? Choose your words wisely.

 

[dragonoffrost]

And what "shit" are you referencing? Choose your words wisely.

The shit we are going to have on our tv Friday night if we decide to torture ourselves.

 

[deadhead]

The shit we are going to have on our tv Friday night if we decide to torture ourselves.

Good save

MSE was probably contemplating exile to Siberia for you.
A friendly work camp in a temperate environment.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Good save

MSE was probably contemplating exile to Siberia for you.
A friendly work camp in a temperate environment.

It was the whole meaning of my post and if you don't think so check my tone since end of the last season. I'm done with this crapfest.

 

[deadhead]

What crap fest?
This team is substantially improved over last season, and probably more talented than two years ago once Frost and Hayes return (and definitely with a healthy Allison).

Ellis is a huge upgrade, we didn't have a 1st pair last year, Ellis is not just >>> Braun, Ghost, Gus in that role, Provorov is far more comfortable with a veteran on his right who can handle offensive responsibilities and is reliable.

Risto? Who knows? But it would be hard to be worse than Myers in terms of hockey IQ. More physical, not as fast, but big unknown is how he'll respond in a role more suited to his talent package - he won't be asked to do too much. It may take him a month or two to adjust and play within himself, with Sanheim as his partner, he doesn't have to do a lot with the puck. Also means a potential resign may be quite affordable, defense first guys rarely break the bank.

Hayes is another ??? However his game isn't as predicated on quickness like Giroux or Ghost, so he may not lose as much from injury.

Frost has a low bar, Patrick was awful in 2020-21, Laughton and G were adequate as centers in 2020.

It really comes down to Hart, not hard for Jones to match or exceed Elliott's performance the last two years, which is the real Hart?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

AV hockey is visual NyQuil.

 

[dragonoffrost]

What crap fest?
This team is substantially improved over last season, and probably more talented than two years ago once Frost and Hayes return (and definitely with a healthy Allison).

Ellis is a huge upgrade, we didn't have a 1st pair last year, Ellis is not just >>> Braun, Ghost, Gus in that role, Provorov is far more comfortable with a veteran on his right who can handle offensive responsibilities and is reliable.

Risto? Who knows? But it would be hard to be worse than Myers in terms of hockey IQ. More physical, not as fast, but big unknown is how he'll respond in a role more suited to his talent package - he won't be asked to do too much. It may take him a month or two to adjust and play within himself, with Sanheim as his partner, he doesn't have to do a lot with the puck. Also means a potential resign may be quite affordable, defense first guys rarely break the bank.

Hayes is another ??? However his game isn't as predicated on quickness like Giroux or Ghost, so he may not lose as much from injury.

Frost has a low bar, Patrick was awful in 2020-21, Laughton and G were adequate as centers in 2020.

It really comes down to Hart, not hard for Jones to match or exceed Elliott's performance the last two years, which is the real Hart?

SLURRRRRRRRRRRRRRP

Until it shows on the ice it's not changed

 

[renberg]

The key to the season will be allowing less GA. Hopefully better play on the back end will be able to make up for what will be less GF. Hayes’ injury along with Allison and Laczynski makes a big difference on offense. The club will not be able to roll four good lines. They’ll be lucky to roll two.
If the defense doesn’t stand up big time, the season is cooked. There is no way that Vigneault can do his usual thing with this roster and succeed. They’d have been lucky to do well even if everyone was healthy. Now with the injuries, exposing a weakness at center ice, the team is in trouble unless changes in game strategy occur. AV isn’t making those changes.

 

[deadhead]

AV has coached one of the best Flyer teams and one of the worst Flyer teams of the last decade.
Before COVID ended the season, the 2020 Flyers were easily the best I've seen since 2010.
So it's silly to assume how this season will turn out before it starts, the last 18 months since COVID ended the 2020 season have just been weird.

It could be a team implosion, it could be a team that regains its 2020 mojo.
That's the fun of sports - if we knew what will happen, why watch?